coatings useless or fantastic? what do you think??

[builthatch]

I firmly believe that the lack of data is simply because the brands providing the products, on the whole, have no technical knowledge of the product, have limited to no input to the development and are unwilling to spend the time and money actually getting experts to do the necessary tests, when that money could be spent on marketing instead.

i agree with this.

do you think that the market feedback over time from pros and ams is worthy empirical feedback that might override what the manufacturer says, testing or not?

i know of a lot of people in this market who love CQuartz coatings and Corey has carved out a nice niche supplying it based on that. some of the people have been using CP stuff for a few years. pros who have many returning customers and amateurs who enjoy the benefits that align with my personal thoughts on the benefits of the tech.

there is a purgatory for products that are newly released where marketing hype might influence purchases and the jury is still out. but if a product sucks...it seems to lose traction pretty quickly in this market because of chatter on forums like this. largely, if it's good, the opposite happens. like the CarPro example above, there are a lot of people who like the various brands of coatings and see how they react every day on their vehicles OR install them every day and maintain cars that are coated.

Seems to me that most people who have had or applied them selves a "coating" usually are the ones who keep their vehicle in a garage. Thus not to be beaten on by the elements 24hrs a day. Could this change the way look at coatings? I personally am skeptical of them but that is probably due to lack of experience with them.

how did you arrive to the conclusion of the point in bold? people who care about their cars tend to park them in garages if they have one or have the space available, but there are plenty who don't have that luxury.

i have two coated vehicles right now and one is garaged, one is not (ever). i'm right down the middle lol. i've been able to gain insight into coating functionality with both vehicles. durability in the general elements is one aspect of coatings, so the one that's outside is in that group. but both vehicles, even the garaged one, can be subject to things like bird doo and such. and both can demonstrate ability to stay cleaner, longer and offer easier cleaning when they do have to be cleaned.

 

[allenk4]

Great point Brad

Realistic claims from a company that manufactures their own chemicals

 

[Dannyk]

Like others who have read and spoken in this thread, i also felt where is the real statistics so we can read and formulate an honest decision with the different coatings today. If you go to Bob is the Oil Guys web site, there is so much data presented to maybe weed out suspect products,in other words Real World data. We as a community have done things by reading and experiencing what a or b product does or doesn't do, but where is the data per se? Glad there is a source like this to talk and get further educated instead of spending more money than i have at my disposal.

 

[Woob]

Just my opinion:

I think coatings protect better than waxes or sealants due to their chemistry/means of adhering to the paint. Preparation of the paint surface is fundamental paint correction, there is no bypassing or thinking you can cover up damage on a paint surface. Maintenance is HUGE! You can perfect a vehicle and still ruin a coated vehicle despite all the coating hardness. If you have a good maintenance scheme, lack the time to constantly polish your vehicle, then coatings are a really good option.

I won't be going back to waxing/sealing wheels, coatings are beast for protection. There are too many entry / new coatings on the market now due to the money to be made. You can generally see which are reputable by how many top end detailers are installing them around the world.

Coatings aren't perfect, but man they are an upgrade to older conventional detailing practices.

 

[builthatch]

Just my opinion:

I think coatings protect better than waxes or sealants due to their chemistry/means of adhering to the paint. Preparation of the paint surface is fundamental paint correction, there is no bypassing or thinking you can cover up damage on a paint surface. Maintenance is HUGE! You can perfect a vehicle and still ruin a coated vehicle despite all the coating hardness. If you have a good maintenance scheme, lack the time to constantly polish your vehicle, then coatings are a really good option.

I won't be going back to waxing/sealing wheels, coatings are beast for protection. There are too many entry / new coatings on the market now due to the money to be made. You can generally see which are reputable by how many top end detailers are installing them around the world.

Coatings aren't perfect, but man they are an upgrade to older conventional detailing practices.

:xyxthumbs:

 

[Klasse Act]

Well said Woob:thumbup:

Sent from my SPH-M930 using Tapatalk 2

 

[FUNX650]

There are too many entry / new coatings on the market now due to the money to be made.

It appears to me that there'll also be just as many ways
that some will try to pocket, as much as possible, of that: "money to be made".

Unfortunately, some of those ways will not be
entirely on the up-and-up.


