Guitar detailing 101?

[damaged442]

Love that finish on the PRS. Definitely don't see many like that, thats for sure! I would play it exactly like it is!!

 

[MarkD51]

Resale???
Years ago I got a deal on a blond with maple 75 P-bass. I didn't like the color but loved the sound. Zip stripped it,sanded and a coat of black Krylon everyday for a month...0000 steel wool in between. Then on the final coat I rubbed it out with Gel-gloss because that is what I had.
Guy at the hip guitar store told me it was the best DIY paint job he had ever seen. After I told him. Never liked maple necks and sold it.
Still have a 87American standard strat and 93 American standard J-bass with rosewood necks. And they bathe in lemon oil.

Point is play it like it is or change it with some sandpaper/steel wool.

If it was mine that raw look and texture would have to go. I'ld sand it smooth then start rubbing oil in

God, I'm just a turd, and cannot relate how many cool pieces I've owned.

As I previously mentioned, 3 Alembic Basses, one a Europa 4 string, which I quickly dumped with a back bowed neck. (Neck through) 5 Fender Basses, which were 3 P-Basses, one I should've never sold, a '62 American Re-Issue in Mary Kaye see through white finish Tortoiseshell Pickguard, all Gold Hardware (Bought from Dan Lakin of Lakeland Basses. 62 Re-issue J-Bass. Another with a screwed up neck which I later dumped.

A brand new Pedulla Thunderbass 4 which I turned down at $2500, cause the face of it looked like Home Depot Plywood with bubbles and flaws all over the finish.

Two Modulus Quantum 4 and 5 Basses totaling $6K (bought the same day at Rosell Music in St Charles, Ill) the one I had custom built, Swamp Ash Body, Lambswool quilt top, dual walnut center stripes, headstock laminated in quilt maple, all gold hardware, EMG pickups with active EQ, and sprayed in a honeyburst Amber tint clear.

The other a 5 string in burl-quilt maple, cocobolo fretboard, no dot markers gold hardware, EMGs, Alder Body. Both absolutely flawless and magnificent. Similar honeyburst tint, but darker, So beautiful both, you didn't even want to touch them.

Oh, and my mint Rickenbacker Chris Squire Limited Edition Bass (1 of 1000) 4001V63 which I should've never sold. Beautiful, but felt like a coal shovel in my hands.

51 P-Bass Re-Issue, 52 Tele American re-issue in Butterscotch Blonde two Strats, A Les Paul in all black with gold hardware (a muther to keep clean)

I've thought of buying many uber expensive instruments back then, the playboy strat, with Marylin Monroe Airbrushed on the front, Lace Sensors, a cool $10K, PRS Dragons, $8k, then $11K, then $13K, then $15K, then $20K. One had one ounce of pure 24ct gold in the neck. Price? $40K

400 pieces of Abalone, Mother of Pearl, and Turquoise inlade in the neck on the older Dragons..

I kept two, both '62 re-issue Fender P-Basses. They always felt right in my hands. and the sound too.

 

[k4df4l]

I've polished a bunch of guitars. Most right before I sold them Here's my SG; the nitro had accumulated plenty of scuffs and swirls over several years of knocking around. Turned out great and really made the guitar look brand new...I should have taken some before/after shots:

I also painted, sanded and polished this Warmoth body in olympic white acrylic lacquer for a build I did a couple years ago:

For the OP, w/r/t cleaning, I usually find a damp microfiber is ample for cleaning off the accumulated sweat & dust that'll get on your instrument. I'll usually wipe the guitar down every time I do a string change. If you do this periodically, you'll typically never really need anything more aggressive. Clean hands are something a lot of guys never think about...grimy hands = grimy guitar.

 

[spazzz]

MarkD51 ..your crazy......but with good taste...lol

k4df4l....excellent work..I am impressed.

