Pads and compounds

[AAezra]

Second post, first was in the introduction area. Hello again to everyone here as well

I have done a lot or reading and pretty much picked out the GG6 for my DA polisher. Now the question is compounds and pads. Trying to get the best value I can for my first purchase from AGO and the gg6 comes with m105, m205 8oz bottles and a few pads. This seems to be a great combo and keeps coming up especially when adding the Kevin brown method. Then there are the menzerna products which I have yet to figure out a good combo for that. I see they come packaged with the PC DA polisher but it's for ceramic clear coats?)

The vehicles I will be working on, 02 Mercedes clk320 ( black), 07 Saturn ion (silver) possibly 2 bmw 3 series both silver 97&2003
My main concern is the black vehicle but it would be nice if those compounds and pads would work for the silver cars as well. A already went over a heavily swirled and scratched area on the Benz with meguires #9 swirl 2.0 remover by hands very quickly and most of the swirls were gone. Once I washed that part of the car off the RIDS and swirls were prsent( product filled some of the swirls?) in short I think I'm headed in the right directions just need some guidance on what to choose and get . I do know the menzerna abrasive break down and have read they produce more heat then the m105,m205 combo and being that I'm a noob to using a DA i don't want do more harm than good and creating too much heat and causing a burn. But I guess each compound has its skill set,

Thanks,
FYI this takes forever to type on a mobile device:buffing:

 

[techy]

Depending on the condition on the benz 105 & 205 wont disappoint depending on using the right pads. I have a 08 bmw and lots of swirls and scratches. I used a porter cable with m105 & 205 & m21 And ill tell you people think its a new car. When i was done my car 3 people asked me to detail theirs as well. If i have a chance later ill post some pictures pf the finish.

 

[AAezra]

I am hoping to have the same results. Is 8oz enough to do a vehicle or several? and will the 5.5" pads be that much better then the 6-6.5" pads the GG6 kit comes with?

 

[techy]

Its really hard to say to be honest. 105 takes some getting used to because if you have excessive dusting it maybe because you are using to much pressure or not enough polish. So when i tell people to use is i always tell them to tape off the trunk do one section with a white pad and see how it comes out. If not enough cut go to a orange pad on the other section and compare. If its your first time too 105 sometimes appear to be enough but when you top it off with 205 the finish is really impressive. Take your time and work on a test spot. There is a how to on doing a test spot as well that you might want to take a look into. One thing i noticed is that you didnt mention a sealant and usinf 105 and 205 is a lot of work. You should really look into one if your going to do a 2 step.


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[AAezra]

thank you for the input. Sealant being the synthetic product used to protect all my work correcting the paint right? I was thinking just applying carnauba wax I already have every few months would be enough. Just read you're previous post. I gues some m21 is on the list if I go meguires route
Again thank you for the input

 

[techy]

Hi m21 just goes well with the 105 and 205. I picked up some while it was on sale plus a 20% off on top so worked out really nice. I liked it so much i ended up picking up another one as well since i am detailing my gf mothers car and a neighbours car.

As mentioned here are some pics from my 105+205+m21 (i didnt get a chance to take day pics and by the time i finished the trim it got a bit dark) for the trim i used poorboys trim restore. Wheels sonax full effect.

Rim and tire before:

After:

Engine before:

After:

Paint before (iphone flash so you cant see swirls but trust me they are there)

After:

Finish product with the m21:

(Big fan of these products in case it wasnt obvious lol)


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[cardaddy]

I dunno..... 105 as your first compound, with your first DA. You'd be better served to try Ultimate Compound, or better yet M101 (yes it's worth the money) or even M100, or 83 for that matter. Working with 105 is a lesson in humility and patience, yet SPEED. You absolutely MUST NOT work 105 but a couple of passes (3 tops) before wiping it off. Try to work it till it starts dusting and you're likely in a place where it'll not come off without some consternation.

My favorite compound these last couple of years has been D300 hands down. It's known as Meguiar's Microfiber Correction Compound as it was designed originally to be used with their microfiber pads, but trust me... it's a GREAT compound with orange and white Lake Country pads. Which brings up another idea for pads. Might as well pick up the Microfiber Correction kit. It comes with 2 cutting and 2 finishing pads (both microfiber) as well as a bottle of D301 polish/finishing wax, a bottle of D300, a Meguiar's backing plate that is designed to work with their microfiber pads. (This is CRITICAL as their pads/backing/Velcro system is engineered to work together.) Plus... they throw in a Meguiar's detailing apron (for free). Do make sure that you get the 5½" kit! This serves to get you the kit, as well as keeps you from buying a separate 5" backing plate for your other pads.

