Opticoat 2.0 discontinued, OptiCoat Pro sees price increase

[jarred767]

And that is what this thread was about until we started measuring drops and expressing outrage that people forward emails.

Not to mention things like how calculate means and medians....It's been a pretty informative thread on all kinda of topics Im the MAN

 

[tdekany]

Chad - those 2 potential clients, if I remember correctly ended up going with CQF (if that story is indeed true to begin with) based on price AND because of what they read regarding the changes and how those changes were implemented. I can kind of understand making a decision based on that, reading a bunch of disssatisfied posts from installers. However, price? OC is still a bargain compared to CQF. Because no matter how well you maintain the finish, in 2 years time you will need to fork out another big chunk of $$$$ to have it redone while OC will still be protecting the finish. Just saying.

 

[RaskyR1]

Chad - those 2 potential clients, if I remember correctly ended up going with CQF (if that story is indeed true to begin with) based on price AND because of what they read regarding the changes and how those changes were implemented. I can kind of understand making a decision based on that, reading a bunch of disssatisfied posts from installers. However, price? OC is still a bargain compared to CQF. Because no matter how well you maintain the finish, in 2 years time you will need to fork out another big chunk of $$$$ to have it redone while OC will still be protecting the finish. Just saying.

The person in that post actually emailed me later, and they did end up going with a CQuartz product.

I disagree with your statement in bold because virtually everyone of my repeat clients comes back around the 18-24 month mark to have their car re-polished again because of light swirls, regardless of whether or not the coating is still there. I also explain that while OCP is marketed as "Permanent", I don't like the term becuase their finish can and will become swirled over time, which will require polishing to remove, which will compromise the coating. Competing companies are also aware of this, which is why they focus on the 2yr mark....funny how Opt has done the same with Gloss-Coat

This is the reality of things, and aside for a few "hard core" OCP guys, most every detailer will tell you the same based on experience. The only exceptions to that would be owners who have their cars professionally maintained, or the rare owner who actually sticks with the proper care outlined for them by the installer. BUT, the sad reality is that in this fast paced world people simply don't have time to care for their cars, and thus, then end up at the swirl-o-matic wash, which btw just voided your warranty.


Recoated with OCP 7 months after initial application, but hey, it's permanent.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...4-paint-correction-opti-coat-pro-coating.html

This car was recoated at the 6 month mark. No major swirls, but it had ZERO beading, even after a full decon. It was polished with Opt Primer and recoated. Another 6 months went by and again, ZERO beading! This time it was polished and coated with CQF.

 

[RaskyR1]

This owner came back after 12 months because of light swirling. After explaining proper care to him he even went out and bought a CR Sotless and a blower, yet he still accumulated swirls.

 

[RaskyR1]

Initial Coating 6/21/12
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...2-step-correction-opti-guard-application.html


Back again for a polish and "permanent coating" reapplication on May 23, 2014. I didn't post pics this time, but I do have them at home if you'd like proof. Should I go on?

 

[tdekany]

Competing companies are also aware of this, which is why they focus on the 2yr mark....funny how Opt has done the same with Gloss-Coat

I realize that you don't want anyone to use Opti Coat anymore, but the above statement is... not sure if I want to say what I really think of it, because I like you and respect you. But I will say this: the reason is very different, it has nothing to do with swirls. While OC and the other long lasting products are all shoved into the same category, OC is different. OC is a form of clear coat. So whether you get swirls or no swirls, CQF will need to be reapplied sooner or later. It will be abraded away. Not because the manufacturer knows that in 24 months there will be enough marring on any one vehicle.

Also, your examples to prove your point about 1 - OC doesn't last at all (6 months) or 2 - swirls up?

1 - it would be just as easy to post examples of OC lasting 4 or even 5 years and still beading like day 1. So not sure how that would make YOU look. After all, if we have cars that bead after so many years, could the installation be blamed instead of the product?

2 - we both know, that paint CAN be swirl free even without a coating on it. I mean protected with a traditional LSP. It can be done, so if some schmuck swirls up his coated finish, he IS really the one to blame. Even you admit that most of "YOUR" customers end up not caring for the finish the way they should.

 

[tdekany]

I didn't post pics this time, but I do have them at home if you'd like proof. Should I go on?