My favorite thing is my Jbass EMGs and the neck&bridge pickups on my Strat. I played with a rich boy who had a new guitar evry month. He showed up with a 69 or 70 Hendrix white re-issue he bought for some crazy 2500and change. He wanted to swap my Bartolini neck and Hot rails bridge for the Hendrix pickups. Sure!!
They are classic oinky sounding Fenders. Clean, funky or step on a violence pedal for chaos.

 

[MarkD51]

I've polished a bunch of guitars. Most right before I sold them Here's my SG; the nitro had accumulated plenty of scuffs and swirls over several years of knocking around. Turned out great and really made the guitar look brand new...I should have taken some before/after shots:

I also painted, sanded and polished this Warmoth body in olympic white acrylic lacquer for a build I did a couple years ago:

For the OP, w/r/t cleaning, I usually find a damp microfiber is ample for cleaning off the accumulated sweat & dust that'll get on your instrument. I'll usually wipe the guitar down every time I do a string change. If you do this periodically, you'll typically never really need anything more aggressive. Clean hands are something a lot of guys never think about...grimy hands = grimy guitar.

Beautiful. Loved the sound many of those SG's could produce. In the right hands of course.

What's better than an SG with one neck? One that has two!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q7Vr3yQYWQ

 

[LowSlowJoe]

Well, I couldn't help myself... I went at it with some Ultimate compound cleaned things up around the pickups and tremolo bridge. I'm pretty happy with how it's turned out... given this guitar is new to me, I would have been constantly annoyed by the odd transitions from dull to shiny around these areas... So, to me, my guitar now looks 'good' to me...

Regardless of what the guy from PRS told me today, I am still thinking this is Nitrocellulose lacquer. I have the original hang tag that was on the guitar, it lists the model as "ST24 Nitro" the data inside the milled out rear pickup area indicates it had a SATIN finish. "The PRS Guitar Book" indicates that Standard 24 Satin guitars from 2006 forward had 'nitro-cellulose colours'.

But then, the reality is that it probably doesn't really matter if it's nitrocellulose or not... It is what it is.

Chances are, I'll keep this guitar for a long long time, I really do love the way it plays and sounds. I've had a great interest in PRS guitars every since I saw David Grissom playing one way back in the 80s, when he was in Joe Ely's band. So, I do have a soft spot in my heart for the PRS. This one fits my pocket book and is , perhaps a little different then your typical PRS with all their fancy maple tops.

If I really wanted to get it back to a more SATIN finish, I'm confident I could do that. I think given the finish is more consistent now, I think it would be easier to get it back to all satin then it would have been before I used the ultimate compound.

 

[damaged442]

You are correct that your finish is nitrocellulose. PRS website calls it out specifically with the satin. Nice score indeed!!

 

[k4df4l]

k4df4l....excellent work..I am impressed.

Beautiful. Loved the sound many of those SG's could produce.

Thanks guys.

Regardless of what the guy from PRS told me today, I am still thinking this is Nitrocellulose lacquer. I have the original hang tag that was on the guitar, it lists the model as "ST24 Nitro" the data inside the milled out rear pickup area indicates it had a SATIN finish. "The PRS Guitar Book" indicates that Standard 24 Satin guitars from 2006 forward had 'nitro-cellulose colours'.

PRS hasn't used nitro on many guitars but yeah, the Standard Satin 22s & 24s were promoted as having a satin nitro finish. Either way, enjoy your new guitar!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Well, see there you go... I could take a entirely different approach and start putting stickers all over it , then dragging it behind my car on the way to work.

:laughing:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Yes, well there seems to be a lot of misinformation in general about silicone

Even more so when it comes to issues related to musical instruments... Near as I can tell, I only have two real concerns about silicone... one is that I'm not sure I want any of it getting on my fretboard. The other, is as it relates to potentially getting into the wood itself bellow the surface of the finish on the body/neck.

Valid concern now that I've seen a picture of the actual finish on the wood. In my first reply I was imagining a smooth glossy paint job. Amazing what a few pictures will do to tell the rest of the story.