As for pads, you'll want 5½" pads all around. Get AT LEAST 4 orange, 4 white, 2 blue, 2 black. You'd be better served to get 6 white 3 blue, 3 black and 2 red to go with those 4 orange. Why? Because you'll find that you can use those white (and even the blue) pads with both compounds AND polishes. They'll end up being your most used pads.

 

[AAezra]

Wash and clay, swirl remover by hand then some 3m rubbing compound by n
Hand on a separate panel, lots of cracks that look like little bird prints last pic is just a wash and dry

 

[AAezra]

Swirl 2.0

 

[AAezra]

3m rubbing compound

 

[AAezra]

Wash and dry original condition of paint different part of hood tho

 

[AAezra]

Thought it looked pretty good until I put light on it . I have used a da before but it was pneumatic and was a sanding da. That m101 is pricey but seems to be specific to foam pads which looks good. 105 might do it after doing a bit of reading as it has some cutting ability and I would rather do a few extra passes then just 1 pass as you said the m105 would require. bear with me folks and keep the input coming. I tend to over analyst before making a purchase like this so I try to get as much info and advice as I can so I can make a good decision.

Thanks this far guys

 

[cardaddy]

I'll get more specific tomorrow er later today (when I'm not on my tablet). I have some photos here of a black BMW that was corrected with D300 , then Menz 4000 that you'll love.

 

[The Guz]

I dunno..... 105 as your first compound, with your first DA. You'd be better served to try Ultimate Compound, or better yet M101 (yes it's worth the money) or even M100, or 83 for that matter. Working with 105 is a lesson in humility and patience, yet SPEED. You absolutely MUST NOT work 105 but a couple of passes (3 tops) before wiping it off. Try to work it till it starts dusting and you're likely in a place where it'll not come off without some consternation.

My favorite compound these last couple of years has been D300 hands down. It's known as Meguiar's Microfiber Correction Compound as it was designed originally to be used with their microfiber pads, but trust me... it's a GREAT compound with orange and white Lake Country pads. Which brings up another idea for pads. Might as well pick up the Microfiber Correction kit. It comes with 2 cutting and 2 finishing pads (both microfiber) as well as a bottle of D301 polish/finishing wax, a bottle of D300, a Meguiar's backing plate that is designed to work with their microfiber pads. (This is CRITICAL as their pads/backing/Velcro system is engineered to work together.) Plus... they throw in a Meguiar's detailing apron (for free). Do make sure that you get the 5½" kit! This serves to get you the kit, as well as keeps you from buying a separate 5" backing plate for your other pads.

As for pads, you'll want 5½" pads all around. Get AT LEAST 4 orange, 4 white, 2 blue, 2 black. You'd be better served to get 6 white 3 blue, 3 black and 2 red to go with those 4 orange. Why? Because you'll find that you can use those white (and even the blue) pads with both compounds AND polishes. They'll end up being your most used pads.

I agree. Pick up some ultimate compound. M105 has a learning curve to it. I actually don't own it anymore since I have switched to M101 and D300. D300 works great with the new thin Meguiar's foam burgundy cutting pad and has been my go to lately for any compounding. I would pick up some of the new thin foam pads along with some Meguiar's microfiber cutting pads.

If you want t pick up products locally pick up some Ultimate compound and some M205. You can also pick up ultimate wax which is also a great sealant.

 

[Zubair]

For more serious defects which you will inevitably encounter, use FG400 with the 5.5" yellow LC flat pad on your DA. Thank me later ;-)

 

[AAezra]

I saw that combo fg400 with sf45000, Kobe looked great!

How often are you needling to change out foam pads, from the reading I have been doing on here( every waking min it seems) the meguires microfiber pads are pretty durable even machine washable and the compounds in the have a long work time as well as extending work time with other products which seems like a good pluses for a beginner like me.
I have a 60gallon compressor to clean the pads but I'm asu I got a little air or oil in the line won't hurt? I have never felt oil out the lines just a bit of water after its run for 30-45 min straight non stop

Thanks thus far for the input guys its helping narrowing down my choices

 

[cardaddy]

I saw that combo fg400 with sf45000, Kobe looked great!

How often are you needling to change out foam pads, from the reading I have been doing on here( every waking min it seems) the meguires microfiber pads are pretty durable even machine washable and the compounds in the have a long work time as well as extending work time with other products which seems like a good pluses for a beginner like me.
I have a 60gallon compressor to clean the pads but I'm asu I got a little air or oil in the line won't hurt? I have never felt oil out the lines just a bit of water after its run for 30-45 min straight non stop

Thanks thus far for the input guys its helping narrowing down my choices

With foam pads you'll want change out the pads fairly often. I wouldn't do more than half a hood, EVER with a pad. EVER!!! If its warm outside you'll want to used 3 pads. Either way you want to split the hood, (and any other areas) up into no more than 22"x22" squares and work that, generally stay inside your shoulders.

