FLEX XC 3401 first options?

What was the price of the Pink Flex last night? Look at it now.
 
7PaintGuns said:
So I ordered my pink FLEX XC 3401 last night and I need some help with what size plates and pads to buy. I've been reading quite a bit on the subject but I have specific techniques and needs. I purchased the Flex to assist with finishing, mostly on black and really dark colors to eliminate holograms. At the moment my only machine is the Dewalt DWP839. I am very proficient with the Dewalt using a 7" backing plate with the 3 step 3M pad and compound/polish system and I will still use them for removing sanding scratches and initial correction. Daily basis usage is usually for entire panel wet sanding that is usually blocked with 1500/2000 grit paper followed by 3000. If I am used to the 8" 3M wool, polish and finishing pads do you think I really need to go smaller with the pads for the Flex? Would it be a mistake to put a 7" 3M backing plate on the flex? I was looking at the 6.5" pads from LC but from most of the posts I've read people prefer the 5" pads but I'm not sure if that's because they are better for first step paint correction. Please give me your thoughts, thanks!
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Congrats on picking up the 3401!

Now that you have the two machines (839 & 3401) I would stick with the larger 3M wool pad on the rotary for pulling out sanding marks. The rotary and wool will outcut/outperform the 3401/wool combination every time.

Stick with the 839/wool for the first step and follow up with the 3401, polishing pad, and finishing polish such as SF3500. Going this route will also save you the most amount of time.

I would also start off with the larger 6.5" Hybrid pads on the 3401 in a body shop environment. The larger pad will allow you to save more time compared to the smaller 5" Hybrid pad.
 
Audios S6 said:
As above, lake country backing plate for the flex along with 5" hybrid pads. If just using for finishing, get some white and black pads. Also consider purchasing menzerna sf 3500 or 3800 if 3m superfina is
not working for you.

Superfina was meant as a rotary only polish, but was used by many on the DA as a jewelling step, it's likely you can get jewelling type results, but not likely to get much cut from it, better to go with sf 3500. There's an awesome thread by mike@dedicated perfection about his method with the flex, hybrid pads and menzerna; it's widely used and works wonders.
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Thanks for bringing that up. Below is the referenced like.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...rning-3401-menzerna-products-hybrid-pads.html
 
Boejoula said:
Might be off topic a little bit can I ask; how is the flex 3401 with a LC puprle hybrid wool pad at getting out wets sanding marks? Or should this always be done with a rotary?
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It is very efficient at pulling out sanding marks. Especially if you only one step sand the paint with 3K grit sandpaper.

However a rotary will always out perform the 3401. Here a rotary will be beneficial if you multi stage sand the paint.
 
Audios S6 said:
3500=old sf 4000
3800= old sf 4500

For a fair comparison (that is 3M tech to Menz's old tech)
Perfect-It 1=PG1000
Perfect-It 2=IP2000
Perfect-it 3=FF3000 or SF4500/3800

For a not-so-fair comparison (that is 3M tech to Menz's current tech)
Perfect-It 1=FG400 or SC300
Perfect-It 2=PF2500
Perfect-it 3=SF4000/3500 or SF4500/3800
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THIS

I'd go with menzerna's current tech, they are more expensive but they are amazing performers. In most cases, you could go straight from FG400 to SF4000, no need to make it a 3 step process like you do with 3M.
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:iagree:

You really can do a 2 step process with Menzerna no matter how aggressive you had to get in your first step.

In all my testing I have been able to finish properly with the 3401, white Hybrid pad, and SF4000 as my second step. Even if I had to use the PE14, Hybrid wool, and SC300 as my first step for correction the second combination has always finished it up LSP ready.
 
Boejoula said:
To answer the OP, these are the compounds I picked up to use with the flex and the lake county hybrid pads. From what I hear, this will cover almost anything you need to do. Purple, orange, white, and black pads.

Compound
Meguiars ultra cut 105
Menzerma Heavy cut 400

Polish
Menzerna medium cut polish 2500
Menzerna super finish 3500

I'll wait for more to chime in about the wet sanding part.
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Good stuff sir.

What will your sanding process consist of?
 