:xyxthumbs:

 

[LowSlowJoe]

For the most part, the issue of polish residuals getting into the low spots in the grain hasn't been a issue. However looking closer at what I have now, I do see some signs of that issue. I think I'm going to take some naphtha and some sort of relatively soft bristle brush and try to clean out those areas. Given this issue... I'm certainly re-thinking the idea of putting a actual paint sealant on top of the finish.

Having said that... Something like Opti-seal that is clear could work... but then, if I were to do this, I wouldn't even really be able to see the stuff down in that grain. Which is a pro and a con... as long as it stayed clear and nice looking the opti-seal would keep other contaminants from getting to the nitrocellulose ( for now I'm assuming that is what my finish really is ). However the con is... that I'm not sure I'd ever get all of that stuff off the guitar if it ever did become a problem.

So, for now I'm leaning toward not putting any paint sealant on the guitar, just lightly cleaning it over time and/or just figuring that any future changes to finish are just badges of honor from playing...

From what I can see, the finish to me looks like it was originally satin, and was left purposely with an open grain type finish and look.

Thus, my thinking if you were to apply any type of glaze or to polish the finish with what we commonly use in the auto world, those residues left behind in the polishing-glazing processes may become trapped in the open grain-pores, and then become virtually impossible to remove.

You could try a very small area on the back of the instrument and see what he results are? Note that I think personally that you'll be taking a chance doing such.

Usually the spray waxes from the various guitar makers shouldn't be problematic, should enhance some gloss and eveness to a point.

Other alternatives, if you are not liking the existing finish, want to change it to a high gloss one, I'd probably look to a professional Luthier for such.

 

[k4df4l]

I'd leave it alone....sealing or coating the guitar is somewhat a solution searching for a problem that doesn't really exist. IMO

 

[MarkD51]

Sounds like you've gotten some improvement, and that's good.

I imagine what you were seeing on the satin finish, is areas where rubbing from hands, fingers, clothes took place, and those areas appeared glossier in comparison to other areas on the guitar, correct?

I know with the two used basses I had on hand, the Rickenbacker Chris Squire, and the '62 American Fender P-Bass in rare Mary Kaye finish both had less than stellar pickguards. The Fender was easy, simply a new 3 ply white-black-white pickguard from Fender for $15 and all screw holes lined up. Only some minor inletting around the pickups was required for a perfect fit.

The Chris Squire Bass was more problematic. Only a 1000 built, and only a 1000 pickguards they wanted out there, for fear of conterfeitiing such a model, which meant sending them the original pickguard to get another new one.

The one they sent me, not one hole lined up, and the new pickguard was actually in worse shape than the old one. These pickguards are clear acrylic, backsprayed white, with the Chris Squire Sig placed first before spraying white on the back.

Luckily, they did not toss the old pickguard, and then found a suitable, better shape replacement.

Idiotically, I sold both those basses, made a nice profit on both, but both are worth quite a bit more today than what I sold them for. If, you can find a Rick Chris Squire Bass, or '62 P-Bass in Mary Kaye finish, both mint and in like new, or being in unplayed new condition, you will be shocked at their costs. I seen one Rickenbacker on ebay some time back at $6K.
http://www.rickenbackerguitars.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/-802805093804380.jpg

Mark

 

[LowSlowJoe]

Yes, the guitar when I got it, had some areas that were still 'SATIN' looking, but areas where the player's arm had rubbed on it, were glossy... which would have been fine, if the only glossy parts were from normal playing and not much else...

However, around the bridge and pickups, where it was hard to reach with a finger, those areas were dirty/satin, yet you could see where the previous owner/user had wiped the area down without much regard for the fact that he was creating a glossy finish 1/2" from the bridge but leaving dirt and the normal satin finish up close to the bridge... under the strings, you could see they pushed their finger with cloth up under the strings between the pickups... it was shiny where he could easily reach, but dull further in, where it was harder to reach...

