Wool Pad on DA?

[Heisenberg]

Getting some conflicting information during my research online about this so I thought I'd ask.

I use a GG6(newest gen) for my correction work. I get good results most of the time using MF pads, but I keep seeing much better results(fewer steps with less marring) from people using TB Black wool pads on the Flex 3401. I know there are other factors that go into this, but would these pads work well on my DA, or is the forced rotation the key to why they work so well on the Flex?

I've seen information saying the TB pads are more durable and easy to care for, and do not hold heat like MF pads - but I've also seen the opposite said. I've also seen a couple users say you can burn paint easy with the wool pads on even a DA like the Griots, which struck me as odd, and then I saw that someone said that wool doesn't work well on DAs at all(which is why we have the foamed wool LC pads now?)

Anyone care to set the record straight for me? The Flex is not a viable option for me at the moment but if I can get some increased performance with a pad change I'd love to give it a shot.

 

[VISITOR]

i know it doesn't get talked about much around here, but the surbuf pads offer a good amount of correction. of course, it most cases it will need to be followed up to clean up any micro-marring left behind...

do a google search... ' Surbuf Pad paired with M105 and PC is a defect killer! '

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Long fiber pads don't work well with tools like the Griot's Garage, Porter Cable and Meguiar's dual action polishers.

The fibers just kind of wiggle back and forth. With a direct drive tool the fibers lay down in a single direction where they will then cut the paint as well as work the abrasives against the paint.

I think Todd Helme wrote the best explanation as to why long fiber pads don't work well on dual action polishers. Maybe someone can dig it up?

This is also why Lake Country introduced the thin, short fiber version of the Purple Foamed Wool Pad and this is also why Meguiar's and other companies microfiber pads use a short fiber length as well as the Surbuf pads.

 

[BlackHawk]

Ive gotten my PC with a foamed purple wool pad to do some crazy spot correction work. It works 10x better at removing deep defects compared to using a microfiber cutting pad. Dont believe me? Try it yourself you'll be impressed

 

[allenk4]

10x better?

Which specific PFW with which PC?

Faster Cut?

Better Finish?

Costs Less?

Pad lasts longer?

 

[dpk20x]

Long fiber pads don't work well with tools like the Griot's Garage, Porter Cable and Meguiar's dual action polishers.

The fibers just kind of wiggle back and forth. With a direct drive tool the fibers lay down in a single direction where they will then cut the paint as well as work the abrasives against the paint.

I think Todd Helme wrote the best explanation as to why long fiber pads don't work well on dual action polishers. Maybe someone can dig it up?

This is also why Lake Country introduced the thin, short fiber version of the Purple Foamed Wool Pad and this is also why Meguiar's and other companies microfiber pads use a short fiber length as well as the Surbuf pads.

Mike I know the Tuf Buff wool pads aren't sold at Autogeek so I'm not sure how familiar you may be with them. I'm not sure if they would be considered long fiber or not. I just measured mine. Looks like the fibers are about an inch long.

And they actually work pretty good on the Rupes 15. I did a little work on my brothers car not too long ago. Didn't get as much out as I would have liked but you can see how jacked up the paint was.







And to be honest I was thinking the TB pads could work better on the GG6 as it has more power than the Rupes. I still have a few more panels to compound on my brothers car and I was gonna try out the GG6 next time to see how it worked out.

 

[hernandez.art13]

I didn't take any 50/50 shots or before pictures and just took some quick after pictures with my cellphone after reading this thread. So sorry, but these side view mirrors were in really bad shape.

I used:

TUF Buf 3"
Lake Country 3" polishing pad
FG400
M205
IPA
Opti Coat





(sorry for the ugly cell pictures)

I am still not sure how I feel about MF pads, I really do like Wool pads on a DA when trying to get really good cut. I then just use a foam polishing pad for the polishing stage.

I just used the 6" Lake Country Hybrid wool pad on my Rupes with FG400, to correct 3000 grit DA sanding marks on my entire hood and worked great. I love that combo to remove sanding marks.

 

[teacherray]

I have a Porter Cable and the LC 4" purple wool pads and have good results with Meg's 105. It isn't as good or fast as my Makita rotary but I don't worry about sling, burning or swirls either. I have noticed the purple pads don't seem to last long under heavy use. When I use them it is at 5.5 to 6 with a lot of pressure at first, slow movement and ease up to finish. One or two cars and they begin to be less effective.

 

[allenk4]

dpk20x

Under those door handles looks brutal

Were you able to get those out by hand

 

[dpk20x]

dpk20x

Under those door handles looks brutal

Were you able to get those out by hand

I haven't tried to get those out yet. Ran out of time and energy the other day. I'll try to hit them with some M101 one of these days mainly just to see if I can remove them. Figure if I can fix those I can fix just about anything rops:

 

[Heisenberg]

Long fiber pads don't work well with tools like the Griot's Garage, Porter Cable and Meguiar's dual action polishers.

The fibers just kind of wiggle back and forth. With a direct drive tool the fibers lay down in a single direction where they will then cut the paint as well as work the abrasives against the paint.

I think Todd Helme wrote the best explanation as to why long fiber pads don't work well on dual action polishers. Maybe someone can dig it up?

This is also why Lake Country introduced the thin, short fiber version of the Purple Foamed Wool Pad and this is also why Meguiar's and other companies microfiber pads use a short fiber length as well as the Surbuf pads.

That's the kind of explanation I was looking for, appreciated.

do a google search... ' Surbuf Pad paired with M105 and PC is a defect killer! '

That gives me some good reading material, thanks.

I didn't take any 50/50 shots or before pictures and just took some quick after pictures with my cellphone after reading this thread. So sorry, but these side view mirrors were in really bad shape.

