Whos at fault?

California is the worst, trust me.
When I told my brother about getting pulled over the other day and getting off with a warning he was like Wow.

I didn't really sink in until he reminded me that that ticket for running a stop sign costs over $300. I could almost buy a freaking Rupes 21MK2 with that money! Lol.

And it's no joke, a few years ago I had to pay $220 for a simple seat belt ticket.. How crazy is that. Smh.
They try to find any reason to tax you over here.. Btw the cost for this water conservation act is getting really stupid. I might just have to start taking rinseless showers soon :p j/k


That's nuts man lol. Tickets here are pretty low. I think $80 for seatbelts $110 for reasonable speeding but can go up for how much over or the officers mood.
 
If that happened to me, I'd get out and tell both of them "ok, I don't want any part of this on my insurance, I don't want any part of this at all! Since he hit you and caused this whole situation to happen, how about we forget I was even here and you can both agree that all your damage was caused by 1 car, his car rear ending you"

Then I'd go away and fix my own car. Hopefully the damage isn't too bad, but I'll live.

But if the damage to your car is significant, then I don't know I guess you might stick around and get involved. But I doubt you'll be at fault. But you never know, which is why I would rather not be in the report.

Call your insurance company and ask them the same question. I've done it before and they had no problem with me asking an anonymous question like that, even though it was pretty obvious I was asking about my own situation.

Where I live, if you got caught leaving the scene of an accident, that's a FELONY
 
That's the way it is here too. Less than 50% at fault and you don't pay anything. You have to be careful though. Did you take pictures at the accident scene?


I didn't take any pictures, but how it works here the police come and file an accident report and the guy admitted exactly what happened. We were both stopped at a red light, I was in the right turn lane he was in the straight lane and he decided he wanted to be in the right turn lane so he just pulled into it without looking.
 
Where I live, if you got caught leaving the scene of an accident, that's a FELONY


Well there's a big difference between situations. For example busting a hit & run and fleeing the scene would and should result in the all caps "FELONY" you're referring to...

I did not, nor would I ever do that. Besides you'd have to be pretty stupid to even attempt that these days with everyone having a camera phone and everyone loving to snap pics of everything.

Try to apply a bit of common sense.
 
What I am understanding is B hit A and You then were hit by A becuase B caused an accident? I think A would be at fault in this case depending on the state. B would probably get screwed for following too closely and a would then probably get the same. I am not a lawyer or cop but this is what I have heard from others depending on the state
 
NY is "no fault" state so no one is at fault. Its a beautiful thing (NOT)


This is with respect to medical coverage. If there is an injury you go back to your own auto insurance policy for payment for your medical bills, regardless of fault, hence the term "no fault"

For the property damage, the individual who causes the rear end collision is responsible for the damage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
In Ohio driver A would be at fault because he entered your lane, regardless of reasoning.

:iagree: Driver "A" failed to maintain control, maintain lane, (even though driver "B" knocked him out of it).

I must confess .......

My insurance did go up a bit.

Sorry for the long post but yea.. Lets hope her little dent will appear on the carfax and make the future owner feel so much better about their used car purchase.

Yeah... I'll confess as well. I'd have called the cops too.

Driving without insurance, is what cost HER. It's a shame the courts don't make those that do it pay the other property owners out of pocket expenses, in addition to high fines.
It also cost her insurance company. Which by default... cost all the policyholders of that company. The company could have subrogated and taken you to court for their cost. (And may still as I've seen them do it 2~3 years out... but I doubt it at this point.) Had you had insurance at the time, (and for some reason they'd not paid) they WOULD have subrogated against your insurance carrier immediately!

It's a shame for her that by no fault of her own "her little dent" may indeed show up on a CARFAX report and end up costing her money yet again down the road. Somebody sure showed her.

This is with respect to medical coverage. If there is an injury you go back to your own auto insurance policy for payment for your medical bills, regardless of fault, hence the term "no fault"

For the property damage, the individual who causes the rear end collision is responsible for the damage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:whs::dblthumb2:

"No Fault" has nothing to do with physical (crash damage) liability. It was originally devised to help clear out the backlog in small claims courts, and individuals having to file suit because of a vehicle accident just to get their medical bills paid.