So, basically, if the original owner had been more careful with the way they cleaned , I would have just left it as it was... But I was REALLY annoyed by the inadvertent polishing they did while carelessly trying to clean up the guitar without taking strings off or otherwise trying to do a better job.

So, my solution to this annoyance was to do my own cleaning, shine up the areas near this annoyance , and make the guitar look more uniformly shiny.

This guitar isn't really of high value... I think it's worth what I paid for it, and I feel is still worth every bit of what I paid for it. If you were to go out and buy a PRS new today... you either get a totally off shore made guitar for $800(SE models), or you go a step upward to a S2 model that's wood parts are made in the USA, but electronics and other hardware are made overseas, and the guitar final assembly done in USA for about $1300. Or.... you go full bore USA PRS Custom with maple top for roughly $2800( starting point). So, my 9 year old PRS Standard, with 100% USA made parts, pieces, and assembly costs me $900... you won't find a better PRS at that price , unless you really stumble across someone needing cash in a hurry.

Sounds like you've gotten some improvement, and that's good.

I imagine what you were seeing on the satin finish, is areas where rubbing from hands, fingers, clothes took place, and those areas appeared glossier in comparison to other areas on the guitar, correct?

I know with the two used basses I had on hand, the Rickenbacker Chris Squire, and the '62 American Fender P-Bass in rare Mary Kaye finish both had less than stellar pickguards. The Fender was easy, simply a new 3 ply white-black-white pickguard from Fender for $15 and all screw holes lined up. Only some minor inletting around the pickups was required for a perfect fit.

The Chris Squire Bass was more problematic. Only a 1000 built, and only a 1000 pickguards they wanted out there, for fear of conterfeitiing such a model, which meant sending them the original pickguard to get another new one.

The one they sent me, not one hole lined up, and the new pickguard was actually in worse shape than the old one. These pickguards are clear acrylic, backsprayed white, with the Chris Squire Sig placed first before spraying white on the back.

Luckily, they did not toss the old pickguard, and then found a suitable, better shape replacement.

Idiotically, I sold both those basses, made a nice profit on both, but both are worth quite a bit more today than what I sold them for. If, you can find a Rick Chris Squire Bass, or '62 P-Bass in Mary Kaye finish, both mint and in like new, or being in unplayed new condition, you will be shocked at their costs. I seen one Rickenbacker on ebay some time back at $6K.
http://www.rickenbackerguitars.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/-802805093804380.jpg

Mark

 

[LowSlowJoe]

Here's a sort of before and after...

The first photo shows the 'SATIN' finish that remained around the strings/pickup area... Perhaps I was too picky, but to me this doesn't look like the kind of wear I would expect from playing a guitar... to me , it looks more like wear that was inflicted by somewhat sloppy cleanup of the guitar after playing it... Either way, this first shot shows the area that was kind of annoying to me when I looked at the guitar as it was when I obtained it....

the second shot is after I did a bit of cleaning/polishing

 

[LowSlowJoe]

PRS makes a guitar that they call the 'Starla' that's very similar to that SG of yours. I was very seriously considering buying one of these PRS Starla S2 guitars before I found the used PRS that I've been working on... I think PRS made a full USA made Starla in the past, but it seems it's only available now in the S2 series (partially american made ) they sell for about $1300 new.

I also considered some standard Gibson SG guitars, however I really wanted a tremolo, at one point I was considering buying a $800 american made SG throwing a brand new Floyd Rose NXR on it... ( they are new not quite yet available , tremolo that fits on top of standard Gibson bridge mounts with very little permanent modification needed to the guitar ). I had visions of doing some serious dive bombing with that setup... but it was going to wind up costing me about $1300+ to do that.

I've polished a bunch of guitars. Most right before I sold them Here's my SG; the nitro had accumulated plenty of scuffs and swirls over several years of knocking around. Turned out great and really made the guitar look brand new...I should have taken some before/after shots:

For the OP, w/r/t cleaning, I usually find a damp microfiber is ample for cleaning off the accumulated sweat & dust that'll get on your instrument. I'll usually wipe the guitar down every time I do a string change. If you do this periodically, you'll typically never really need anything more aggressive. Clean hands are something a lot of guys never think about...grimy hands = grimy guitar.

