Zaino "nubbys"?

[flycaster]

Been using Zaino for the last 13 years, but this is the first time I'm asking the question: Used ZAIO, buffed off, the used Z2. Let the Z2 dry and buffed off. Just about all areas of the car are smooth, but there are several areas that feel non-smooth/nubby. Z6 and a little rubbing with Z2 didn't remove the nubbs. This has happened before, but I've paid no attention to it. But now I'd like ti find out what went wrong.

 

[RTexasF]

When was the last time you clayed the finish? Sounds like surface contamination to me. The baggie test will confirm it.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...nspect-above-surface-bonded-contaminants.html

 

[flycaster]

New car, no need to clay. Also, I might add, this nubby/roughish feeling has happened before on my other cars. The rough feeling is has a rubbery feeling to it. I have the thought that it has something to with curing time???

 

[Radarryan]

Unfortunately, just because it is new doesn't mean it doesn't need to be clayed. Rather, new cars almost universally need to be clayed because of rail dust, environmental fallout, etc. that has embedded itself during manufacture, transport and storage of the vehicle on the dealer lot.

The only difference is sometimes the dealer will "prepare" the car before the customer takes delivery. If that is the case, they will clay the car so you don't have to. Usually, though, this only happens at higher-end dealerships.

 

[Klasse Act]

New car, no need to clay. Also, I might add, this nubby/roughish feeling has happened before on my other cars. The rough feeling is has a rubbery feeling to it. I have the thought that it has something to with curing time???

Unless you saw the car come off of the car hauler you have no idea how long it sat on the lot, so "new" means nothing, LOL!

How could cure time make your cars paint feel rough in areas, don't get that one.

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online

 

[ryanbabz71]

Run the Baggie test to see if the car needs to be clayed. I would put $ on it that it needs to be clayed.


Ryan

 

[flycaster]

As stated before, this nubby, rubberish feeling has occurred on other cars, at different times and in different ares; whereas the unaffected areas are smooth. Although claying would probably remove whatever is causing the problem, I will first try ZAIO in the affected areas. If this doesn't work (almost quite sure it will), I'll then try some compound. After removal, will do Z2 in the areas...making sure that applicator is clean and things have adequate time to dry.

 

[Radarryan]

As stated before, this nubby, rubberish feeling has occurred on other cars, at different times and in different ares; whereas the unaffected areas are smooth. Although claying would probably remove whatever is causing the problem, I will first try ZAIO in the affected areas. If this doesn't work (almost quite sure it will), I'll then try some compound. After removal, will do Z2 in the areas...making sure that applicator is clean and things have adequate time to dry.

I'm a little confused. Claying is the least aggressive option in this case. Certainly a lot less aggressive compared to a compound. The worst case scenario when using the clay bar is if you have really soft black paint and it produces marring. In that case, a finishing polish would be all that you would need to remove the marring and produce a brilliant finish.

Although claying would probably remove whatever is causing the problem

If that is the case, then why don't you try it first. A polish, such as Zaino AIO, would not remove the contaminants as effectively as a clay bar. Also, if Zaino AIO is a chemical cleanser and not an abrasive polish, then it may not remove the embedded contaminants (I have no experience with Zaino products, that's why I can't comment on the makeup of the product).

If you don't have a clay bar, they are available over-the-counter from any automotive or big-box superstore (Wal-Mart, Target, etc.). I would pick one up - you never know when it may come in handy. As you've said, this has happened before, in different areas, on different cars. Most would agree that unless your car is coated (which yours is not if you have Zaino products on it), then you should be claying at least once a year.

If you wanted to stay within one brand, I'm sure Zaino sells clay, but truth be told, they're pretty much the exact same - the only difference is the aggressiveness, or "grade". The OTC clay is mild, however you can probably get aggressive clay if you needed it. The only downside to aggressive clay is a polishing step is most likely needed due to clay-induced marring. If you need something milder, Sonus and Pinnacle have the two gentlest clays available. I have experience with Sonus clay (when Meguiar's OTC clay marred, the Sonus did not!)