I used:

TUF Buf 3"

I am still not sure how I feel about MF pads, I really do like Wool pads on a DA when trying to get really good cut. I then just use a foam polishing pad for the polishing stage.

Cool - this sums up my plan of action if I got some positive feedback so I'm glad to see someone else has tried it. What machine were you using with those 3 inch pads? The one pictured doesn't look familiar to me unless it's an earlier gen PC because it's so light grey. Thanks everyone! :xyxthumbs:

 

[hernandez.art13]

That's the kind of explanation I was looking for, appreciated.



That gives me some good reading material, thanks.



Cool - this sums up my plan of action if I got some positive feedback so I'm glad to see someone else has tried it. What machine were you using with those 3 inch pads? The one pictured doesn't look familiar to me unless it's an earlier gen PC because it's so light grey. Thanks everyone! :xyxthumbs:

I was using the Porter Cable.

Just like to add that it is also a good idea to listen to what other pros say btw. Especially Mike Phillips.

I just knew this combo worked since I've used it before. So do test spots and if your going to use the 3" setup and always check for heat build up, heat builds up on a DA with a 3" bp pretty fast. Also, always check with whatever combo you are using. Machine, BP, Pad, etc...

and all the machines can burn paint with improper technique, skill and knowledge. That is a myth that should be put to rest. (The PC can't burn paint myth)

I haven't tried the PC with a bigger wool pads btw, just a 3" tuf buf for PC and 6" Lake Country Hybrid Wool Pad for my Rupes 21

IMO

 

[Heisenberg]

Mike I know the Tuf Buff wool pads aren't sold at Autogeek so I'm not sure how familiar you may be with them. I'm not sure if they would be considered long fiber or not. I just measured mine. Looks like the fibers are about an inch long.

And they actually work pretty good on the Rupes 15. I did a little work on my brothers car not too long ago. Didn't get as much out as I would have liked but you can see how jacked up the paint was.

And to be honest I was thinking the TB pads could work better on the GG6 as it has more power than the Rupes. I still have a few more panels to compound on my brothers car and I was gonna try out the GG6 next time to see how it worked out.

The GG6 has more power than the Rupes? That is interesting. I know the Rupes has the significant increase in throw but thought more power was an additional feature.

I ordered a couple of 5'' TB wool pads last night. I figured $20 would be the cost of new MF pads anyway so trying it can't hurt. Those pictures you showed are very encouraging. Can you elaborate on your technique when using wool with a DA a little? Do I need to prime or use the pickup technique like you would with a rotary? Sorry for the barrage of questions.

 

[dpk20x]

The GG6 has more power than the Rupes? That is interesting. I know the Rupes has the significant increase in throw but thought more power was an additional feature.

I ordered a couple of 5'' TB wool pads last night. I figured $20 would be the cost of new MF pads anyway so trying it can't hurt. Those pictures you showed are very encouraging. Can you elaborate on your technique when using wool with a DA a little? Do I need to prime or use the pickup technique like you would with a rotary? Sorry for the barrage of questions.

Search forum member Richy's posting history. He has a video uploaded where he shows how he uses the TB pads. I believe it's entitled Durango scratch repair.. Or something along those lines.

Pretty much use 2 or 3 small dots of product. Spread it over your working area and work it till the product flashes and there's almost nothing to wipe off. Blow the pad out with compressed air between sections.

That's one reason I really like these pads, you use less product then the MF pads because you don't have to prime it.

 

[Heisenberg]

Richy's work is what made me want to see if these pads are that good. His recs for stuff like 505 on tires have been right on the money so far. I'll take a look at that video.

That sounds like what I'm looking for. Thanks for the tips!

 

[dpk20x]

No problem man. Good luck! Keep us posted.

If they work well with the GG6 I may just have to sell my Rupes and buy a Flex lol.

 

[primo spaghetti]

tuf buf + 3401 = awesome!

 

[Heisenberg]

Update: Used the tuf buf pads on my GG6 to clean up some touch up areas and scratches. They work extremely well and cut very hard. They removed 2k grit sanding scratches with ease. They did leave significant micromarring(on black paint, what do you expect) but that finished up nicely with some Reflect.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I used:

TUF Buf 3"

Just to comment...

When I posted about how traditionally wool pads don't work well on Porter Cable style dual action polishers I was thinking and typing in the context of larger pads. For example instead of using a 5.5" foam pad using a 5.5" wool pad or larger. In this context I don't think they work well for doing grunt work as it's too much to ask for the PC to keep the pad rotating.

Now if you move down to a 3" wool pad, then like a 3" foam pad, due to the dramatic decrease in surface area then that would probably rotate well.

It's all about pad rotation when trying to remove defects. Removing defects means removing paint and paint is removed best when a pad is rotating against the surface not just vibrating or jiggling.

I asked Eric Dunn at Lake Country about the black Tuff Buff pads and he's aware of them and told me all there's nothing unique about them it's just the wool is died black.

The description of these pads on their website talks about

The natural fibers of these pads are tapered with scales that cover each fiber shaft - nothing could be better for your paint finishes!

Just going by the words, the word scales doesn't imply anything positive in my mind's eye when it comes to working on scratch sensitive clearcoat paints.

We carry a 4" wool cutting pad from Lake Country and I use these all the time with rotary buffers buy my guess is they will work just as good as black wool pads.

I'll order a couple and find out if there's really anything special about these pads but Eric told me there wasn't and Eric knows more about buffing pads than anyone I've ever met.

:dunno:

 

[dpk20x]

Update: Used the tuf buf pads on my GG6 to clean up some touch up areas and scratches. They work extremely well and cut very hard. They removed 2k grit sanding scratches with ease. They did leave significant micromarring(on black paint, what do you expect) but that finished up nicely with some Reflect.

Awesome. Thanks for the update. What compound did you use?