 

[MarkD51]

Yes, I now see what you're saying, that after awhile from cleaning around hardware this happens. Sometimes things like wax buildups, residues accumulate.

This is then where a tear down of hardware should be done if one wants the instrument to look in really nice pristine shape.

I've commonly stripped down those basses I earlier mention down to every last screw, the tuners, bridge, pickguards, strap pegs, everything.

This way when polishing, glazing or waxing, and when done, the instrument looks right.

Frets often dull out too, and I'd spend good time first treating the fretboads, then individually polishing each and every fret, re-treat, and good to go.
Mark

 

[LowSlowJoe]

I've been reading a bit more about the PRS Satin series... apparently it was the entire line was introduced in 2006. I'm wondering if my guitar isn't one of the first of them, given it's actual official build date was 12/29/2005 but is apparently a 2006 model. I also wonder what the significance is of the writing inside the area where the rear pickup goes... " 2006 NAMM SATIN FINSH" Could it be that this guitar was made to be on display in their booth that year? or is that just some common wording that would have been on virtually any guitar of this type and time period???

As I understand the origins of the 'SATIN' line, it started after the 2005 20th anniversary models in a satin finish sold so well. They then also realized they could make and sell these a bit cheaper because the finish didn't require as much work. Apparently people liked them because the finish was thin... and some felt that made them sound better too. But I suspect that price being cheaper also influenced a lot of purchases, just as it did for me when I got this guitar.

 

[LowSlowJoe]

After posting the photo of the sticker and writing, bellow my rear pickup over at the PRS forum, it seems there is a good chance that this guitar was part of the items displayed at the 2006 NAMM show. So I do think this is very likely one of the earliest of the PRS Standard 24s with the Satin finish. Still doesn't make it worth much , but it is kinda cool to know.

I've been reading a bit more about the PRS Satin series... apparently it was the entire line was introduced in 2006. I'm wondering if my guitar isn't one of the first of them, given it's actual official build date was 12/29/2005 but is apparently a 2006 model. I also wonder what the significance is of the writing inside the area where the rear pickup goes... " 2006 NAMM SATIN FINSH" Could it be that this guitar was made to be on display in their booth that year? or is that just some common wording that would have been on virtually any guitar of this type and time period???

As I understand the origins of the 'SATIN' line, it started after the 2005 20th anniversary models in a satin finish sold so well. They then also realized they could make and sell these a bit cheaper because the finish didn't require as much work. Apparently people liked them because the finish was thin... and some felt that made them sound better too. But I suspect that price being cheaper also influenced a lot of purchases, just as it did for me when I got this guitar.

 

[MarkD51]

After posting the photo of the sticker and writing, bellow my rear pickup over at the PRS forum, it seems there is a good chance that this guitar was part of the items displayed at the 2006 NAMM show. So I do think this is very likely one of the earliest of the PRS Standard 24s with the Satin finish. Still doesn't make it worth much , but it is kinda cool to know.

Quite interesting, and your research and hunches are probably correct.

All such instruments should be played. And such instruments that are so collectable that one worries about playing them for fear of damage. Sort of like certain unfired collectable firearms, Colt comes to mind, I got one here a single action that's 50 years old, a centennial, never been fired, nor turned. Doing so would considerably lower it's value.

Same with some very special guitars. PRS Dragons, Fender Custom Shop Playboy Strats etc, special edition Gibson Flying V's (once saw a Hendrix model, all white with gold hardware, triple pickups, it was magnificent!)

Saw, and heard a Harley Strat once at the Burbank Ill Guitar Center (sounded like ass), retail was a cool $20K. I saw it sold that day an hour later to a Harley Shop in I believe in Elgin, Ill. $16K plus the taxes put it at just a shade over $17K.