Your thoughts on vehicle service maintenance

[Bill D]

I buy my Honda filters in bulk from Amazon

 

[oneheadlite]

That was great, thank you so much, excellent advice. I used to change the oil in my 2005 Mazda 3 religiously, and it got me to 269k. I was trying for 300k, and it would have happened, but it was starting to rust and I was getting REAL tired of driving a manual car for basically all of my life.

Thoughts on synthetic vs conventional as a choice? I'm assuming synthetic is always better?

Also, my current car has one of these GDI things and I keep hearing stories of carbon buildup that eventually ruins the engines. Is that a farce?

I would just go full synthetic since it seems like conventional oil has gotten so expensive lately, especially at the low mileage you're at. Old wives tale used to be if you took an old motor that ran conventional and switched to synthetic, the synthetic oil is so slick it would leak past seals and gaskets. I've just switched whatever I've owned over (back when I had cars that started with conventional) and never had any noticeable issue.

Carbon on GDI cars was definitely more of an issue on cars when it first started; seems like most manufacturers have made tweaks for it to be less of an issue.

Here again I feel good quality oil at low intervals help as it's the oil vapors that can collect on the valves/ports. Again, my car is an example that should have problems, but I've never had any appreciable build up.

I wouldn't worry about it, nor would I let anyone scare you with the need for snake oil induction treatments etc. In my experience if it's a car that's gonna get deposits, a little mist of cleaner (no matter how caustic) just ain't gonna touch it.

We check valves via borescope from the spark plug holes and do a walnut blasting if needed.

I’m a full synthetic oil guy but there are a ton of cars on the road that I sure get high mileage and use conventional motor oil. I think regular maintenance is more important than what is used. The only real thought I have is don’t switch back and forth though frankly that probably doesn’t have any scientific basis other than synthetic oil has more consistent particle sizes.

GDI is a direct injection engine and yes, there have been stories of carbon build up on the first versions of the engines but I think that has been addressed by most manufacturers by now. With newer vehicles it shouldn’t be an issue now but for older vehicles, you could consider an oil catch can but that bypasses emissions since it is now opening the engine to the atmosphere and allowing gases to escape. You may also want to regularly clean the engine with an oil additive to ensure any carbon deposits are removed. My mechanic has an oil cleaner he recommends that he puts in, runs the engine for 1,000 miles or so, and then does another oil change. I’d probably only recommend that if the engine shows signs of build up.

I'll go against the grain and vote against catch cans, though I know they're a thing. Most manufacturers have very close tabs on the air going in and out of the engine, and depending on the catch can design you can be setting yourself up to run into issues due to unmetered air.

As far as oil cleaners; for as low viscosity as they are (Think: thin solvent), I don't like to run the engine under load at all on the occasions we do use them. I think you also have to be careful the condition of the engine when you're starting - if you've got a sludged up engine and add a can of cleaner, you stand to knock a lot of stuff loose. Now you could relocate it to pick up screens/variable valve timing parts.

If you're starting with a low mileage car, you should be golden just keeping up on oil changes. :xyxthumbs:

 

[glen e]

Absolutely correct. I am retired general manager/owner of a dealership, and a manufacturer rep for Porsche , BMW and Kawasaki over my career. NEVER do anything more than what the owners manual tells you to do, dealerships make their money by “upselling” what the manual tells you is necessary. Tell this to every woman that you know, because dealerships love to prey on women who don’t read their manual.

 

[oneheadlite]

The other snipped I'd add regarding oil change frequency is something that I heard in (factory) training back in the day when BMW was stretching out their intervals (I was an Audi tech) - Remember that each oil change counts towards a car's environmental impact - so the less oil changes the manufacturer says a car needs, the better it looks Eco wise. And the manufacturer only needs it to make it through the warranty period...

(12 years at an independent BMW shop, I can assure you that while common rhetoric is that BMW stands for Brought My Wallet; when maintained at factory standards it's more like Barely Made Warranty)

 

[bbmach]

The other snipped I'd add regarding oil change frequency is something that I heard in (factory) training back in the day when BMW was stretching out their intervals (I was an Audi tech) - Remember that each oil change counts towards a car's environmental impact - so the less oil changes the manufacturer says a car needs, the better it looks Eco wise. And the manufacturer only needs it to make it through the warranty period...

