Synergy - can it deliver?

Radarryan said:
Absolutely fantastic review, Stuart! What a beautiful car, too! I hope you got to drive it to where you took those fantastic pictures! I would have you take pics anytime!

I gotta say that it isn't surprising that it seems more like a sealant in look, but nonetheless it's disappointing since I enjoy that warm, wax glow when I opt for a wax. The pool of wetness and gloss are good attributes, though, and of course on white sometimes the warmth struggles to come through. We'll see if you get a chance to put it on that black Panamera how it reacts...

Thanks for taking the time to do it! I hope that the owner is very happy with their new 911. I'd ask if he is happy with the detail but I think we both know that answer... :dblthumb2:
Click to expand...

Thanks Ryan...appreciate the comments but I think your a little partial to the marque. hahaha. And yes, I'm very anxious to get my hands on the black Panamera and from this; my first Porsche experience, the paint is a joy to work with. After I get out the defects, going to take your advice and use a Crimson HT pad with some Sf4000 to gloss it up. So I'll report back on all of that should it actually happen.

And btw, it would be my pleasure to do some beauty shots of your car. You know where I live.
 
Right Larry, it can be a challenge to find a pure cleanser. P21s Paint Cleanser is another choice and I've also the DP Coating Prep. I love KAIO but the sealant is an issue for this purpose so I used it to clean wheels and such.
 
That is an amazing job :dblthumb2:

At first while reading i thought "that's a lot of cleaning and washing", but you can't argue with the results! It looks like i could dive right into that bonnet :applause:
 
addysdaddy said:
...Sorry but I haven't played with any of the coating products since I'm mostly an enthusiast and don't want to kill my hobby with a one and done type of product. Up to this point if you asked me my favorite three LSPs I would say (note that list is dynamic).

Auto Finesse Illusion
BF Crystal Seal
Collinite #845...
Click to expand...


Dear Stuart (is it your name?, tried to guess from the other posts).

This review is so great I keep coming back to read it (and also see the incredible pics), I can only imagine I had an identification with your 'cleansing approach'.

I'm certain proper preparation also means flawless CLEAN paint, I always try to walk towards it.

What you've done teaches me (in many ways) new lessons regarding how to prep. a surface before LSP. Intense, but in any manner overkilling.

Re-reading your fist post, I've found the statement I've quoted above...

I'd like to comment on your words, since coatings are what I'm most applying recently.

Being one and done products are what many would like coatings to be, or also the claims some product developers tries to pass forward. But in reality, coatings (I'll talk mainly about PBL coating that is what I use) are just the start of 'another hobby'!, or better, the extension of the existing one.

I'm telling you this because depending on vehicle's usage, too much highway, climatic conditions (or the simple habit of parking under a tree sap tree!), will start aggregating contaminants to the finish, sorry, to the coating (as well!).

Unfortunately (or fortunately, I don't know!), nothing can avoid this to happen.

I do maintenance on many customers coated vehicles, some I could 'feel' above surface contaminants making surface harsh to the touch 2-3 months after application (mostly on horizontal panels). Just like: 'time to redo something'!

That said, if you had that white porsche first coated (let's say, some 4-5 months ago), you would be doing EXACTLY what you've done now, to apply Synergy. Even the claying step.

Coatings (just like us, from what I see) Likes the Cleansing approach.

And from it's point of inception, Synergy Likes the Coating as well.

When doing an extensive paint correction, I think of using a long lasting product on top of it, and that's when coatings comes to my mind.

If the coating is made to last 3 or more years, I don't mind because I need 10-12 months before thinking of at least 1-step fine polishing. I just can't get close to 10 months (in my climatic condition) with any wax or sealant without needing to reapply at least once. It'' just assure you'll not be left behind on protection, for a minimum of 1-2 years (3, or permanent like many others). And it's a quality protection.

From the price tag, 8oz PBL surface coating costs ~half then a can of synergy, considering coupons and or promotions. I don't know american / european impressions on the price for PBL coating, but for me it's being really affordable for it's usage, and potential profits with it.

However, to keep the 'hobby flowing', coating maintenance is the new deal.

I'm not saying it'll be easier to prepare, every detail takes a lot of time and dedication. But I can assure you it'll be much more enjoyable when working over a coated surface.

And for a hobby, it must be enjoyable!

A PBL coated car after your cleansing step and synergy application, would give you ^2 popularity ;)

Hope I could give you some ideas regarding coatings, please, do not read my comments above 'literally', I'm Brazilian and can't express exactly what I really mean some times.

If you are facing my words above as a friendly comment, then I think you got my point.

Can't wait for the Panamera,

Kind Regards.
 
Hey Tato, yes Stuart is my real name (though I am Addy's daddy) & thanks so much for posting up. I take all your comments in the most positive and helpful context and I only wish I could be as fluent in Portuguese as you are in English. My thanks again. Note my Panamera mini review was posted earlier today, so look for part 2.