Not that it's stopped the personal injury lawyers from getting rich over the last 25~30 years. :rolleyes: (He says knowing his daughter's last job was as a paralegal, as a case manager, for a downtown law firm.) ;)
 
So I've always been told that if you rear end someone, its generally always your fault for various reasons.

So lets say there are 3 drivers. You, Driver A, driver B

Driver B hits Driver A and Driver A car is knocked into your lane

your car then hits Driver A car from the sudden accident Involving Driver B hitting Driver A

Are you at fault for hitting driver A?

How would this scenario play out?

Questions like this are exactly why I hated algebra :dblthumb2:
 
NY is "no fault" state so no one is at fault. Its a beautiful thing (NOT)

Let me reply to this in a good order...

NY is NOT a no-fault state when it comes to property damage. At most this applies _only_ to injuries. NY's negligent law is Pure Comparative, which means a person is only responsible to another for the amount of their own negligence in the matter. For example, if you were 42% negligent, then you only owe the other person 42% of their damages.
 
With your very limited details, in the state of MI, with witnesses or course, driver B is on the hook as they're the only one who will get a ticket. Will be up to the police and possibly a judge.

But, this depends on insurance as well. With AAA, as long as I'm not 51%(or more)at fault, I pay nothing.

In MI you would be incorrect as MI _is_ a true no-fault state when it comes to auto liability (which is very odd). An innocent party can only collect up to their deductible from another person for their property damage.
 
If that happened to me, I'd get out and tell both of them "ok, I don't want any part of this on my insurance, I don't want any part of this at all! Since he hit you and caused this whole situation to happen, how about we forget I was even here and you can both agree that all your damage was caused by 1 car, his car rear ending you"

Then I'd go away and fix my own car. Hopefully the damage isn't too bad, but I'll live.

That may work out. However, what may also happen (and trust me... it happens all of the time) is that the other people get you tag number and then file a police report. You then have no input on what shows up on that report. Granted you can deny and give your version after the fact but now you've created that "door" and left it open. By law you would be required to exchange contact and insurance information. If everyone agreed you did not need to do this, fine. But again, you may find that they file a report later on, include your tag number and might make up some story. If someone else hit your vehicle and caused you a loss, why would you just leave? This opens some questions later on if they want to change their version of the accident.
 
So I've always been told that if you rear end someone, its generally always your fault for various reasons.

So lets say there are 3 drivers. You, Driver A, driver B

Driver B hits Driver A and Driver A car is knocked into your lane

your car then hits Driver A car from the sudden accident Involving Driver B hitting Driver A

Are you at fault for hitting driver A?

How would this scenario play out?

Most likely B is going to be 100% liable. Someone _may_ attempt to state something like driver A could have maintained control of their vehicle and avoided you or that you could have avoided A if you were paying attention but it's highly unlikely anything like that would stick. Even if Driver B tries to pin some liability on Driver A, it would not matter to you as 100% liability still goes against them collectively. In some state something called Joint and Several may make that a moot point as well.
 
@Cardaddy. From my perspective and knowing how bad that accident could've been in comparison to what actually happened I thank God for the little damages we survived through. I could've killed her and her passenger, along with myself if I had reacted 1 sec. later. That accident happened on the freeway and her car was at a complete stop while I was traveling between 45-50mph. Think about how bad that could've been.

A dumb carfax report and anykind of fuss over a minimal amount of money is peanuts compared to being responsible for someone's death in a true to life automobile accident. That's why I'm thankful to God for allowing me and the other occupants involved to see another day.
 
And I allowed her to call the cops, take a couple dozen photos of every last bit of my car, my drivers license, my face, everything even though it was way overboard what she was doing. I didn't try to intimidate or prevent her from doing what she wanted to do at all.

Even the cop mentioned that he was surprised at how civil the situation was and how I did a rare thing by even still being there. It took the police nearly an hour to show up. Worst day possible.
 
@Cardaddy. From my perspective and knowing how bad that accident could've been in comparison to what actually happened I thank God for the little damages we survived through. I could've killed her and her passenger, along with myself if I had reacted 1 sec. later. That accident happened on the freeway and her car was at a complete stop while I was traveling between 45-50mph. Think about how bad that could've been.

A dumb carfax report and anykind of fuss over a minimal amount of money is peanuts compared to being responsible for someone's death in a true to life automobile accident. That's why I'm thankful to God for allowing me and the other occupants involved to see another day.