Remember, you don't want to polish or compound if you don't need to - the clear coat on your car is finite, and you'll want as much as possible there so you can polish away scratches for years to come. In my opinion, this is not a case where you would want to break out the compound. Check out the threads on claying and the educational material on above-surface embedded contaminants. There is great information to be learned!

Happy detailing!

 

[StangFan25]

Zaino does indeed sell their own clay bars, its what i use. I really don't understand why the OP doesn't want to clay, and would rather compound. Seems backwards to me.

 

[Klasse Act]

Zaino does indeed sell their own clay bars, its what i use. I really don't understand why the OP doesn't want to clay, and would rather compound. Seems backwards to me.

I agree and even though compounding/polishing would remove the embedded contaminents from the top layer of the paint, you'd be rubbing those contaminents right into the paint while compounding/polishing, so claying eliminates this.

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[flycaster]

I do appreciate the suggestions, but I will now tell you that clay/compound is not the way to go. Again, by belief is that somehow the curing process is involved.

I tried smoothing things out with applying ZAIO again, didn't work. I don't have a claybar and your caution about using compound was followed, but as rubbing alcohol removes Zaino products, I tried some alcohol. Of course, it appeared to worked. Roughish surface became somewhat smoother.

I have just applied ZAIO to the smoothed out area, let it thoroughly
dry and then buffed. After buffing, there were still some rough areas? Nonetheless, I applied Z2. Still rough areas.

Finally, spoke with Sal. He suggested several things to try. First off, used the baggy and determined that the car was full of bits and pieces, but the areas where the roughish/rubbery feeling was were the roughest. I don't have any clay, but did try a little 3M Fine Cut in an area that didn't show (in case I f'kd up). Made things as smooth as glass and no rough area after applying ZAIO/Z2. Sal said that for whatever reasons, there was an area of contaminants, but the Fine Cut didn't remove them, just "sanded" down the area, leveling the contaminants. Of course he recommended claying, as you guys did. I'm a little lazy now after applying ZAIO/Z2 to the car (old age, ya' know), so I'll wait a while until I clay the car and Zaino again. However, this is interesting to note, Sal said that claying will not remove the Zaino and that after claying all I have to do is the Z2 (ZAIO not necessary for the bonding as it is already on board)...always thought it did.

While I had Sal on the phone, I asked him a couple of other questions:
1. Will ZAIO wear down the clear coat? He said that it only contains a little bit of rouge and unless used every day, it won't harm the car.
2. How often should it be used by home consumer with a garaged car? He said twice a year Zaino/Z2 or Z5 would be enough.

 

[Klasse Act]

Hey Fly, are you unsure about claying or something? Worried it will remove a layer of LSP? Something else? Just curious because claying takes care of this problem. You could also get a Speedy Prep towel or Nano Skin towel, does the same thing but so much easier!

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[Dr_Pain]

You know, this thread got me completely confused. First off I am confused because the OP is asking about and marketing a product that PBMG does not carry. I will concede that the marketing is not in Zaino's favor, so this is not exactly a sticky point for me, but the second more concerning point is that the information contributed is basic detailing 101, and despite the repeated qualified answers the OP is still bucking!?!.... until he got Sal on the phone. Why he did not start there confuses me!?!

I've used Zaino products for 10+ years and spoke with Sal quite a few times about products and will say that he knows his stuff, however I am confused that the OP is reporting that this detailing giant is stating that his product will survive claying. I beg to differ (from personal experience)! But who am I to challenge this statement? One thing I will share, which can be found on his own website, is the fact that his products have a short shelf life. SO, if you are having difficulties with the product I would say maybe you have exceeded its shelf life, gotten a bad batch or have a technical mishap. Which brings me back to: "Why you did not start with getting help from Zaino?"