You've given me some serious food for thought regarding coatings. If I'm understanding you correctly coatings are not actually one and done but need the same (only different) TLC that any LSP requires - it just offers better protection. I'm going to consider that...was surprised to hear you clayed the coated surface - doesn't that abrade the protection off and cause it to fail? Again I plead ignorance when it comes to coatings but I haven't met a LSP yet that inhibits contamination.

So let me ask, which coating(s) should I consider? I've seen some pictures of 22PLE that look amazing and I know AG offers several different versions within their house brand banner, as well as others from different manufacturers. I know I wouldn't want to use Opti-Coat cause that's permanent (but I love Optimum products in general) but perhaps Gtechniq is another possibility. I'm anxious to hear your thoughts.
 
Hi Stuart. Addy's Daddy, now I got it!

Notice, everything I may talk here about coatings are particularly related to Pinnacle Coatings, since I've started coating with them and found no need to test other brands. They are functioning really well on context I'm working.

You understood my point perfectly, coatings needs to be cleansed often to be kept looking it's best for long time, T-TLC. If neglected, they'll exhibit embedded contaminants, and will reprove the baggie test. Everything will depend on use owner makes of his/her's car.

What I see on PBL coatings maintenance is that for you to restore the original look and feel of it, only a cleansing process is needed, no more abrasives.

In the long term, this is economical to customer and also a pleasure for the detailer since it's enjoyable doing a cleansing step on a coated car, it's like doing an AIO.

Also, coatings may resist better to heavier soap dilutions, which may increase the cleaning, thus, restore it even better. Many waxes can't stand strong against heavy shampoo.

Think about the following, when you did all the cleansing process on this Porsche, you needed to finish with a LSP (Synergy, in case). If the car was coated, you would have 2 (3) options:

- Stop after the last cleansing step and stay with a rejuvenated coating. The more clean the coating, the better it works.

- Continue and top it with Synergy, since PBL coatings accepts waxes (and Synergy wasn't named this way by accident). Applying a quality wax over a coated surface improves the look of it, from what I've read and saw personally.

- I may add a 3rd option, my new addition (should I say addiction), use the coating booster.

There are many other coatings around like CQUK, Opti-coat, the Polishing Angel, EXO, 22Ple, the new Duragloss Coating... I can't opine on that, sorry, just express here my will to try everything if possible. I've risked starting with PBL coatings and won't regret. Already re-stocked them and keep using it as the mainstream of my work.

It's very good quality product. However, since I've only used it, maybe I'm missing something - so I'm not 100% sure to recommend you PBL line against all those quality competitors. More research will be needed in this area.

Regarding coating maintenance, I've done some to date, I mean, apart from just washing coated cars which I do often. I've used the Cleansing polish alone with a finishing pad and that was enough on a case of embedded dirt (not even clayed). Stopped at that point.

In other case, I've done a claying step using nanoskin, then got rid of clay marring with cleansing polish on a finishing pad again.

In another case, where I've faced some swirls and scratches on the hood of a coated car, I've clayed it, then I did a single finishing step using a polishing pad and SF4000 (over the entire hood).

The feeling I had is that the swirls and scratches were actually 'much superficial' like being on the coating. They were very easy polished out. Just after that, a cleansing polish and re-coated the surface to bring back a flawless (modesty apart), beautiful perfect finish.

Of course this was an impression I had one time while polishing over a coated surface, the superficial marks may also be due the slickness level offered by coating while washing, which may avoid brute force, thus reducing surface swirling and scratching during wash.

I'm sorry if I couldn't help you more, PBL is relatively new product and we haven't got many feedbacks like other brands.

If you have interest, I've done a testing with the PBL coating demonstrating it's beading action microscopically. This is a very preliminar testing, but gave me better background to know product I most sell here better.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...g-pbl-coating-macro-microscopically-more.html

I also have threads on coating application, just ask when you need it!

Pleasure talking to you,

Kind Regards.
 
Best looking white car I've ever seen. Fantastic. :xyxthumbs::xyxthumbs::xyxthumbs:

Great review, too - appreciate the excellent writeup and honest opinions on this product. Kudos!
 
rms64 said:
Best looking white car I've ever seen. Fantastic. :xyxthumbs::xyxthumbs::xyxthumbs:

Great review, too - appreciate the excellent writeup and honest opinions on this product. Kudos!
Click to expand...

Thanks RMS. I completely agree that the C2S is really a sweet looking ride.
 
Rafael,

I'm overwhelmed with all the information you've posted as I went to the link provided above. Not really sure how it all boils down, so let me outline what I think I read and you'll please correct me where approporiate.

Application
  • clean the paint
  • polish the paint & get it defect free
  • IPA wipe/Panel Wipe/Eraser the paint to make sure all residue has been removed.
  • apply coating and make sure it cures & doesn't get wet for 12 hrs.

