My technique concerning the 3401, Menzerna products, and Hybrid pads

zexel said:
Lawrence, I was referring to machine speed. I usually go 5-6 for both FG400 and SF4000. Im going to adjust both when doing my wifes black Trailblazer SS.
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I have always had better results running FG400 at speed 3-4 rather than at speed 5-6.

But keep running SF4000 at 5-6.
 
smack said:
I have always had better results running FG400 at speed 3-4 rather than at speed 5-6.
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What I see at higher speeds with the Flex 3401 with some compounds and polishes is called,

Pilling

(Think of a tiny pill)

Pilling is caused by two things, (I think), that is high speed oscillations and too much product on the pads/surface.

What you'll see is little round/oval clumps of product forming on the surface around the pad.

Cut down on product use and clean your pad often and the pilling will go away. Also switch to a clean, dry pad anytime your pad becomes or starts to become wet with product.


Anyone else ever see pilling?



:)
 
The only time I get "pilling" is on softer paint. It was a real bear on an Acura TL I polished last season.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Great article Mike (Smack)!

I had the chance to 'put my hands on this treasure' some time ago, when I had the pleasure to met Smack.

I was mainly a SMAT user because DAT was giving me less than desired results, and other concerns like gummed product difficult to remove, too much dust. Also, I was experiencing PILLING like described above.

SMAT is (IMO) easier for a beginner, see the fact UC is OTC product and used worldwide by amateurs and professionals. For SMAT, I believe a constant pressure buffing cycle is more important since you always deal with same size abrasives, and you can stop anytime. For DAT, you have to polish through the end of a cycle, or you'll get less than desired results.

But the abrasives 'Diminish'/change during your work, so tweaking/changing technique on the fly is likely obligatory in this case.

After being 'educated' with the 'Smack Technique', I've switched to ~90% DAT only user.

I've done some adaptations to my taste, like using higher speed (5-6) on first passes (medium-high pressure), speed 4-5 on 2 more passes (same pressure), and speed 3-4 (now reduced pressure) on last passes to finish down.

I believe Hybrid Pads helps this technique to be flawless, since the Orange Cutting pad works awesome on cutting, but gives you the same 'feeling' of a finishing pad when running slow and with less pressure. The DAT gives you a product to be worked for Cutting while starting, and for finishing on the end of your buffing cycle.

The result of using Smack's Technique is that when I finish a section, I have only a thin film of product that's a breeze to remove.

Thanks 'Smike' for sharing your knowledge with us, I can credit mostly of my recent results to you and your technique.

Kind Regards.
 
There is no doubt in my mind that you will get more/faster correction at higher speeds when compounding with the Flex 3401. As Mike said, using the correct amount of product and keeping the pad clean is very important. Even on speed 6, the 3401 is only spinning at 480 RPM, which is slower than the slowest speed setting on a rotary.

Obviously, Mike is a phenomenal detailer and I'm not knocking his technique. I have a different opinion, however. ;)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
What I see at higher speeds with the Flex 3401 with some compounds and polishes is called,

Pilling

(Think of a tiny pill)

Pilling is caused by two things, (I think), that is high speed oscillations and too much product on the pads/surface.

What you'll see is little round/oval clumps of product forming on the surface around the pad.

Cut down on product use and clean your pad often and the pilling will go away. Also switch to a clean, dry pad anytime your pad becomes or starts to become wet with product.


Anyone else ever see pilling?



:)
Click to expand...

Thanks for following up Mike.

I have seen it a few times with the Flex. After cutting back my speed and product this goes away.

ekennett said:
The only time I get "pilling" is on softer paint. It was a real bear on an Acura TL I polished last season.
Click to expand...

I have gotten the same effect as well when over applying FG400 and running it to fast.

Tato said:
Great article Mike (Smack)!

I had the chance to 'put my hands on this treasure' some time ago, when I had the pleasure to met Smack.

I was mainly a SMAT user because DAT was giving me less than desired results, and other concerns like gummed product difficult to remove, too much dust. Also, I was experiencing PILLING like described above.

