Working With M105

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Blackdevil77

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I'm sorry if this was covered already. I recently detailed a car and corrected the paint using M105 and M205. M205 is a pleasure to work with, but the M105 was giving me a hell of a time. I don't know if I was doing something wrong, but I feel like I remember reading somewhere of someone else having this problem as well. The working time of M105 seems to be REALLY low. It would drive out so unbelievably quick. Before it dried though, it would cut incredibly well. I had a spray bottle with some water in it and would spray that when it would begin to dry to extend the working time a little bit, but it only slightly helped. Any suggestions of what I should do in the future to make working with M105 a little easier?

I prime the pad with the product, as per Kevin Browns suggestion. It works well for the first section or 2, but after that and the bulk of the product comes out, it just dries out very, VERY quickly.
 
When I use it with my Tuf Buff pads, I get an incredibly long work time out of it. Less product is better for 105, not more. I did a video on using it if that interests you. PM me and I'll post it here.
 
oops, at least there is two video's to watch now.. :p
 
Blackdevil77 said:
The working time of M105 seems to be REALLY low.
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M105 is not designed to have a long working time. It is supposed to cut fast and doesn't require a long buffing cycle since the abrasive technology in M105 does not break down like traditional compounds. If you work the product too long the carrier solvents will dry out and you will cake up the pad with abraded paint residue and spent product. It is also important to work in small sections so the product does not dry out on the panel while you are working the pad/machine over another area.
 
If I have to use Meg's I switched over and started doing m100 and m205. I don't even use my m105 bottle snymore. M100 is so much better, user friendly and cuts amazingly well.
 
The foam pads I typically use with cutting compounds are open cell, and fairly large pores. These pads do not play well with full face priming. I start with a spritz of M34 Final Inspection depending on the climate, and four drops of M105 around the outside edge of the pad.

That's usually enough to get started. Three drops to reload, and the pad and product find it's "sweet spot" with moisture content.

It cuts very fast, but since it's so loaded with abrasive particles - is prone to dusting.

I also switched to M100. It behaves a lot more like Ultimate Compound in that it's very easy to use. I would say that it cuts just a bit harder. But they will dust some as well. I'll take that over a gummy, wet, clogged, caked pad any day.
 
GSKR said:
What pads are you using.
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I'm using the Meguiars microfiber cutting pads. I know they were designed to be used with D300, but I've seen many use them with 105 successfully.

richy said:
When I use it with my Tuf Buff pads, I get an incredibly long work time out of it. Less product is better for 105, not more. I did a video on using it if that interests you. PM me and I'll post it here.
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I don't use much 105 after I prime the pad with the product. That's the only instance I have to use quite a bit. After that, I usually use 2 dots of product, a little bigger than a pea.

Nicholas@Autowerx said:
M105 is not designed to have a long working time. It is supposed to cut fast and doesn't require a long buffing cycle since the abrasive technology in M105 does not break down like traditional compounds. If you work the product too long the carrier solvents will dry out and you will cake up the pad with abraded paint residue and spent product. It is also important to work in small sections so the product does not dry out on the panel while you are working the pad/machine over another area.
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I remember reading that but I didn't expect it to be this short. Working in a 2 by 2 area, it dries up after 2 passes, sometimes before I can even cross hatch the area.

idriveblackcars said:
If I have to use Meg's I switched over and started doing m100 and m205. I don't even use my m105 bottle anymore. M100 is so much better, user friendly and cuts amazingly well.
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I remember reading this as well. I'll give M100 a try. I was thinking of trying the 3M perfect-it compound as well, just to try a bunch of things.


Thank you for posting the videos!
 
Played with M105 a little more. It's definitely more user friendly when not as hot. When I used it at the time I made this thread, it was very hot and humid out. I'd prime the pad using the product, as per the KBM, put 3 drops of product on the pad, and the first section would be okay. After I went on to the 2nd and especially the 3rd section, I couldn't get more than 2 section passes out of the stuff without it drying out completely. And I was working in small sections (less than 2 by 2) With the lower temperature, and humidity, the stuff started drying out on the 4th section pass. A little spritz of water helped.

