Menz 4500 vs. Reflect --- comparison

spewking

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
423
Reaction score
0
I am a menzerna fan and love both 4000 and 4500. Frankly, they at the only polishes I use.

I am also a big carpro fan and corey is awesome.

Has anyone done a comparison of these to reflect? Positive threads here on reflect but wanted to see if anyone had directly compared to provide insight.

Reflect is on BOGO now so I am anxious to pick up some.

Thanks.
 
Reflect has a bit of a learning curve, but once you learn how to use it, it is an amazing finishing polish.

SF4500 works well, but it is so oily. This makes it quite a lot of work to remove all of the residue. Reflect wipes away incredibly easy.
 
I will also add that at first, I did not like Reflect simply because I was using it incorrectly... after giving it a second chance, it is my go to fine finishing polish. I haven't touched SF4500 since... actually, I sold most of my SF4500 :)
 
Zach, elaborate on your technique. I know what I have done with Reflect on the last M5 I did and I really liked it as a final finishing polish.

HUMP
 
I enjoy using reflect and got great results. In fact here is a Kia I used just Reflect on before coating with CQUK.

Not the best but here was a before:


Reflect and CQUK

 
Zach, elaborate on your technique. I know what I have done with Reflect on the last M5 I did and I really liked it as a final finishing polish.

HUMP

There are a couple of things that seemed to make Reflect work amazing for me... all of this came from the instructions Corey gave me after I expressed frustration to him about using the polish.

Initially I was having issues with Reflect leaving marring, sometimes even on harder paints. This was very annoying to me, and I let my ego get the best of me so I just brushed it off as a "product issue" not a technique issue.

I explained to Corey that I was priming my pad, then using 2-3 pea size drops of product just like I do with most other polishes. I was also using it with a finishing pad - often a black LC flat pad.

After some discussion, it was explained to me that Reflect is unique in that very little product is required, and a firmer pad (note firmer, not necessarily more aggressive) is often preferred as it helps to break down the abrasives quicker.

I then proceeded to test a section with the following technique... I did not prime the pad, but instead used 4-5 very small drops of product spaced around the outer face of a yellow Rupes fine pad. I then worked the product for two passes on speed 4 with some pressure on my Rupes LHR21. I finished with one pass (you can do 2 if needed) at speed 2.5-3 with no pressure. After these 3 passes, the product had almost disappeared on the surface, and I was left with a perfect finish! I then proceeded to another section and this time just used 3 small drops of product (don't need as much after the first section or two) and used the same technique and again got perfect results.

I have continued using this method with incredible results. The finish is just awesome... noticeably better than other polishes on certain paints.


This photo shows how Reflect really amped up the color and clarity in this paint. The right side is after heavy cutting... the finish is still pretty darn good, and unless I had showed you this 50/50 you'd probably think it was about LSP ready. The left side was polished with Reflect using the same process mentioned above.
10375088_458807727590685_8782017613191103787_n.jpg





So, key points for using Reflect being:
- Use Very Little Product
- Use a 'Firmer' Finishing Pad
- Use a longer throw DA if available
- Start with moderate pressure and slightly faster machine speed
- Finish with no pressure and slower machine speed
- Wipe away effortlessly
- Smile :)


** It is probably worth noting that I only use Reflect as a fine polish after compounding. I have never attempted to use it as a one-step, though I know many people have done so with great results. I am not sure if this process will allow for maximum defect removal needed in a one-step so you may have to alter the process in that situation**
 
There are a couple of things that seemed to make Reflect work amazing for me... all of this came from the instructions Corey gave me after I expressed frustration to him about using the polish.

Initially I was having issues with Reflect leaving marring, sometimes even on harder paints. This was very annoying to me, and I let my ego get the best of me so I just brushed it off as a "product issue" not a technique issue.

I explained to Corey that I was priming my pad, then using 2-3 pea size drops of product just like I do with most other polishes. I was also using it with a finishing pad - often a black LC flat pad.