My reply to you, while I know how capable of a detailer (one of the best) you are and you do fantastic work, is that I recall how you used to "brag" (I know it is the wrong word, so i apologize) about how fast you can apply OC? Do you think that maybe you wiped off OC too fast? And maybe that is the reason why the product failed? I mean it always ends up taking me 90-120 minutes to coat a car and when I look at the time to see what it took, I almost always feel like a user, because I recall how fast you can apply it. So I don't know.

Maybe you are right, maybe Optimum was able to fool all of us OC installers all these years and it is really a shitty product, and the other semi permanent coatings are superior, not to mention "harder" and these other coatings indeed do prevent swirls better. Feed back please

 

[RaskyR1]

I realize that you don't want anyone to use Opti Coat anymore, but the above statement is... not sure if I want to say what I really think of it, because I like you and respect you. But I will say this: the reason is very different, it has nothing to do with swirls. While OC and the other long lasting products are all shoved into the same category, OC is different. OC is a form of clear coat. So whether you get swirls or no swirls, CQF will need to be reapplied sooner or later. It will be abraded away. Not because the manufacturer knows that in 24 months there will be enough marring on any one vehicle.

Also, your examples to prove your point about 1 - OC doesn't last at all (6 months) or 2 - swirls up?

1 - it would be just as easy to post examples of OC lasting 4 or even 5 years and still beading like day 1. So not sure how that would make YOU look. After all, if we have cars that bead after so many years, could the installation be blamed instead of the product?

2 - we both know, that paint CAN be swirl free even without a coating on it. I mean protected with a traditional LSP. It can be done, so if some schmuck swirls up his coated finish, he IS really the one to blame. Even you admit that most of "YOUR" customers end up not caring for the finish the way they should.

My point with the above is that regardless of whether it's OCP, another 2 coating, or a wax/sealant, they will all fail miserably unless proper care is followed. The majority of the people out there do not care for their cars properly, regardless of what you tell or tech them, thus having a coating last past the 2 yr mark is rather pointless.

I'm well aware that OCP is different, and I'm well aware there are vehicles that are very well cared for still look good after many years (though some have had boosters applied). Two of my own cars have gone over 2 years with OCP before I decide it's time to polish and try something else. This however is not the norm, and most detailers who've been using the product for several years will agree.

I don't argue how great of a product OCP is and I have no issues with others applying. I chose to drop it for my own reasons, none of which have to do with the product itself. What I do dislike is marketing unrealistic expectations to the average consumer. I've seen first hand on my own cars, clienst cars, and well as the various test panels I have set up outside over the years, what's realistic for OCP and what isn't.

Thomas, you know I like you and that I have a lot of respect for you as well, but that doesn't mean we have to agree on all things. Please feel free to speak freely towards me.

 

[tdekany]

Thomas, you know I like you and that I have a lot of respect for you as well, but that doesn't mean we have to agree on all things.

I agree with that!

 

[RaskyR1]

My reply to you, while I know how capable of a detailer (one of the best) you are and you do fantastic work, is that I recall how you used to "brag" (I know it is the wrong word, so i apologize) about how fast you can apply OC? Do you think that maybe you wiped off OC too fast? And maybe that is the reason why the product failed? I mean it always ends up taking me 90-120 minutes to coat a car and when I look at the time to see what it took, I almost always feel like a user, because I recall how fast you can apply it. So I don't know.

Maybe you are right, maybe Optimum was able to fool all of us OC installers all these years and it is really a shitty product, and the other semi permanent coatings are superior, not to mention "harder" and these other coatings indeed do prevent swirls better. Feed back please

I think you have me confused with someone else, because I don't ever recall saying that. If I did, please link the post. If anything, I have been baffled as to how some others have applied it so quickly. Prior to Opt Primer, I would spend 30-45 minutes wiping the car down with IPA/Eraser and then it was and still is 60+ minutes to coat an averaged size car, longer with wheels or if there is lots of plastic trim.

I never said OCP failed in my above posts, just that the paint was swirled or it had stopped beading from neglect (lack of washing). On the car where is stopped beading, there was still signs the coating was there, mainly while claying.