SMAT is (IMO) easier for a beginner, see the fact UC is OTC product and used worldwide by amateurs and professionals. For SMAT, I believe a constant pressure buffing cycle is more important since you always deal with same size abrasives, and you can stop anytime. For DAT, you have to polish through the end of a cycle, or you'll get less than desired results.

But the abrasives 'Diminish'/change during your work, so tweaking/changing technique on the fly is likely obligatory in this case.

After being 'educated' with the 'Smack Technique', I've switched to ~90% DAT only user.

I've done some adaptations to my taste, like using higher speed (5-6) on first passes (medium-high pressure), speed 4-5 on 2 more passes (same pressure), and speed 3-4 (now reduced pressure) on last passes to finish down.

I believe Hybrid Pads helps this technique to be flawless, since the Orange Cutting pad works awesome on cutting, but gives you the same 'feeling' of a finishing pad when running slow and with less pressure. The DAT gives you a product to be worked for Cutting while starting, and for finishing on the end of your buffing cycle.

The result of using Smack's Technique is that when I finish a section, I have only a thin film of product that's a breeze to remove.

Thanks 'Smike' for sharing your knowledge with us, I can credit mostly of my recent results to you and your technique.

Kind Regards.
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Thanks for taking the time to chime in with your experience Rafael! Greatly appreciated to hear your thoughts.

The Flex is best suited to the Hybrid pads and Menzerna products in my humble opinion.
 
FivePoint.0 said:
I have a different opinion, however. ;)
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And you're always willing to share it and that's what forums are all about. Maybe consider writing your own how-to article for anything?

Share your opinion in a step-by-step how to article with all your tips and techniques for your unique style?

I'm confident everyone would love to read a how-to article penned by you. Especially for any of the popular tools, pads and products we all love to use and talk about on this forum.


:dblthumb2:
 
FivePoint.0 said:
FYI, when I referred to Mike, I meant Smack. :)

Just clarifying. :)
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Understood.

I just encourage everyone with a passion for detailing and helping others to do like Mike aka smack did and that is take some time to share what you've learned and what works for you in a how-to article like smack has done here.

It takes a little time but it's very rewarding.


:dblthumb2:
 
FivePoint.0 said:
Obviously, Mike is a phenomenal detailer and I'm not knocking his technique. I have a different opinion, however. ;)
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Thanks for the kind words Mark. :xyxthumbs:

Would you mind sharing your opinion? I would like to know how your achieve your results seeing as you recently got back on the Flex.
 
Hey Mike, fantastic job on this walk through! I apologize for just seeing this now. I can't believe I missed it but I'm sure glad that I saw it now. Better late than never, I suppose.

You and I both have our love for Menzerna polishes. I don't know if you remember, but we even talked privately about some good coupons associated with Menzerna back in the "good ole days". :laughing:

You know, if I ever end up purchasing a 3401, this guide would be a great resource for me. I hope that any new detailers with the Flex 3401 see this, because it can only help and serve as a great guide, or at the very least a start for their journey. There is such a wealth of knowledge not only in your initial post, but also in the input of other members and Mike Phillips. Pretty much any thread that both Mike's are able to post in, you know is going to be a keeper!

I look forward to your next write up and hope all is going well in Deutschland. I hope all this mess going on in Ukraine and Crimea isn't causing too much of a headache for you and the rest of our forces stationed in Europe. I just thank the men and women across the US and abroad that represent our great Nation, and protect us from harm. I cannot think of a better representation of a good American than you, Smack. Tare care and you all be safe!
 
This is definitely a great guide for anyone new with a 3401. I myself have learned paint can be finicky. Tanks for sharing Mike...
 
Thank you Smike for share you tips :props:. Thank you mike for share your experience :dblthumb2:. The most important is passion. We have available a chemical lab (regarding everyone have in its own shelf) and a variety of pads. With all the information available and sharing experiences from everyone, sometimes we forget common sense. This could save us the day and at end of the day have an smile in our face. Thank you all for sharing opinions, experiences, tips. I hope the passion will be present every day in our hands, our heads and our hearts. Happy detailing!!
 