And I allowed her to call the cops, take a couple dozen photos of every last bit of my car, my drivers license, my face, everything even though it was way overboard what she was doing. I didn't try to intimidate or prevent her from doing what she wanted to do at all.

Even the cop mentioned that he was surprised at how civil the situation was and how I did a rare thing by even still being there. It took the police nearly an hour to show up. Worst day possible.

Well... it's good knowing that you have a perspective that it could have been VERY bad.
Although from what it sounds like, you're saying it was serious.. "could've killed her and her passenger, along with myself if I had reacted 1 sec. later." and with that... everyone's lives could have changed forever more. Yours, theirs, or perhaps both of the families having lost their loved ones.

Imagine how that could have turned out, with a family facing the loss of a loved one, and no insurance to protect them.... from what could easily have cost them everything, including the roof over their heads?

Insurance is just something that is instinctive, inherent, immanent, even hard-wired into vehicle ownership. It's also something that I've paid out the ying-yang for since I was 16, and continue to over 40 years later. I'd like to think there is a better way, but truthfully there isn't.

I too thank the good Lord that I've survived, and been brought home safe. It's not always our fault, but we have to protect ourselves, and our families even when others are having a bad day.

I've seen, ALL TO CLOSELY far too many horrific accident scenes, as well as the aftermath it takes on those involved. Having owned a towing business for 18 years, (retired the last 12) I've been up close and personal with far too much of it, and have seen far too many body parts (and body tissue) left in vehicles after just a moment in time went wrong.

I've been much too involved with FAR TOO MANY insurance companies for my own good through the years as well. Was even the insurance committee chairman for the state towing and recovery association once upon a time. ;)

I don't really think you "allowed" her to call the police, and all the rest she did. (Although taking your photo was a bit much... and more than you had a legal responsibility to do.)

She was doing the best she could, under the circumstances. I'm sure upon hearing you didn't have insurance she was fairly upset. (As would anyone be in her position.) Perhaps she didn't realize the saving grace that nobody was hurt. After all... people do tend to get a bit scatter brained at the scene. I agree with you though that a vehicle is the LEAST of our worries at such a time. That however doesn't negate the need to protect that asset, or perhaps just overlook it for the time being. (Knowing that coverage was coming, just not that day, at that moment in time.) It is those moments in time that that pesky insurance premium takes quite a bit of the worry away however. :D

The rest however, license number, vehicle photos, address, phone numbers, exchanging driver information et al. All that is required by law. Not doing so, can be up to a 6 month license suspension. (It's 30 days here, minimum.) Funny though, that even though the law requires drivers to exchange information, including license number, contact number(s), and insurance information (and is punishable as a misdemeanor on first offense) that when the police shows up, you will hardly EVER get a cop to let you copy the other drivers information off of his report. You can tell the cop you need it, but he'll just ignore you every time.
I mean... :doh: he already has it all, right there.
You don't even have to waste his time anymore writing it all down... just take a photo and be done with it. Anyhow... drivers ARE REQUIRED to exchange information, period.

If there is one thing that smart phones are good at these days however that would be that they are a FANTASTIC tool for gathering the proper information, as well as submitting claims, on the spot even, including GPS data and photos (with most carriers having apps). Although, truth be told... they CAUSE more accidents than anything else that has been introduced into the drivers care over the last decade with drivers getting distracted and such. :eek:

The fact that you stayed "on scene" waiting on the police shows that you realize you were a part of the accident, and legally required to, (that's a good thing). ;) Also shows that you didn't intend to run away from that obligation. (Again... that's a GOOD thing!) :xyxthumbs:

I had an accident one time, in a GMC 6500, with a 19.5' rollback on it, hit a lady sitting still. Didn't total her car out, but scared me a LOT more than it did her. Thing is, I'd just picked the truck up from the shop, they'd done injector, and injector pump work on it. I didn't make it a mile down the road and it was cutting out on top of a major interchange we call spaghetti junction, some 80 plus feet up in the AIR! :eek:

So I jumped off the expressway, took a left on the bridge, and it stalled out, causing me to lose my brakes!!!!! The lady was sitting at a red light and I couldn't get stopped, it was hit her or go into incoming traffic. I got it almost stopped, slammed it in first, popped the E-brake, but was still going about 10mph when I hit her (and I had my car on the bed) weighing in at around 20,000 pounds loaded! Scared the living CHIT outta' me!