 

[tdekany]

I think you have me confused with someone else, because I don't ever recall saying that. If I did, please link the post. If anything, I have been baffled as to how some others have applied it so quickly. Prior to Opt Primer, I would spend 30-45 minutes wiping the car down with IPA/Eraser and then it was and still is 60+ minutes to coat an averaged size car, longer with wheels or if there is lots of plastic trim.

I never said OCP failed in my above posts, just that the paint was swirled or it had stopped beading from neglect (lack of washing). On the car where is stopped beading, there was still signs the coating was there, mainly while claying.

If you say so, I have to take your word on that, but I am pretty sure that I remember that it was you who said you can coat the car in 45 minutes. Just the coating part, not the prep. But no biggie, I apologize if it was someone else.

 

[RaskyR1]

If you say so, I have to take your word on that, but I am pretty sure that I remember that it was you who said you can coat the car in 45 minutes. Just the coating part, not the prep. But no biggie, I apologize if it was someone else.

I may have said 45 for a car early on, just for the paint, but I don't see that as fast, not near as fast as I've seen others claim, and I seriously hope it never came of as bragging. It's been an hour plus for some time and I know I have post saying that to others somewhere.

 

[RaskyR1]

If you say so, I have to take your word on that, but I am pretty sure that I remember that it was you who said you can coat the car in 45 minutes. Just the coating part, not the prep. But no biggie, I apologize if it was someone else.

Not an easy post to try and find, but I did find this, which is from over 3 years ago and says exactly what I mentioned above.

 

[Flash Gordon]

What all other coating companies love is how OC is shoved in with other coatings. OC is a clear coat, not a nano sealant (aka coating). That is why OC will outlast the other ones.

Not sure I understand what you are saying, but OC IS a clear coat. The other "coatings" are not clear coats. That is why the around 2 year durability.

You are one stubborn individual.All you have to do, since you are so sure of yourself, is give Dr G a call. You can educate him, and correct him about his claims. After all with all his credentials, according to you, he is full of it.

Btw, what is your background?

To everyone else - IF the prep work is done properly and OC is applied correctly, the product will not come off the paint. End of story. All one has to do is wash the car once OC is applied. After 30 days of curing, you have to compound the finish to get OC off the car. If needed, one can polish OC with a finishing pad and finishing polish.

I have the utmost respect for Chad, I don't know who Zach is (sorry), but it seems from what I have seen is that part time detailers are the ones who are stopping their relationships with Optimum. I could be wrong though.

I am pretty sure he doesn't know me either :xyxthumbs:

I mean what is so strange about that? Do you know who I am? Pretty sure you don't either. I do not post here or read daily, so can you forgive me?

Who is Allen?:buffing:

I am confused.

We OC pros have most of the facts e mailed to each of us. rops:

BTW, all I do is Opti Coat details. New or used and corrected, get OC :dblthumb2:

auto detailing solution has them listed on their site

What is that hype?

Call Dr G - ask him how long OCP or 2.0 last on the paint. He will tell you permanent.

Lots of $$$ in Bend, unfortunately, you have to start all over.

In order to keep this kosher, Optimum needed to make changes so that real pros can operate and charge what needs to be charged. Instead of discontinuing it, David created another product to compete with the likes of CQ, 22ple, modesta, etc... The question is, how glossy, slick easy and durable is it?

I think you need to be asking Optimum these questions, not me.

Real pro = honest. if you claim you are using OCP, you are using OCP

What is your question? This is like pulling teeth.

Gloss coat is not warrantied, Applying Opti Coat pro to a 10 year old car which is properly prepped, will last as long as the car itself. Not so with Gloss coat.

I think you are over thinking this. Before the mandatory warranty, there was no warranty, even on a brand new car. That doesn't mean that the coating isn't going to stay on the car past 2 years.

Sounds like you are trying to learn everything about each product before you make a decision between going with GC or OCP. I'd suggest to go with OCP. That is what is on our brand new car.

And everything else is also coated on the inside


I am pretty sure you are intelligent enough to figure that one out. Do you get powertrain warranty if you do the maintenance? Of course not. Same with exterior protection. No matter how much you train/educate the customer, for most, how they actually treat the finish is very different from how the paint "should" be maintained. Even with all the abuse that most cars go through, Optimum is confident enough that for 5 years the coating will hold up enough to their standards. Either way, (unless you have the coating compounded off) the coating is on the finish. You did read Dr G's post above right?