Maintenance

  • wash the paint with stronger soap dilution
  • use a paint cleanser made for coatings
  • clay bar/nanoskin should not be necessary
  • apply coating boaster or wax (like synergy) that can play nicely with coating
  • repeat process over the next 6 mos -2 years depending on environment and product used.

Cautions
  • not all waxes work well with coatings
  • takes some effort to remove the coatings & is difficult to know if in fact you've been successful
  • Coating lose some of it's shine over time so it needs to be cared for like traditional wax
 
You have an incredible capacity of synthesizing things, this is a very good guide.

On Application, Cleansing Polish can be interchangeable with IPA / Eraser.

On Maintenance, if frequent, clay bar / nanoskin should not be necessary. However, if contaminants are harsh and left for too long, claybar / nanoskin may be needed.

Just beware of the procedure to get rid of clay marring.

Cautions: Not all waxes work well with coatings, this is true. I could notice some wax build up over coating that needed to be removed later with cleansing polish. It's a very simple and intuitive process, but it's always good to be aware of this build up.

I wouldn't say it'll lost it's shine (it always wonders me how shiny a coated car looks even when dirty), it may hidden some proprieties when embedded with above surface contaminants, needing a cleansing procedure.

In general, like I've said, you have the power of synthesis, that's very good for you (and for us, reading your posts).

Kind Regards.
 
Thanks for the follow up Rafael - there much to consider here. Going to do some research and speak with some users personally to get their spin on the whole coating thing. Synergy is of particular interest to someone like me because it's part wax and part coating - so that might be the best of both worlds for me.
 
addysdaddy said:
You have an excellent memory sealthedeal - I do have Spirit and I absolutely love the look, especially on white. But....it's more work to apply & remove than Illusion and as I mentioned here, that's important in my personal grading system. Spirit vs Illusion on just looks, Spirit wins every time. Illusion is probably 85%-90% of the visual effect but 125% easier to remove so pick your poison. If you apply Spirit with a heavy hand (don't ask how I know this) break out the hammer and chisel because the heavy lifting has just begun. With Illusion, it truly doesn't matter - heavy thin, WOWO let it dry for 15-30 minutes is always a pleasure to wipe off.

So when recommending any LSP I always try and keep the overall "experience" in mind since all of these products look fantastic and only under certain conditions would the visual differences become apparent, especially to the average person. And because Illusion is not fussy I can apply it anyway I choose. With Spirit the only way I can get that thin coat is with the Kiss The Paint Method, which is why I applied Synergy with that technique. (I know my limitations). And it's not that it's such a PITA but sometimes I simply don't want to mess with all of that and just want to quickly lay down a coat of wax by hand.

My plan is to get the 911 back and give Spirit a shot, but let's leave the Synergy alone for a while and see how it holds up. The car is his DD so hopefully we'll see how it does and whether it turns into a dust magnet or not. LOL, this is exactly why I don't care about longevity - there is ALWAYS something new to try.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to add a footnote since this initial post. I've found that AF Spirit to be super easy to remove if you WOWO - spread product over half a panel and simply wipe off. No effort and flawless shine. IME, most of the carnauba waxes I've tried work best with the WOWO method. And after several follow up conversations with Nick, Synergy works best when I apply wax (by hand) to two panels and go back to remove. Allow either Spirit or Synergy to dry and you have a hornets nest for removal. Work it wet and it's a breeze. YMMV.
 
addysdaddy said:
Just wanted to add a footnote since this initial post. I've found that AF Spirit to be super easy to remove if you WOWO - spread product over half a panel and simply wipe off. No effort and flawless shine. IME, most of the carnauba waxes I've tried work best with the WOWO method. And after several follow up conversations with Nick, Synergy works best when I apply wax (by hand) to two panels and go back to remove. Allow either Spirit or Synergy to dry and you have a hornets nest for removal. Work it wet and it's a breeze. YMMV.
Click to expand...

No kidding. I applied AF Spirit, on my hood and I made 2 mistakes. 1) Let it sit too long 2)used too much. It was a PITA to remove to say the least. I ended up trading it for Fuzion lol. I should've gave it another try.

I have AF Desire next in line to sample.
 
JHL88 said:
No kidding. I applied AF Spirit, on my hood and I made 2 mistakes. 1) Let it sit too long 2)used too much. It was a PITA to remove to say the least. I ended up trading it for Fuzion lol. I should've gave it another try.

I have AF Desire next in line to sample.
Click to expand...

I hear ya - my first try would be WOWO with the AF Desire. Also leave it in the garage for 30-60 minutes before you're going to use it - softens up a bit. Please post up your thoughts as I haven't tried it yet and anxious to hear reports, both positive and negative.
 
Never seen a white car shine as good as this, great job. I have a silver car and use fusion now, just bought some syngery on sale cant wait to try it out next spring and compare the two.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top