(12 years at an independent BMW shop, I can assure you that while common rhetoric is that BMW stands for Brought My Wallet; when maintained at factory standards it's more like Barely Made Warranty)

Yep! And, most of the times those intervals are set by sales and marketing - as they can advertise a lower cost of ownership compared to the competition.

 

[glen e]

Bmw stretched out their intervals, then a few years later after their warranty records showed a deficiency, they rolled it back… I was with them at the time that it happened.

 

[oneheadlite]

Most excellent post - and IMHO right on the money. The only thing I would change is Napa Gold filters are made by Wix (at least for my applications), and are at the higher end of consumer filters...

...

I've heard a lot of positive things about wix filters. I just know if a car comes in leaking oil from the filter cap, or the filter insert is caving in on itself, it's about 90% that it's a chinese or polish filter from Napa or similar. I swear I've seen the gold branding on them.

I'll freely admit I only have a little window into the aftermarket since we only focus on BMW (+ mini) and Audi here. We nearly all Mann and Hengst filters, though mini's use purflux (never heard of them before 2nd gen mini's) and don't respond well to other filters.

 

[bbmach]

I've heard a lot of positive things about wix filters. I just know if a car comes in leaking oil from the filter cap, or the filter insert is caving in on itself, it's about 90% that it's a chinese or polish filter from Napa or similar. I swear I've seen the gold branding on them.

I'll freely admit I only have a little window into the aftermarket since we only focus on BMW (+ mini) and Audi here. We nearly all Mann and Hengst filters, though mini's use purflux (never heard of them before 2nd gen mini's) and don't respond well to other filters.

And I am certainly not doubting your personal experiences! Can't go wrong with OEM filters, and I guess that's why we all have our preferred brands. :xyxthumbs:

 

[Desertnate]

I tend to stick to the service schedule for the car when it comes to things like oil, belts/hoses, fluid flushes etc. Tire rotations often get done simply because the car is on the lift and it's easy to do the time. On my personal car I've done the rotations my self because I was always swapping between winter/summer/track wheels over the course of the year.

On a vehicle under warranty, I'll follow the schedule pretty strictly, and will still use it as a rough reference after expiration.

Who does the work varies. On my wife and daughter's cars we have a trusty family mechanic who has an independent shop. He does good work and his rates are reasonable. My cars were different because he isn't comfortable working on European performance cars. My VW and BMW both went to the dealership. Both VW and BMW have "value" pricing on basic items which is competitive with independent garages in my area. Another advantage is both dealerships offered loaner cars, which is a huge advantage. I won't have that with my current Subie, but they do offer weekend service, so I don't have to telework from their service lounge. I've used our local Honda dealer a couple of times too when our mechanic couldn't fit in my youngest daughter. The too have "value pricing" which is actually quite cheap and they are pretty fast too by getting you in exactly at your appointment time.

I did the oil changes myself for a while, and could still do it, because I have access to a "self repair" type shop where you rent a bay with a lift by the hour. The problem is they are always very busy and if you don't get in line 30 minutes before they open in the morning, the chances of getting a bay that day are slim. I just didn't want to put up with the hassle any more.

 

[vaca22]

Interesting you mention this about the dealer. I just got a text from my friend yesterday that the Hyundai dealer changed his timing belt twice within 15,000 miles with the second time the paperwork showed “customer requested”. I almost wonder if they even replaced it either time. That would add insult to injury.

I’m of the opinion that the oil and transmission fluids should be replaced regularly but other maintenance should go by interval (timing belts, filters) and check (brakes). On the transmission, I’ve switched to more often than what factory states, usually 25-30,000 miles since transmissions are so complex and expensive today. And oil changes are usually every 7,500 to 10,000 miles depending on if it’s me driving or my wife. More often for me since I drive more aggressively. And oil changes are always Mobil 1 Full Synthetic and I buy the 5 liter bottles at Walmart (cheapest) and take to my mechanic to use.

