Which way should I go for paint correction? Pictures inside.

I would think that the DA kit that you linked in conjuction with a Griot's Garage would be able to take out 90% if not more of the damage in your paint.

The DA microfiber kit is VERY versatile!

It's hard to know without testing, but you may need a compound that is stronger. In that case, I would go with Meguiars M101.

WOW, not bad so far there dude!

One thing about the MF pads, especially with the Meg's DA MF Correction Compound (D300). It leaves a fantastic finish and fills really well.
Trying M101 with the MF pads will yeild amazing results, I think cutting a bit better than the D300 (without the fillers). It's possible to go to the LSP straight from D300 however, but for the deeper rids there 101 is going to give you the better working time and overall correction. The 101 though WILL NEED a polish afterwards to really bring it to life. IMHO though it finishes a LOT better than 105, WITH THE SAME PADS. Both will leave a slight haze sometimes, but that'll come out in the polish stage. Neither however finishes like D300! (But then again, it doesn't cut as well as they do.... catch 22 for sure.) ;)

One thing though is try whatever compoiund with at least three different cutting pads, say if you have orange, yellow and microfiber. Different results from all three for sure.
 
Haha too much trial and error that I don't want to spend the money on Lol. I'm hoping the Megs DA kit will suffice as is.
 
I'm sure you'll get great results with the system. The microfiber pads are awesome! I personally have never used d300 & d301. I already had gallons of 105 & 205 and can't really afford to buy much else as I am just starting my business. I really want to try the 101 though.

There are many ways to get to the same end result. I would go ahead and grab a couple foam polishing and finishing pads too. I have done some cars that the paint was too soft to finish nicely with microfiber pads. I recently did a black Tundra that a finishing polish and mf polishing pad marred the hell out of it. It saved me having some foam pads around too.

The next car I did was a red Saturn vue. I primed a MF cutting pad with what i thought was 105 to works some rids out. I blew out the pad and put a couple dots on it. Turns out I grabbed the wrong bottle. It was 205. I did a test spot and it turned out beautiful. I did the rest of the car with 205 on the mf cutting pad. It turned out pretty nice.

You just never know what'll do the trick. Its part of the frustration and also the fun of detailing. The best tip I have gained from reading here is slow arm movement. Extremely slow!
 
1) The most important thing to do is a test spot. Get one little area perfect, get your technique up to par, and then rinse and repeat all over the rest of the car.

Good advice. And here's a link to an article on my Article List that tells a person how and why to do a Test Spot...



How To Do a Test Spot
(and why it's so important)



I thought there was a backing pad? I'll deff have to look into that.

The Meguiar's Kits on Autogeek.net all come with the correct backing plate for the MF pads.


Meguiar's Microfiber DA Correction System Kits



It's also a good idea to get a backing plate that has hook material matched to the loop material used for the pads. I explain this in my how-to book. It's just that are are many types of hook-n-loop and while most will mesh and work together, some won't or won't attach very strongly due to mis-match. I've seen people post about pads falling off backing plates because they are not "sticking" very well and this usually has to do with either,

  1. Worn out hooks
  2. Mis-matched hook-n-loop material
So I covered both of the above topics in my how-to book.


Here's a video on how to use their MF System.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhJYFLgIjhE&hd=1]Meguiars Microfiber DA Correction System - YouTube[/video]


:)
 
The best tip I have gained from reading here is slow arm movement. Extremely slow!


Correct. Slow arm movement for defect removal. Allow the combination of,

Pad
Abrasives
Oscillating/Rotating Action
Downward Pressure
TIME

To all have their "effect" on the paint and the "effect" is to take little bites out of the paint to in effect level it flat again.


I recommend anyone new to machine polishing to read my article below BEFORE actually starting instead of AFTER they run into an issue.

DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide


Tyler, age 15 removing swirls using a Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher
1965Plymouth035.jpg


When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.

Here's a list of the most common problems,

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.

2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.

3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.

4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.

5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.

6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.

7. Using too much product or using too little product.

8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.


Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.


2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.

Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,

"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"

But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.



3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.

Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.



4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.



5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.

Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.

This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.

Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.



6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.



7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.

Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.

Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.



8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,
  • Removed paint
  • Spent product

As these to things build up on the face of the pad they become gummy and this has a negative affect on pad rotating plus makes wiping the leftover residue on the paint more difficult. To maintain good pad rotation you want to clean your pad often and always wipe-off any leftover product residue off the paint after working a section. Never add fresh product to your pad and work a section that still has leftover product residue on it.


Pad Cleaning Articles

Why it's important to clean your pads often...

How to clean your foam pad on the fly

How to use the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer


Tyler, age 15 machine applying a paste wax using a Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher

1965Plymouth067.jpg


1965Plymouth071.jpg



:xyxthumbs:
 
Thanks Mike. Ive been watching tons of your videos. Buts its just soo much info at once and I forget what I seen after I ask a question then someone brings up a vid from you and I say "Oh yeah"...

Im going to buy the Lake Country pads, the 6 pack. What 6 pads would you guys recommend me getting? Im also getting their backing disc
 
Thanks Mike. Ive been watching tons of your videos. Buts its just soo much info at once and I forget what I seen after I ask a question then someone brings up a vid from you and I say "Oh yeah"...

Im going to buy the Lake Country pads, the 6 pack. What 6 pads would you guys recommend me getting? Im also getting their backing disc


Well the video does show and explain how to use the system from the guy that was behind the development of it.


As for foam pads, a good range would include,

3-4 orange for removing defects
2-3 white for polishing after removing defects
1-2 black or blue - you can use either of these to machine apply wax or apply by hand.


I'll get to your PM right now...

:)
 
I'm sure you'll get great results with the system. The microfiber pads are awesome! I personally have never used d300 & d301. I already had gallons of 105 & 205 and can't really afford to buy much else as I am just starting my business. I really want to try the 101 though.

... I have done some cars that the paint was too soft to finish nicely with microfiber pads. .... It saved me having some foam pads around too.

...I primed a MF cutting pad with what i thought was 105 to works some rids out.... Turns out I grabbed...205.

I did a test spot and it turned out beautiful. I did the rest of the car with 205 on the mf cutting pad. It turned out pretty nice.


Dude, you have gallons of 105 and not tried 101 yet? :eek:
Oh my..... do yourself a favor.... do NOT try 101 till those gallons are empty. Because if you do, those gallons will end up drying up and turning into bricks. ;)

Yup the MF pads are nice and sure do cut down the time needed. OTOH I'm not in a huge hurry and still like to work with foam whenever possible. Still need them for finishing for sure.

Good thing you ended up grabbing 205 that day. Never need to put more (cut) on the paint than you need. Remember the MF pads are adding quite a bit more cut from the get go.


Haha too much trial and error that I don't want to spend the money on Lol. I'm hoping the Megs DA kit will suffice as is.

Too much trial and error... seriously. You mean to do 2~3 test spots? I don't think so, but then again... that's just me. ;) Doing test spots gives you a very important "control" test that not only tells you what THAT car wants and needs but what ALL cars like it will likely work with down the road.

Sure it's easy to just hit everything with a MF pad and 105 but that is going to take of far more paint than a much less aggressive approach. Remember that every time you compound and polish the paint gets thinner. Having a totally polished out car is fan-freaking-tastic and what we all strive for. BUT..... you only get so many chances at *removing* paint. After its gone.... no amount of polishing is going to put a shine on it.

(Hence the explosion of 'coatings' that are on the market now that help preserve the paint finish.) Food for thought......

Cardaddy
 
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