Don't forget to post pictures of your freshly coated car!!!rops:

You would be surprised. Why wouldn't he be interested in talking with you?

When I am suspicious of a product's claim that I have no interest in, I move on.

Why not do the same?

i don't see you going after CQ, or am I missing your other posts?:dblthumb2::xyxthumbs:rops:Feed back please

You can do what I do and call him. I had a number of questions, one of them was what you asked, but that was all I was told and what I wrote down above. He had to finish payroll, so I let him do what he needed to do. I will find out, and so can you. There are a few 'reviews" from the testers, I mean it was JUST introduced. My syringes are on their way and I will apply it to one of our cars. Coatings are not different in their reaction to the environment except that they die after 18-24 months. I mean do we really think that CQF will stay on every car for 24 months and disappears the day or week after? They all die gradually, sooner or later, and I believe where the car is and color of the finish will dictate that big time.

1- this part of your post shows that you are thinking like a salesman. Most people and detailers are honest and do not think like that.

2 - i still can't figure out why you are so concerned with this issue since your made it clear that you have no interest in the product itself.

3 - did you ever receive a reply from DR G about their claim of OC thickness? What was it?

PS: a potential client can always check who is approved to use OC pro on the optimum website.

You didn't get this e mail from DR G?

The old number for sociopaths/psychopaths (people without conscience) is estimated at 4% which equals to about 12.5 million in the US of A. So I am correct and you are wrong. Most people are honest, but the few bad seeds will cause issues.

What is unbelievable? I alerted Dr G that Allen received conflicting info when going to the source. Some of you guys should really try to find a hobby or something, because from where I am sitting, your involvement in a product that you don't use is making you look pretty bad.

Which questions did he not answer?

What are you a 2 year old? The e mail had the very same content he has been asking on this forum.

Not sure what is up your pants but man you are sounding worse by the posts.

How about this thought? Taking your on advice? I mean what do you mean by moving away to a far away location? What is that have to do with any of this? Try to caaaalllllllmmmmm down. After all, you are working yourself up over a product that you don't use, a product that went up in price. If you still can't understand why the 5 year warranty vs lifetime, there is not much anyone can do for you.

Depending on the size of the car, I usually do use 10cc for an average car like an M5. Most def. more than couple of drops per panel. However I must have missed that part of his post. Yet, I still have to wonder why all these questions about a product he has no interest using. Does anyone really use that little? Can one "cover" a regular sized car with 5cc? Most definitely. Thinner layer but it has been done many times.

Does it say anywhere that if you use 2 drops per panel once the applicator is primed that you get 2 microns?

Chad - those 2 potential clients, if I remember correctly ended up going with CQF (if that story is indeed true to begin with) based on price AND because of what they read regarding the changes and how those changes were implemented. I can kind of understand making a decision based on that, reading a bunch of disssatisfied posts from installers. However, price? OC is still a bargain compared to CQF. Because no matter how well you maintain the finish, in 2 years time you will need to fork out another big chunk of $$$$ to have it redone while OC will still be protecting the finish. Just saying.

I realize that you don't want anyone to use Opti Coat anymore, but the above statement is... not sure if I want to say what I really think of it, because I like you and respect you. But I will say this: the reason is very different, it has nothing to do with swirls. While OC and the other long lasting products are all shoved into the same category, OC is different. OC is a form of clear coat. So whether you get swirls or no swirls, CQF will need to be reapplied sooner or later. It will be abraded away. Not because the manufacturer knows that in 24 months there will be enough marring on any one vehicle.

Also, your examples to prove your point about 1 - OC doesn't last at all (6 months) or 2 - swirls up?

1 - it would be just as easy to post examples of OC lasting 4 or even 5 years and still beading like day 1. So not sure how that would make YOU look. After all, if we have cars that bead after so many years, could the installation be blamed instead of the product?

2 - we both know, that paint CAN be swirl free even without a coating on it. I mean protected with a traditional LSP. It can be done, so if some schmuck swirls up his coated finish, he IS really the one to blame. Even you admit that most of "YOUR" customers end up not caring for the finish the way they should.