And finally, I have a mechanic I trust and use them for regular maintenance and not a car dealer unless it is warranty work.

I really wish this mechanic I have up the street did oil changes. I guess it's just not his thing.

 

[Desertnate]

And I am certainly not doubting your personal experiences! Can't go wrong with OEM filters, and I guess that's why we all have our preferred brands. :xyxthumbs:

I found by shopping around you can usually get the OEM's for around the same price as a good filter like Wix, so the choice was easy. No need to play the aftermarket lottery. For a while Toyota OEM filters came with a free crush washer, which was a nice touch. German cars are nice because Mann often is the filter maker for the OEM's, so you can go with them with confidence and not pay the mark up for the OEM's logo on the housing/box.

 

[vaca22]

The other snipped I'd add regarding oil change frequency is something that I heard in (factory) training back in the day when BMW was stretching out their intervals (I was an Audi tech) - Remember that each oil change counts towards a car's environmental impact - so the less oil changes the manufacturer says a car needs, the better it looks Eco wise. And the manufacturer only needs it to make it through the warranty period...

(12 years at an independent BMW shop, I can assure you that while common rhetoric is that BMW stands for Brought My Wallet; when maintained at factory standards it's more like Barely Made Warranty)

Not sure if these are his original words, but my father always used to say Big Money Waster or Break My Window.

Funny guy, my dad.

 

[Kamakaz1961]

No dealerships for me. Expensive. I have a trusted mechanic I have been going to for over 30 years and he rocks! Save a lot of money too!

 

[Bill D]

Yeah the first and only time my car went to a dealer was for a recall. You better believe I watched my car like a hawk.

 

[Desertnate]

No dealerships for me. Expensive. I have a trusted mechanic I have been going to for over 30 years and he rocks! Save a lot of money too!

I think a lot of pricing depends on the area, dealership brand, and the work being done.

Lately I've seen some brands like VW, BMW, and Honda offering special pricing on basic service tasks like oil changes, tire rotations, filter changes, and in BMW's case, they extend that cost model to things like plugs and brakes and fluid flushes too. Across the board, I found the pricing on filters to be silly and double what I pay ordering on-line and doing it myself. A lot of the basic work is actually the same price as an independent mechanic. In the case of plugs or brakes for the BMW, the dealership was actually less expensive...more so when you factor in the loaner car they give you for the day.

I'm not a huge fan of dealerships because the quality of the service staff is so inconsistent. In the past I avoided them like the plague. However, these days I've discovered a couple in my area that are pretty good. In the case of our Honda dealer, they are really quite good and REALLY fast and convenient. Going to my local mechanic I'd have to drop the car off the night before our appointment and I'll get it back at the end of the next day. At the dealer, they have appointments and a separate workflow for basic service. You show up at your appointment time and the car is usually done in about 30~60 minutes. On one occasion, they had completed their basic inspections and read all the OBD codes before I was done checking in!

All that said, if I need major repair work will I go to the mechanic or the dealership? Mechanic wins every time.

 

[bill walsh]

after being a mechanic for 55 years mostly working for fleet companies we all used oem oil & filters buying them direct from manufactures at fleet pricing

 

[Bdubbs]

I generally wrench on my own "toy cars". I'm super meticulous about things. But these are older cars. The newest one being a modded 03 cobra. Which I've installed a fuel system, clutch, and a different supercharger. Some stuff I just learn as I go.

Our newer daily vehicles we bring to the dealership because they have warranties. And the newer stuff makes it harder for the average person to work on.

But I generally agree, the newer stuff should be able to go longer on routine maintenance. Other than oil changes and other fluids.

I change the oil once a year on the mustangs regardless of miles. And generally the oil still looks new. They don't get a lot of miles.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

 

[Tasmania]

I can do a oil change and new oil filter plus a sump plug washer depends on the car.
Me and my brother would do his 2008 Wrx in under 1 hour plus it was good time to
hang out. Anything more than that and it's off to a mechanic but finding a good one
Is the hard job. I'd rather a independent mechanic than the big dealership where most
are just kid's.