After some discussion, it was explained to me that Reflect is unique in that very little product is required, and a firmer pad (note firmer, not necessarily more aggressive) is often preferred as it helps to break down the abrasives quicker.

I then proceeded to test a section with the following technique... I did not prime the pad, but instead used 4-5 very small drops of product spaced around the outer face of a yellow Rupes fine pad. I then worked the product for two passes on speed 4 with some pressure on my Rupes LHR21. I finished with one pass (you can do 2 if needed) at speed 2.5-3 with no pressure. After these 3 passes, the product had almost disappeared on the surface, and I was left with a perfect finish! I then proceeded to another section and this time just used 3 small drops of product (don't need as much after the first section or two) and used the same technique and again got perfect results.

I have continued using this method with incredible results. The finish is just awesome... noticeably better than other polishes on certain paints.


This photo shows how Reflect really amped up the color and clarity in this paint. The right side is after heavy cutting... the finish is still pretty darn good, and unless I had showed you this 50/50 you'd probably think it was about LSP ready. The left side was polished with Reflect using the same process mentioned above.
10375088_458807727590685_8782017613191103787_n.jpg





So, key points for using Reflect being:
- Use Very Little Product
- Use a 'Firmer' Finishing Pad
- Use a longer throw DA if available
- Start with moderate pressure and slightly faster machine speed
- Finish with no pressure and slower machine speed
- Wipe away effortlessly
- Smile :)


** It is probably worth noting that I only use Reflect as a fine polish after compounding. I have never attempted to use it as a one-step, though I know many people have done so with great results. I am not sure if this process will allow for maximum defect removal needed in a one-step so you may have to alter the process in that situation**

Is there any chance you have any Menzerna left with you? You can do a 50-50 Menzerna and Reflect.
 
Great advice from Zach. I had nothing but success with Reflect on Rupes Yellow, LC HT Tangerine, LC White Hybrid. Using Rupes 15,21, Flex 3401, and rotary.
 
Is there any chance you have any Menzerna left with you? You can do a 50-50 Menzerna and Reflect.


I do, however I am done working for the year... The Finish between these 2 would most likely not be noticeable on most paints.

The real benefit of Reflect over SF4500 is that Reflect wipes away effortlessly and leaves almost no residual product or oils on the surface where SF4500 is very oily. There is a place for each product (says the guy who has over 20 bottles of compound/polish sitting on my shelf :) ), but I find myself grabbing Reflect much more often.
 
I am a menzerna fan and love both 4000 and 4500. Frankly, they at the only polishes I use.

I am also a big carpro fan and corey is awesome.

Has anyone done a comparison of these to reflect? Positive threads here on reflect but wanted to see if anyone had directly compared to provide insight.

Reflect is on BOGO now so I am anxious to pick up some.

Thanks.
Only ones you use???
 
Thanks Zach, I actually had great results with Reflect using the same technique, but I did use a finishing pad...Well, not the black, but more of one step above that so probably a little less firm than the Rupes Yellow, and a little firmer than the black. I also did the same thing, no priming, very small dots and just like your experience, finishes down to almost nothing and wipes away easy. The only thing that I found different was that I did this with a Griots machine and not my Rupes, but I still got phenomenal results.

HUMP
 
Thanks....do you guys think the actual finishes are the same between Reflect and Menzerna, e.g., shine, depth, clarity? That would be my major reason to try out Reflect.

Con man --- I have all the menzerna line from 400 to 4500...so I meant all I use are menzerna polishes.....
 
I think you can get similar results yes, but when applied correctly the ease of use with Reflect trumps the fact of having to get rid of the heavy oil residue in the Menz. I do have Menzerna and I use those as well.

HUMP
 
Thanks....do you guys think the actual finishes are the same between Reflect and Menzerna, e.g., shine, depth, clarity? That would be my major reason to try out Reflect.



Con man --- I have all the menzerna line from 400 to 4500...so I meant all I use are menzerna polishes.....