My reply to you, while I know how capable of a detailer (one of the best) you are and you do fantastic work, is that I recall how you used to "brag" (I know it is the wrong word, so i apologize) about how fast you can apply OC? Do you think that maybe you wiped off OC too fast? And maybe that is the reason why the product failed? I mean it always ends up taking me 90-120 minutes to coat a car and when I look at the time to see what it took, I almost always feel like a user, because I recall how fast you can apply it. So I don't know.

Maybe you are right, maybe Optimum was able to fool all of us OC installers all these years and it is really a shitty product, and the other semi permanent coatings are superior, not to mention "harder" and these other coatings indeed do prevent swirls better. Feed back please

You are a 1 man wrecking crew !!! With each post you make you are costing Optimum sales. Your condescending tone is a HUGE turn off

You are local to him? Why not visit?

Because I work 70+ hours a week. I don't have time to waste - at least not on that ...

So I am assuming you don't use terms like permanent structure?
In the grand scheme of things nothing is really permanent. I think it is reasonable to talk about functional permanence though. For example the sun isn't permanent, but it is permanent enough for my purposes.

I once had some well dressed guys knocking on my door who tried to convince me that even death isn't permanent.

I can honestly say I have never in my life used the term permanent structure

Those guys in suits were right. Death isn't permanent. Eventually we all will die and meet our maker (God/Jesus Christ). At that point your eternal destination will be determined

 

[tdekany]

You are a 1 man wrecking crew !!! With each post you make you are costing Optimum sales. Your condescending tone is a HUGE turn off

You had it out for optimum way before I ever replied in this post. Please don't try to sound like you are speaking for the masses. You are not. You have an issue with Optimum, maybe it is you and the other anti OC posts that will cost Optimum.

If you can't see that tone as me being sarcastic, in some of what you put in bold I am not sure what to tell you. Could you have 0 sense of humor?

I am not costing Optimum one penny. I don't work for the company, I am allowed to say what I want within Autogeek's guidelines. I actually use OCP, continue to and 99.99% of my details are OC jobs.

With nearly 10000 post you don't have time? And talking to the developer of OC to you is a waste of time?

I am pretty sure your posts cost Optimum big $$$ and you don't even realize.

 

[allenk4]

I wonder if some of the stated confusion between the Consumer Version (Opti-Coat 2.0) and the Professional Version (Opti-Coat Pro), is being perpetuated by websites like the one linked below, that mistakenly use the word "Opti-Coat" when they are actually offering Opti-Coat PRO

Opti-Coat - Dekany Detail of Portland OregonDekany Detail of Portland Oregon

 

[tdekany]

I wonder if some of the stated confusion between the Consumer Version (Opti-Coat 2.0) and the Professional Version (Opti-Coat Pro), is being perpetuated by websites like the one linked below, that mistakenly use the word "Opti-Coat" when they are actually offering Opti-Coat PRO

Opti-Coat - Dekany Detail of Portland OregonDekany Detail of Portland Oregon

No mistakes, I think it is you who is confused about what is or isn't. Can't blame you, since you are not familiar with these 2 products. All I ever do it Opti Coat details and never had a customer who was confused and trust me, not one of them are on detailing forums asking questions about it like yourself. Yet somehow they know.

So!!!

There is Opti Coat, the professional version

And then there is Opti Coat 2.0

Glad you linked my site.

 

[builthatch]

I wonder if some of the stated confusion between the Consumer Version (Opti-Coat 2.0) and the Professional Version (Opti-Coat Pro), is being perpetuated by websites like the one linked below, that mistakenly use the word "Opti-Coat" when they are actually offering Opti-Coat PRO

Opti-Coat - Dekany Detail of Portland OregonDekany Detail of Portland Oregon

OPT itself calls Pro "Opti-Coat". i don't think that's them mistakenly doing something

Opti-Coat Ceramic Clear Coating

 

[tdekany]

OPT itself calls Pro "Opti-Coat". i don't think that's them mistakenly doing something

Opti-Coat Ceramic Clear Coating

Hopefully he will now understand it. rops:rops:rops:

 

[Pureshine]

This thread is getting funny really.