 

[Don M]

I was introduced to Amsoil by an independent mechanic several years ago. When he retired, I couldn't find it anywhere except on line and I didn't want to become an 'independent dealer' in order to buy it just for my car(s), so I switched to Mobile 1.

When I got the Camaro in 2015, I knew I wanted to go back to Amsoil, so I searched on line for a local source. I found a shop in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio that used Amsoil exclusively. The Camaro needed an oil change and I was out of dealership 'freebies' from buying the car (driving 100 miles a day goes through oil changes fast LOL). So I decided to check out the shop, Gear Heads, it's called. I went in armed with a list of questions regarding known issues with the 5th gen Camaro and the V6 LFX engine it has and already knowing the answers from researching Camaro forums, I asked the questions while the car was getting the oil changed.

I asked about everything from what oil I should use to known timing chain issues (the timing chain issues were with the LLT V6 and had been corrected in the LFX engine, so my car wasn't affected). They were spot on with everything, including explaining to me that the timing chains were not an issue with the LFX, just the previous generation LLT. I asked about using the Amsoil Signature Series oil and they told me that unless the car had a dual filtration system, I would be wasting money on the more expensive oil, that the "XL Series" (Amsoil's 'mid grade' oil) would more than cover the needs of a car driven roughly 20K mile a year.

When they were done with the oil change, the mechanic came back with a shopping list of what was NOT wrong with the car and some SUGGESTIONS of future maintenance services I might want to think about - no pressure whatsoever to get them done. They even noted that one of my rims is different from the other three.

Since then, I have taken my mother's car, my brother's truck, my sister-in-law's car, each more than once for needed repairs and they all say how reasonable the cost was and how "nice" the owner is. My dad's Corvette is even slated to go in to repair all the things HE "fixed" on it so it will be a running/driving car again. Their business is geared toward Repeat Customers, not "Soak them and forget them." Their philosophy is: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it, if it's questionable, keep an eye on it and if it is broke, use quality parts to fix it so it stays fixed.

 

[PouncingPanzer]

I wrenched at a stealership for five years and can offer my 1.5 cents.

One thing I noticed while working at VW was people who are known as "dealer dodgers" often never hear about FREE software updates, technical bulletins, or product updates since they never go to the dealer. I can't tell you how many times I would get a customer complaint that has had a FREE solution to it for over a decade. I got paid still and they didn't get charged for anything. That is just one possible downside to being a "dealer dodger".

Be careful what private shops are using. You should always make sure they aren't going to Fram you or something to that nature, maximizing their profit using garbage parts. That is one piece of mind you can have at the dealer. You will get OEM filters and factory fill oil(which isn't the best, I know, but it isn't Walmart Super Tech either....). One thing I like to do if having someone else service my car for me is provide them with the filters and lubricants you want them to use, leaving you on the hook for only labor and shop charges.

I personally do my services myself except for the ones that require a fluid lift(trans and differential) because I don't have a rack to lift a car up high enough. If I can't do it with ramps or a floor jack, I'm paying someone else to do it. A DSG service runs me $380 at a dedicated German auto repair shop. Even if I had a lift, the equipment I would need to do that myself would run me over $300 anyways, plus my time and cleanup. Since that service only comes up every 50k, I can't justify buying the tools, I will only have that done 2-3 times in the time I own the car anyways, so I will happily pay someone else to do that for me. If looking to use OEM parts but not pay OEM prices, try to find out what brand makes the OEM filters for the brand. For example, if you own something made by VWaG, Mann is your OEM filter producer. From oil to cabin, all Mann made.(ha) So you can still have OEM so to speak, it just didn't come from an overpriced branded box. Another way to save money is use a top-shelf oil and run the full service interval. I stopped wasting my money changing my oil prematurely. I just found oil my cars didn't burn. Motul or Amsoil are all I will put in my cars. Even after 10'000 miles my GTI still read full on the stick and was a dark amber color, not pitch black like one would expect.

Sorry, that ended up being about 2.5 cents and a bunch of rambling. Lol.