Then when I got out and went running up to see if she was OK, she had her 3 grandchildren in the back seat. OMG... I literally fell down on the road and started praying then and there. We had a prayer meeting I'm telling ya'. :) She was OK, the kids were OK, but all I could imagine was hurting someone's children. Then the thought of losing a massive court case, costing a small fortune hit me between the eyes. Guess that prayer meeting helped, because she said it was all good, we stayed in touch, and my insurance took care of her perfectly.

OTOH... the dealership that was SUPPOSED to fix my truck got a BIG bill from me! They had to eat the initial repair cost, as well as pay for a new bumper for my truck.

Imagine had I not been insured that day?:eek:

That's what I suppose I'm getting at. Just that lil' thing where you didn't have insurance that buggered things a bit that day. It could have been sooooooo much worse. :dunno:

I'll never, EVER drive anything that isn't covered, and covered WELL. Heck, I keep full coverage, 300K on all my cars... even my 99 Caddy (that was my Dad's) that I don't drive 100 miles a year. Could drop it, as well as not put a tag on it, but when I *want* to drive it, I need to know that I've got enough coverage to pay for anything that I hit (God forbid... and I've not hit anything since that day in the big GMC back at least 17 years ago), plus... I can replace it for what it's worth.

OTOH... don't get me started on "minimum coverage" and the agencies that sell that whole can of worms. Strange how states can require you to have insurance, but NOT require you to have ENOUGH insurance. Which... means you need coverage to pay for not just your own vehicle, but enough to cover the FULL cost of most vehicles you'll crash into these days. I mean, $25,000 property damage doesn't cover squat these days, (and you can get LESS) so what is someone to do when they get plowed into by a big pickup or SUV and they are driving a fairly new vehicle that was $40,000+ new?

They're stuck paying the difference, that's what. :(

Yup... that also drives up insurance premiums.:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
@Cardaddy. Hey man thanks for understanding. I Really appreciate it. I had felt bad because I knew there was alot more to the story but couldn't really fit it all in without it turning into a novel.. And therefore tried to keep it as short as possible, which is hard for me because I normally tend to talk too much as it is. Lol.

I read every word of your reply.
And you're right, I dropped the ball by not having the insurance at the time.. Earlier that week I had told myself it was on my to do list by the weekend, but then that happened. For what it's worth, I learned my lesson.

And you're right about cell phones being a dangerous distraction on the road. I myself once drove my car going about 35mph. on a busy street right into the back of a Ford Explorer that was stopped at a red light because I was reaching for my ringing phone, which had slipped out of my pocket and onto the floor behind me. I looked up and oh chit I hit him hard!

We pulled right into the gas station and I couldn't even open my door to get out. I crawled out of the passenger door and the other driver was just shaking his head and said "wow your car got eff'd up"!
I looked at my car and felt so bad I couldn't believe it. I also couldn't believe that absolutely nothing happened to his Explorer. Nothing. I guess his rear bumber held up and knocked my cars teeth in. Just another time when I look back and say wow if that car would've been a Honda Civic with a family inside it could've been a total disaster.

I consider myself a good driver but somehow I've been involved in 6 collisions in my life and they've all pretty much been my fault. Smh.
I've owned 5 Cadillacs and crashed 4 of them.

Here's a picture of my 92' Eldorado before I crashed into that Ford Explorer. This I bought this car used w/only 62,000 miles from the dealer in mint condition. Nicest car I've ever had.

View attachment 39302

Of my 5 Cadillacs, the only 1 I never crashed was the other 92' I bought and drove for 6 months before I used it as a donor car to fix that white 1. My friends rib me because I end up crashing all Cadillacs. Lol.

I've also totaled a Honda Accord beater [damn I wish I still had that car, it was amazingly reliable] and I hydroplaned on the freeway during a storm and totaled my ex gf's Toyota Camry. [us people here in LA don't know how to drive in the rain]

But through all that I thank God that I never hurt anyone else and survived relatively safe and sound.

Sorry for the long post, but I owed you 1 because your was long as heck too:p lol.

Btw do you have any pix of your 99' Cadillac? I'm interested in checking it out. Thx again for the reply.
 
Back
Top