Radarryan said:
Hey Mike, fantastic job on this walk through! I apologize for just seeing this now. I can't believe I missed it but I'm sure glad that I saw it now. Better late than never, I suppose.

You and I both have our love for Menzerna polishes. I don't know if you remember, but we even talked privately about some good coupons associated with Menzerna back in the "good ole days". :laughing:

You know, if I ever end up purchasing a 3401, this guide would be a great resource for me. I hope that any new detailers with the Flex 3401 see this, because it can only help and serve as a great guide, or at the very least a start for their journey. There is such a wealth of knowledge not only in your initial post, but also in the input of other members and Mike Phillips. Pretty much any thread that both Mike's are able to post in, you know is going to be a keeper!

I look forward to your next write up and hope all is going well in Deutschland. I hope all this mess going on in Ukraine and Crimea isn't causing too much of a headache for you and the rest of our forces stationed in Europe. I just thank the men and women across the US and abroad that represent our great Nation, and protect us from harm. I cannot think of a better representation of a good American than you, Smack. Tare care and you all be safe!
Click to expand...

Hey Ryan, thanks for chiming in. Really appreciated.

I remember those days. You and I both love our Black German Cars and Menzerna polish. Now if you would just pick up a 3401....

Thanks for the kind words buddy!

zexel said:
Thanks Mike! I'll give it a try.
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Sounds good.

281 said:
This is definitely a great guide for anyone new with a 3401. I myself have learned paint can be finicky. Tanks for sharing Mike...
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Sure thing James.

Let me know how the Menzerna and hybrids perform for you.

javip2k said:
Thank you Smike for share you tips :props:. Thank you mike for share your experience :dblthumb2:. The most important is passion. We have available a chemical lab (regarding everyone have in its own shelf) and a variety of pads. With all the information available and sharing experiences from everyone, sometimes we forget common sense. This could save us the day and at end of the day have an smile in our face. Thank you all for sharing opinions, experiences, tips. I hope the passion will be present every day in our hands, our heads and our hearts. Happy detailing!!
Click to expand...

Sure thing. Thank you for taking the time to comment. :props:
 
Removing Swirls from small areas and near edges with products and flex 3401 mentioned in this thread
 
Mike, I've got to tell ya...first time I've said 'WOW' out loud after using my Flex. It's a great tool and I really have enjoyed using it, but after slowing the machine speed to 3-4 w/ FG400 and an orange hybrid, this just changed the game for me! I'll definitely be trying this out on a black Corvette I've got coming in tomorrow.

Just for giggles, I did 3 test spots w/ 3 different methods and BY FAR did your method work best. The finish is 90% corrected and does not look like it will be a 2nd step (rooftop on wifes vehicle). This saves time AND product, awesome!
 
zexel said:
Mike, I've got to tell ya...first time I've said 'WOW' out loud after using my Flex. It's a great tool and I really have enjoyed using it, but after slowing the machine speed to 3-4 w/ FG400 and an orange hybrid, this just changed the game for me! I'll definitely be trying this out on a black Corvette I've got coming in tomorrow.

Just for giggles, I did 3 test spots w/ 3 different methods and BY FAR did your method work best. The finish is 90% corrected and does not look like it will be a 2nd step (rooftop on wifes vehicle). This saves time AND product, awesome!
Click to expand...

I too was blown away at the level of power the machine has to offer when I first started using it. It took me a bit of thinking outside the box, adjusting and adapting, as well as perfecting this technique before I made this write up. When I wrote this article my goal was to get anyone new to the 3401 and Menzerna products to achieve darn near perfection right from the get go.

I am glad to hear of your positive results! I know it seems backwards from the norm to run the compound slower and the polish faster but trust me, this is the way to perfection with this combo. Get on the ball and run SF4000 at speed 5.

:props:
 
i sure am glad you put this post up. i'm waiting on my FLEX and Menzerna products being delivered today. i will be using this same technique on my truck this weekend
 
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