I wanna try the Wolfgang Uber compound. If the cut is the same, but it's easier to work with, I think it would probably be worth it. I've read good things on it. How do you guys think it compares to 105/101/100?
 
I haven't used any of the Megs compounds you listed but I would recommend trying Menzerna FG400, I think it's heavy cut 400 now or something like that. I have had incredible results using it. It has a lot of cut but finishes down really well. I can often get away with going right to a wax/sealant after it. You have to work it a little longer because of the diminishing abrasives, but the results are awesome. Also, FWIW, I had a sample of the WG Uber Compound and it is a good product too, but I give the edge the the Menz.
 
Blackdevil77 said:
Played with M105 a little more. It's definitely more user friendly when not as hot. When I used it at the time I made this thread, it was very hot and humid out. I'd prime the pad using the product, as per the KBM, put 3 drops of product on the pad, and the first section would be okay. After I went on to the 2nd and especially the 3rd section, I couldn't get more than 2 section passes out of the stuff without it drying out completely. And I was working in small sections (less than 2 by 2) With the lower temperature, and humidity, the stuff started drying out on the 4th section pass. A little spritz of water helped.

I wanna try the Wolfgang Uber compound. If the cut is the same, but it's easier to work with, I think it would probably be worth it. I've read good things on it. How do you guys think it compares to 105/101/100?
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I haven't used the Uber Compound, but it's formulated to PBMG specs by Menzerna, which you absolutely can't go wrong with.

I have Menzerna FG400, and It's by far one of the nicest products I've worked with. It uses agglomerated abrasives. These abrasives start out clumped together, and "diminish" into smaller particulates - effectively behaving like a non diminishing abrasive - if I'm understanding the technology correctly. While it cuts extremely well, it also finished like a polish, very much like I get with M100. I get much less dust with FG400 though.

The FG400 is also very nice on foam pads, which I prefer to microfiber in general. However, I've also enjoyed FG on microfiber too.

Menzerna went through a labeling/name change recently. I think it's called HC400, or something to that effect.

While Meguiar's M100, and M205 is my first choice, and usually gets the job done, I always take my Menzerna polishes with me on outcalls. I have the FG400 heavy cut compound, PF2500 which is a medium polish, and great for "one step" polishing situations, and SF4000 for the finishing. The SF4000 always leaves me with an incredible finish.

Using a machine like a Porter Cable 7424xp, I really like using the Menzerna polishes with Lake Country's Hydrotech pads.
 
MIsnowman said:
I haven't used any of the Megs compounds you listed but I would recommend trying Menzerna FG400, I think it's heavy cut 400 now or something like that. I have had incredible results using it. It has a lot of cut but finishes down really well. I can often get away with going right to a wax/sealant after it. You have to work it a little longer because of the diminishing abrasives, but the results are awesome. Also, FWIW, I had a sample of the WG Uber Compound and it is a good product too, but I give the edge the the Menz.
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dlc95 said:
I haven't used the Uber Compound, but it's formulated to PBMG specs by Menzerna, which you absolutely can't go wrong with.

I have Menzerna FG400, and It's by far one of the nicest products I've worked with. It uses agglomerated abrasives. These abrasives start out clumped together, and "diminish" into smaller particulates - effectively behaving like a non diminishing abrasive - if I'm understanding the technology correctly. While it cuts extremely well, it also finished like a polish, very much like I get with M100. I get much less dust with FG400 though.

The FG400 is also very nice on foam pads, which I prefer to microfiber in general. However, I've also enjoyed FG on microfiber too.

Menzerna went through a labeling/name change recently. I think it's called HC400, or something to that effect.

While Meguiar's M100, and M205 is my first choice, and usually gets the job done, I always take my Menzerna polishes with me on outcalls. I have the FG400 heavy cut compound, PF2500 which is a medium polish, and great for "one step" polishing situations, and SF4000 for the finishing. The SF4000 always leaves me with an incredible finish.

Using a machine like a Porter Cable 7424xp, I really like using the Menzerna polishes with Lake Country's Hydrotech pads.
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I think I remember reading that the Menzerna FG400 and Wolfgang Uber Compound is basically the same stuff, just with very slight differences that make the Wolfgang version a little easier to work with. They both seem like great products. The Wolfgang stuff is a bit pricey, though.

dlc95, what do you like more about the M100/M205 combo over the Merenza/Wolfgang stuff?