In all though: (Detailing 101)

1) New, newer, old vehicle etc... they ALL need to be checked for contaminants PERIOD!. If they don't pass the "baggie test" then you need to clay. I personally would never apply a protection layer on a sub-standard substrate.
2) Always mark your purchase dates on your products and refer back to the manufacturer shelf life. To mark the purchase date does not give you an exact life expectancy (since you don't know how many weeks or months it stayed on the retailer's shelves).
3) If something goes wrong and the expected results are not met, then evaluate the paint, product, technique... something went wrong!

 

[flycaster]

Bottom line guys:
Truth be told, although just about everyone recommended claying to me, it just didn't make sense to me (obviously, I'm no professional) in that the roughish areas were only in a certain small area and I've had the same thing occur in other cars...so I was set on thinking the problem had something to do with curing. However, the small compound test I ran, did convince me that there was an "unusually" large deposit of some kind of contaminant in one area that reacted badly with the ZAIO. I will be claying at a later date. Will probably ZAIO again and then Z2 or Z5 followed by ZCS and I should be good for at least 6 months. Thanks again for your help and suggestions.

 

[StangFan25]

You know, this thread got me completely confused. First off I am confused because the OP is asking about and marketing a product that PBMG does not carry. I will concede that the marketing is not in Zaino's favor, so this is not exactly a sticky point for me

Could you please direct me to the area where is states only products PBMG carry can be discussed?

What does it matter what products he's using? This is a detailer forum, Zaino is a detailer product. And who cares if hes touting it or knocking it?

Again, please show me where the rules state only PBMG carried products are allowed to be discussed or "marketed".

Thanks

 

[Dr_Pain]

Could you please direct me to the area where is states only products PBMG carry can be discussed?

What does it matter what products he's using? This is a detailer forum, Zaino is a detailer product. And who cares if hes touting it or knocking it?

Again, please show me where the rules state only PBMG carried products are allowed to be discussed or "marketed".

Thanks

Alright StangFan... don't need to be rolling your eyes at me. I would encourage you to read my post in its entirety rather than selectively. I never said it was a RULE that we should only discuss PBMG products and would never imply accordingly (you can read my posting history if you don't believe my statement of purpose).

It did strike me as odd that the OP would come in and speak of a product not carried by the "Host" of this forum AND opt to rebuke every attempt offered to describe possible technical flaws..... to then bring in a conversation with the owner of the product line stating in a round about way what was already discussed.

We discuss odd products all the time, and plenty that are not carried by PBMG, but this thread confused me.... in the same as many other "marketing threads" which found themselves deleted by the Host. This is obviously not a full blown "come see my retail website" thread but felt weird to me nonetheless

I guess it would have been different if the OP would have attempted some of the suggestions (ie. seeking technical expertise from this detailing forum and reporting back on his findings, capitalizing on the common knowledge), but it seemed that he had a different idea and the direction felt odd to me (bringing in a conversation with the owner of the other product line).

I am glad you feel compelled and have an opportunity to share your view point of my post.... the same opportunity afforded to me to express myself regarding the OP's thread. And by the way, since I never expressed or implied "Forum Rules and Regulations", then accept my apologies if I don't "show you" or "direct you"

 

[valleyrider]

Could you please direct me to the area where is states only products PBMG carry can be discussed?

What does it matter what products he's using? This is a detailer forum, Zaino is a detailer product. And who cares if hes touting it or knocking it?

Again, please show me where the rules state only PBMG carried products are allowed to be discussed or "marketed".

Thanks

Straight from the rules you agreed to when you signed up on this forum

1. The purpose of Autogeekonline.net is for detailing discussion, providing a place for likeminded auto "Geeks" to share knowledge and partake in fellowship. Since AutogeekOnline is exclusively sponsored by Autogeek.net, product discussion should be limited to products that are available from Autogeek.net and PBMA's family of websites. Links to competing companies and products that are not available through Autogeek.net will be deleted. Repeated linking and discussion of products not available through us may result in a permanent ban. Moderators have the right to edit any posts that contain links or other information pertaining to competing companies that are not associated with Autogeek.net.