With foam pads you work each section, then clean the pad on the fly. Then work another section, again cleaning on the fly. Generally no more than two sections before pulling the pad off and letting it cool. If you have 4 pads MINIMUM for compounding you can pull off #1, let it cool, move to #2, work it a couple of sections, switch to #3, then #4, then back to #1 in a first in - first out situation. Generally when you pull the pad, feel the BACK of it for heat. Put it on the inside of your forearm, or on your cheek. If it's more than just warm DO NOT KEEP USING IT!

With microfiber pads it's a totally different situation. You work a section, ONE pass only, then pull the pad and blow it out with compressed air. Blow from the outside in, then inside out. Then do it again, just in the opposite direction. That'll both clean the pad as well as cool it. You can work half a hood using this method, then switch to your second pad. By using air to clean microfiber pads it's actually possible to do an entire vehicle with only 2 pads. Just be very VERY careful and make absolutely sure you keep the pads cool, not the front, but the BACK. I'd suggest more than 2, but I've used only 2 on multiple occasions with no problems.

Here are some shots of the BMW I was talking about earlier. Came from the dealer, complete with a massive case of DISO. (Dealer Installed Swirl Option), and even worse case of buffer trails/holograms. THIS is what a dealership does with a rotary buffer!

The 335 was done with D300 and an orange pad, then finished with Menz 4000 and a white pad on most of it, and a bit of blue pad on the hood.


I'll agree that you might actually want to try FG400 as it's one heckofa' nice compound. It'll correct like crazy, but it ALSO finishes down like you wouldn't believe. :dblthumb2:

Now using it with a yellow cutting pad however I'd not suggest, far from it. If, and only IF you've found out with an orange pad that it's not cutting, not correcting, and you are not getting the job done that you need..... THEN you carefully break out the yellow pad(s) and try from there. I've not used a yellow pad i 2 years though if that means anything. The microfiber pads will cut better, and not as likely to leave micromarring either.

 

[AAezra]

Very nice rendering of that paint cardaddy.. THANK YOU. For that advice on the pads heating up. I was more concerned with the surface getting too hot and totally forgot about the pad, and I wouldn't have thought to check the back of the pads, makes sense be the front of the pad gets product placed on it and cools the pad down meanwhile the back of the pad keeps heating up because there is no product applied to the back of the pad to cool it down? Either way that's the minds little important tips I really do appreciate thanks

 

[cardaddy]

Very nice rendering of that paint cardaddy.. THANK YOU. For that advice on the pads heating up. I was more concerned with the surface getting too hot and totally forgot about the pad, and I wouldn't have thought to check the back of the pads, makes sense be the front of the pad gets product placed on it and cools the pad down meanwhile the back of the pad keeps heating up because there is no product applied to the back of the pad to cool it down? Either way that's the minds little important tips I really do appreciate thanks

You're welcome sir. :cheers:

Don't really worry about heating up the paint with a DA, like you would with a rotary. Not that it won't... just that you'll have to be trying really hard, REALLY hard indeed. What you WILL heat up is the pad.

The reason a pad heats up is from the product, the friction within the pad, and especially the friction created by the Velcro. The wetter the pad gets... the longer it'll hold on to the heat. This is why it is CRITICAL to 'clean on the fly' after each section (with a old bath towel, and a pad brush). Wet pads will heat, and heat, and HEAT until they come apart.

The heat from the Velcro is why in the first generation of the Meguiar's microfiber pads they had pad failure. Once all those complaints started coming in, the engineers started looking at the problem and found that using their pads with a variety of backing plates the pads generated more heat (at the back) than they had originally taken into account for. This is why they ended up coming up with the "Microfiber Correction System" that has a *dedicated* backing plate with Velcro that matches both pad and plate. Once they did that, the complaints of pad delamination literally stopped.

That... and the fact that when working with microfiber pads you use air, a LOT of air and clean the pads after each section pass, which serves not only to clean the pad(s) but cool them as well.

 

[AAezra]

Velcro contacts on the pad creating heat makes sense now. What is a safe max temp that one should not exceed when compounding or buffing?

Finally placed my order and got the following
Griots garage 6" ( gg6)
Lake county flat pads 2 orange, 2 white, black/grey, blue/cyan
Lake county ccs pads 1 white 1 orange. All are 5.5" pads
5" backing plate
Menzerna FG400, PF2500, SP4000
Pad cleaning brush
Cobra guzzler 2 pack waffle weave drying towel
Grit guards
Black fire duo kit ( for brothers car)