Bob

 

[slicksierra]

I have had an intresting experience with cquk. The water beading was nice. The self cleaning ability was average and the scratch resistance was I think worse than my clear coat. Maybe I had some contamination in my wash pad or drying towel but I had a lot of marring and small swirls after only one wash. My design for using the coating was better winter protection and I will most likely polish it off in the spring of summer. I'm a definite nuba head and I enjoy all lsp's and layering them but I do think coatings are cost efficient for what they aictaully do.

I have since polished and 're applied another layer of cquk and topped it with sonax pns. I think I am more impressed with the sonax pns than I am the coating.

 

[frankprozzoly]

Is it difficult polishing off the coating. Or is only intended to be polished off at the end of its life. What I don't understand is how coatings deteriorate. I watched a YouTube video on how it hardens to a glass or plastic. Whatever it is. Is it not quite as hard as clear coat? I would think that if the clear is protected it shouldn't fail so if a coating is protected why would that eventually fail?

 

[FUNX650]

Is it difficult polishing off the coating. Or is only intended to be polished off at the end of its life.

To me it would be difficult to polish-off just the micron or two thick Coating layer, without also polishing-off some Clear-Coat as well.

What I don't understand is how coatings deteriorate. I watched a YouTube video on how it hardens to a glass or plastic. Whatever it is. Is it not quite as hard as clear coat? I would think that if the clear is protected it shouldn't fail so if a coating is protected why would that eventually fail?

Here's how I view this deteriorating phenomenon:

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics:
(aka: "The Law of Decay")

-Nothing stays forever: fresh/new
-Everything ages and wears out

•Even chemical compounds ultimately "wear out" (break apart)
-Chemical compounds break apart into simpler materials;
-(Note: they do not ultimately become more complex.)

•"Coatings", and other LSPs, are chemical compounds.
-Therefore: They too will follow the "Law of Decay".

Bob

 

[frankprozzoly]

Well speak for yourself Bob. I'm 42 and I still look like I'm 16.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I will never using a coating on my car. I only like to use products that can be removed chemically.

 

[swanicyouth]

Well speak for yourself Bob. I'm 42 and I still look like I'm 16.

Lol. I found a driver's license from when I was 22. Showed it to a coworker and she said "Oh...you USED to be good looking".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FUNX650]

Well speak for yourself Bob. I'm 42 and I still look like I'm 16.

Just curious:

What "Coating" have you been using
for the last couple of decades...
to so successfully retard the deteriorating process?

TIA.


"Ol'Bob"...(Not to be confused with: "Ol'Yeller")

 

[Auto Concierge]

I have had an intresting experience with cquk. The water beading was nice. The self cleaning ability was average and the scratch resistance was I think worse than my clear coat. Maybe I had some contamination in my wash pad or drying towel but I had a lot of marring and small swirls after only one wash. My design for using the coating was better winter protection and I will most likely polish it off in the spring of summer. I'm a definite nuba head and I enjoy all lsp's and layering them but I do think coatings are cost efficient for what they aictaully do.

I have since polished and 're applied another layer of cquk and topped it with sonax pns. I think I am more impressed with the sonax pns than I am the coating.

Sonax PNS has BETTER water spot resistance than some Coatings, in fact some top a "Pro grade" coating with it(Well known fact among certain discussions in private Facebook forums out of sight of the masses) isn't the coating supposed to protect from that very issue or why utilize a product that can be outperformed by supposed "Lesser products" as far as a LSP is concerned?

I found this be true in my own experience and even though it is a opinion I might know what I am doing so no "User error" comments from the peanut gallery so that sort of comment will not be in play, product performance must match claims or eventually the market WILL correct that issue for you.

The things I could share about specific shady comments and claims/practices that would have many in the trade leave certain products and or people alone...................but who needs to spend money on a lawyer to defend truth.

Here it is in a nutshell, Coatings for the most part appeal to people who want a product they only have to pay for once and give them the false sense of security that the finish will not scratch ect................. and conversely the coatings allow certain guys to charge top dollar for minimal correction as the perception to the client is they get something tangible like clearfilm which clients will pay for as compared to a correction detail because the car needs proper maintenance to maintain what was done .

Let me be clear(As some did not perceive my thoughts correctly in a previous post) coatings can be a wonderful addition to your arsenal to protect a clients car, but realistic performance must be conveyed to the client and a regimen of proper maintenance to go with that.