 

[Klasse Act]

I don't know where its stated about posting about products not sold here but I know this, Zaino is discussed here quite a bit. I've even posted a lot about Turtle Wax rinseless as well and never got a warning, thank you for that AG. The "Garry Dean" method and his products have also been spoken about here too, no harm, no foul IM0.

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online

 

[Dr_Pain]

I don't know where its stated about posting about products not sold here but I know this, Zaino is discussed here quite a bit. I've even posted a lot about Turtle Wax rinseless as well and never got a warning, thank you for that AG. The "Garry Dean" method and his products have also been spoken about here too, no harm, no foul IM0.

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online

AG is very good to us. They do have rules but do understand and will respect the community discussions despite the rules provided IF it is civil and meaningful. We are a detailing forum and sometimes the products are discussed, and sometimes the technical expertise is discussed (with PBMG product or not).

This thread just felt odd. I am not faulting the OP for it, it just felt odd to me. I guess if the guy had been messed around on the Zaino forum (which I don't believe exist) which would have been a product specific forum, and/or had issues with customer service over at Zaino, and wanted to salvage his work without having to spend more on products then I could have seen reaching to any and all web base expertise, but he obviously spoke to Sal.

If I bring a problem to the forum, I don't buck up and deny the most basic "detailing 101" if I haven't tested and tried them to report. If I bring a problem to the forum I am looking for some tentative answers and/or plausible ways of resolving them.

OOOOPSSS, I think we hijacked the thread.... sorry OP!

 

[StangFan25]

Alright StangFan... don't need to be rolling your eyes at me. I would encourage you to read my post in its entirety rather than selectively. I never said it was a RULE that we should only discuss PBMG products and would never imply accordingly (you can read my posting history if you don't believe my statement of purpose).

It did strike me as odd that the OP would come in and speak of a product not carried by the "Host" of this forum AND opt to rebuke every attempt offered to describe possible technical flaws..... to then bring in a conversation with the owner of the product line stating in a round about way what was already discussed.

We discuss odd products all the time, and plenty that are not carried by PBMG, but this thread confused me.... in the same as many other "marketing threads" which found themselves deleted by the Host. This is obviously not a full blown "come see my retail website" thread but felt weird to me nonetheless

I guess it would have been different if the OP would have attempted some of the suggestions (ie. seeking technical expertise from this detailing forum and reporting back on his findings, capitalizing on the common knowledge), but it seemed that he had a different idea and the direction felt odd to me (bringing in a conversation with the owner of the other product line).

I am glad you feel compelled and have an opportunity to share your view point of my post.... the same opportunity afforded to me to express myself regarding the OP's thread. And by the way, since I never expressed or implied "Forum Rules and Regulations", then accept my apologies if I don't "show you" or "direct you"

Mr. Pain , i don't disagree with you on the way the OP went about handling things. Why ask for input if you're just going to turn your nose up at it. So I agree with you. The only part that caught me was what i quoted above. You've explained, and i appreciate that.

No hard feelings on my end.

Straight from the rules you agreed to when you signed up on this forum

1. The purpose of Autogeekonline.net is for detailing discussion, providing a place for likeminded auto "Geeks" to share knowledge and partake in fellowship. Since AutogeekOnline is exclusively sponsored by Autogeek.net, product discussion should be limited to products that are available from Autogeek.net and PBMA's family of websites. Links to competing companies and products that are not available through Autogeek.net will be deleted. Repeated linking and discussion of products not available through us may result in a permanent ban. Moderators have the right to edit any posts that contain links or other information pertaining to competing companies that are not associated with Autogeek.net.

Hmmm, well I guess I should get busy reporting all the threads that violate those rules, there's SEVERAL topics discussing products that AGO doesn't carry. Seems pretty odd to me. If that's truly the case, this place will lose a ton of credibility in my eyes.