M205 I would probably still use. I absolutely love that stuff, it's extremely user friendly and great to work with. M105 seems to have fantastic potential, it's just very picky and finicky. Haven't tried M100 or M101 yet.
 
I played with M105 for a long time and never really got the hang of it. M100, FC400, Sonax Cutmax are all really good options. M100 is my go to when using wool or Microfiber pads. it will dust more but it doesn't build up in the pad like the "wet" compounds do.
 
Blackdevil77 said:
I think I remember reading that the Menzerna FG400 and Wolfgang Uber Compound is basically the same stuff, just with very slight differences that make the Wolfgang version a little easier to work with. They both seem like great products. The Wolfgang stuff is a bit pricey, though.

dlc95, what do you like more about the M100/M205 combo over the Merenza/Wolfgang stuff?

M205 I would probably still use. I absolutely love that stuff, it's extremely user friendly and great to work with. M105 seems to have fantastic potential, it's just very picky and finicky. Haven't tried M100 or M101 yet.
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The Megs products have a different user experience on most paints. Probably my favorite thing about them - aside from their performance on the paint is how easily they wipe off. On sticky paints in hot, humid environments I'll take Menzerna, but anything else, the Megs will work.

I also like the idea and the practice of not needing to run an abrasive set through an entire diminishing sequence. Sometimes all I need is a pass couple passes of M205, and the gloss is there!

I also like how easy the Megs products clean away from the pad. I knock the compound off with a brush, and wipe the Polish off with a towel.
 
dlc95 said:
The Megs products have a different user experience on most paints. Probably my favorite thing about them - aside from their performance on the paint is how easily they wipe off. On sticky paints in hot, humid environments I'll take Menzerna, but anything else, the Megs will work.

I also like the idea and the practice of not needing to run an abrasive set through an entire diminishing sequence. Sometimes all I need is a pass couple passes of M205, and the gloss is there!

I also like how easy the Megs products clean away from the pad. I knock the compound off with a brush, and wipe the Polish off with a towel.
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I think that was my main problem with the M105. It was very hot and humid. On my second section pass, it would dry up and be like cement on the paint, it was unbelievably hard to remove. And once I did remove it, there were still swirls left, 2 section passes weren't enough. I'll try it again when it cools down. I guess it was just the wrong product for the conditions I was in.
 
Blackdevil77 said:
I think that was my main problem with the M105. It was very hot and humid. On my second section pass, it would dry up and be like cement on the paint, it was unbelievably hard to remove. And once I did remove it, there were still swirls left, 2 section passes weren't enough. I'll try it again when it cools down. I guess it was just the wrong product for the conditions I was in.
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Yes, that very disheartening to experience. Some people add a drop of M205 to their pad to extend the cut. M100 has less of this phenomenon occurring, but still does in certain situations. Same with M205. At the "outer egdes" of my buffing trail, M205 will sometimes deposit itself there, not able to wipe off with normal pressure of the microfiber towel. I can usually finesse my pattern where that won't happen, but it is an inconvenience.

With Menzerna, It has a distinct filmy lubricant where the buffing occurs. It's much thicker than that of meguiar's. It seems the result, is that the abraded paint, and spent abrasives have somewhere to retreat - in the lubricant. So, rather than depositing the residue in a hard deposit, the oily film, and all the spent residue is easily wiped away from the surface. I've never had FG400, PF2500, or SF4000 deposit itself on any kind of paint, in any reasonable buffing climate.

However, in colder climates, I like Meguiar's because it has a more lucid consistency, where the cold can have an adverse effect on the lubricants in Menzerna polishes. That being said, the Menzerna still works, and performs admirably. You just might find the need to use a little more product, or spend some time wiping the oily residue off. Still different than a hard, cement like bond to the paint.
 
Here is my Menzerna kit. I use Duragloss sealants after polishing with them, so they all stay together in this lunch bag. The extra bottle of PF2500 stays on the outside as I use it most often.

They currently aren't selling the 16oz bottles anymore, but the 8oz is available. Considering how concentrated these products are, you can get a lot done with the 8oz bottles.
 
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