It's nearly impossible to claim that they are "exactly the same". As mentioned, both are great finishing polishes. I grab Reflect more often because it is just so much easier to use in terms of residue removal which is a big deal since I apply paint coatings to most vehicles.
 
It's nearly impossible to claim that they are "exactly the same". As mentioned, both are great finishing polishes. I grab Reflect more often because it is just so much easier to use in terms of residue removal which is a big deal since I apply paint coatings to most vehicles.


Other day I posted a question about SF 4000 and if it is a necessary to do a wipe down afterwards if I'm going to top it with polymer sealant. Mike replied to my post, he suggested that IPA Wipe down isn't necessary. Unless you're doing coating or sealant manufacture require you to do a wipe down.

Anyway, fast forward... I applied SF 4000, let it dry and wiped away with microfiber towel and followed it by buffing the area with fresh towel. Good results and no stress about oils.
 
Other day I posted a question about SF 4000 and if it is a necessary to do a wipe down afterwards if I'm going to top it with polymer sealant. Mike replied to my post, he suggested that IPA Wipe down isn't necessary. Unless you're doing coating or sealant manufacture require you to do a wipe down.

Anyway, fast forward... I applied SF 4000, let it dry and wiped away with microfiber towel and followed it by buffing the area with fresh towel. Good results and no stress about oils.


Right... Which is why I mentioned most of my work involved coatings.

If I was just using traditional protection the residue concerns wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal.
 
Right... Which is why I mentioned most of my work involved coatings.

If I was just using traditional protection the residue concerns wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal.

Pretty interesting input on Reflect, it's good to know I'll have to try something 'new' for my yellow Rupes pads. Your technique will be my starting point, thanks for the depth.


SF4000 (that I use) seems to prefer my white rupes pads, I'm never really happy with the way it finishes on yellow (ok, it's ~99%, but we are the most OCD regarding this, right?! :buffing: )

On the other hand, it goes well with LC polishing pads (white in example). I reiterate for you try using similar to your technique for reflect when 'Menzerning', few drops and no pad priming (other than a conditioner / QD to soft the foam). Pad brushing is a must before adding more drops to the pad, after each section.

Reflect in Brazil costs ~1/2 a Menzerna, and I'd like to have a 'cheaper' option for some works without sacrificing quality. In this case, it's likely quality will maintain or still raise, I'll be getting some soon.

My 'tip from heart' to work with Menzerna products is to use this:

wolfgang-concours-series-microfiber-towel-1.gif

Wolfgang Concours-Series Microfiber Towel, german towel

I admit they 'tried to lint' a bit on the first use (which I dislike), but after proper washing it never happened again.

Many conventional (even quality) MF towels generally spread the polish oil side to side while wiping off, making it the true PITH to remove. This one grab it firmly and carefully with one or two towel flips you'll barely need IPA / similar to guarantee full removal.

No more oily smearing when inspecting results with light is also very straightforward.

Notice, although quoting, my answer is general and not only directed to Zach. Hope this can help someone reading in the future.

Kind Regards.
 
I want to thank spewking for his comments on Reflect vs. Menzerna SF4500 comparo.

I am an avid user of SF4500, however, I do not use a coating. I am a Sealant/Wax guy. I have had no issues with SF4500, in fact it is my go to for polishing or jeweling. I love the stuff.

That being said; I will be trying a small bottle of Reflect thanks to this review. I am curious what the aluminum oxide (in Reflect) and Nano particles can bring out the gloss in the car.

I want to thank spewking for bringing this product to my attention as I never even knew Reflect existed.

As detailers it is always great to try different products and see your results. Some will agree others may disagree, however, it just makes us better at what we do.
 
HD Polish is the easiest finishing polish I've ever used and produces excellent results.
 
HD Polish is the easiest finishing polish I've ever used and produces excellent results.

Good to add this option to the Vs list.

If I'm not terribly wrong, PBMG will start selling HD products?

How those polishes (Reflect / HD) performs on scratch resistant like Ceramiclear ? Do this make any difference?

Thank you in advance.
 
Back
Top