The clients who I have truly shown what is best for their car in front of clipping them for max profit are clients for life!, to those who play fast and loose with the truth(You know who you are as you read these words) your day will come when that "Certain client" who figures out your shenanigans will put your service on blast on the forums/Facebook/yelp etc........

 

[frankprozzoly]

Lol. I found a driver's license from when I was 22. Showed it to a coworker and she said "Oh...you USED to be good looking".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

She should be fired

 

[frankprozzoly]

Just curious:

What "Coating" have you been using
for the last couple of decades...
to so successfully retard the deteriorating process?

TIA.


"Ol'Bob"...(Not to be confused with: "Ol'Yeller")

I still play in the mud

 

[builthatch]

I will never using a coating on my car. I only like to use products that can be removed chemically.

as a hobbyist, i get it. but also, as a hobbyist, you can apply coating very affordably to act as the substrate for your other products. pretend it's part of your clear coat or came with the car and play with whatever you desire on top. this way when your favorite chemically-removable LSP fails at preventing cc etching from the first bird bomb, at least the etching will be taking place on the coating, not clear coat. btw i've seen first hand what happens with bug and bird bombs on coating...it's pretty neat.

but yeah, it's a trade off. you aren't alone among people who like to play with their own vehicles. it's therapeutic for many. that's why Gloss-Coat is advertised as being able to be topped or layered...for people who like to play around. but you have to think that if an LSP can be removed chemically, that means it's assuredly going to be more susceptible to everything environmental, things which coatings are designed to keep from clear coat.

in my own experiences, polishing a coating is possible without it being removed, poli-seal and OPT finish in particular as the polishes. my thread recently with the IPA wipe has been a good test for me on this. polishing a "normal" sealant or wax isn't doable, at least the products i've worked with - it disappears instantly if it wasn't already removed by a stripping bath. so that to me is indicative of a coating having either a harder surface, a thicker film build or both. i like that, even though i'm also a dork who can't keep his hands off vehicles that 999 out of 1000 people would say looks perfect already.

 

[slicksierra]

Is it difficult polishing off the coating. Or is only intended to be polished off at the end of its life. What I don't understand is how coatings deteriorate. I watched a YouTube video on how it hardens to a glass or plastic. Whatever it is. Is it not quite as hard as clear coat? I would think that if the clear is protected it shouldn't fail so if a coating is protected why would that eventually fail?

Yes it is difficult to polish off. I used a light polish on some panels and noticed I was only polishing the coat not the paint. Other panels I compounded with a mf cutting disk. I noticed I started correcting the paint underneath further so at that point the coating had been removed. It's my understanding that coatings get damaged before they deteriorate, meaning that they become damaged to the point they should be polished and fixed before they deteriorate off.

 

[slicksierra]

Sonax PNS has BETTER water spot resistance than some Coatings, in fact some top a "Pro grade" coating with it(Well known fact among certain discussions in private Facebook forums out of sight of the masses) isn't the coating supposed to protect from that very issue or why utilize a product that can be outperformed by supposed "Lesser products" as far as a LSP is concerned?

I found this be true in my own experience and even though it is a opinion I might know what I am doing so no "User error" comments from the peanut gallery so that sort of comment will not be in play, product performance must match claims or eventually the market WILL correct that issue for you.

The things I could share about specific shady comments and claims/practices that would have many in the trade leave certain products and or people alone...................but who needs to spend money on a lawyer to defend truth.

Here it is in a nutshell, Coatings for the most part appeal to people who want a product they only have to pay for once and give them the false sense of security that the finish will not scratch ect................. and conversely the coatings allow certain guys to charge top dollar for minimal correction as the perception to the client is they get something tangible like clearfilm which clients will pay for as compared to a correction detail because the car needs proper maintenance to maintain what was done .

Let me be clear(As some did not perceive my thoughts correctly in a previous post) coatings can be a wonderful addition to your arsenal to protect a clients car, but realistic performance must be conveyed to the client and a regimen of proper maintenance to go with that.

The clients who I have truly shown what is best for their car in front of clipping them for max profit are clients for life!, to those who play fast and loose with the truth(You know who you are as you read these words) your day will come when that "Certain client" who figures out your shenanigans will put your service on blast on the forums/Facebook/yelp etc........

Good info here right now I am more impressed with my sonax pns than my coating but I have never used pns standalone so there is a possibility that I am happy with the combo that I have (CQUK + PNS)