7PaintGuns said:
Another quick question. Can I dilute normal store bought 70% Isopropyl Alcohol with distilled water at 1:1 to use as in IPA wipe? Is there some special IPA I need to buy. I wouldn't think so but...
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Grab Menzerna Top Inspection. This is formulated as an "IPA wipe" to remove compound/polish to check your work while being body shop safe.
Menzerna Top Inspection, detail spray
 
Mike@DedicatedPerfection said:
Good stuff sir.

What will your sanding process consist of?
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As of now, I have order the Meguiars sanding block and 1k, 1.5k, 2k, 2.5k, and 3k wet sand paper. I am not great as wet sanding. All I do now is spot sand some scratches customers ask about. They come out pretty good but I can still find the sand marks when I look in the right light. They are happy, the boss is happy, that's what matters when I'm at work.

As for me, I'm looking to get really good at wet sanding so when my beater gets on the road I will attempt to wet sand the whole car but only have a 3401 and Griots 3in DA on the way.
 
WRAPT C5Z06 said:
I was referring to twisted wool. Should have been more specific. Do you feel a twisted wool pad will cut very well on the 3401?
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I don't think it really makes any difference as to how the 3401 works or feels as you buff. If you want to get aggressive with a Flex 3401 slap any traditional rotary buffer style wool cutting or polishing pad on the backing plate and get to chopping.



Boejoula said:
Might be off topic a little bit can I ask; how is the flex 3401 with a LC puprle hybrid wool pad at getting out wets sanding marks?
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It will work but it would be one of my last choices. Remember when it comes to removing sanding marks there's a lot of factors involved,

  • Depth of the scratches.
  • Hardness of the paint.
  • Type of compound
  • Technique


Boejoula said:
Or should this always be done with a rotary?
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Me personally? If I have to remove sanding marks I could do it by hand or with any polisher but I would choose the Flex PE14 with a 7.5" wool pad and just get in and get it over with.

Removing 100% of the sanding marks is a time consuming job. I wouldn't make it take any longer than it already takes using the most powerful tool the rotary buffer.

I have a time lapse video showing a 1964 Chevy Malibu sanded and buffed from start to finish in 10 minutes. In the real world I think it took me 12 hours.

:)
 
Mike@DedicatedPerfection said:
Congrats on picking up the 3401!

Now that you have the two machines (839 & 3401) I would stick with the larger 3M wool pad on the rotary for pulling out sanding marks. The rotary and wool will outcut/outperform the 3401/wool combination every time.

Stick with the 839/wool for the first step and follow up with the 3401, polishing pad, and finishing polish such as SF3500. Going this route will also save you the most amount of time.

I would also start off with the larger 6.5" Hybrid pads on the 3401 in a body shop environment. The larger pad will allow you to save more time compared to the smaller 5" Hybrid pad.
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Thanks for the reply! I definitely plan on using the 849 for sand scratch removal I just wanted to compare seeing as how this is my first DA. As far as work is concerned I will be using the 849 for compound and polish with a second polish with the Flex for swirl and hologram removal. The reason I asked about the pads is because I already have 3M pads provided for me at the shop. I'm working currently, I will have a more in depth comments when I get home!
 
Here's the new 3M list. Excuse the image a had to take a picture with my phone.
product20list_zpsb48v5yxs.jpg


The only thing that's changed is the polish from 06064 to 06094. Apparently it stays wet longer and isn't soaked into the pad as much (when we have the demo I will report back with more info). I will probably compare this to Menzerna 2500. Should be interesting using both products with the 3M pads. Then I'll try 3M/3M vs Menzerna/LC. Also it seems 3M now has an inspection spray!
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I don't think it really makes any difference as to how the 3401 works or feels as you buff. If you want to get aggressive with a Flex 3401 slap any traditional rotary buffer style wool cutting pad
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Interesting. I'm gonna have to try a 7" twisted wool pad. Will that result in holograms with the 3401?
 
If you do use the wool, watch the fibers around the centering hole - if there is one.

I've used the Meguiar's W4000, and fibers around the centering hole got up in the hole, and started to melt the velcro backing, and the velcro hooks on the plate around the hole.

Admittedly, I was pushing it a little bit, but it's not a bad idea to stay vigilant.
 
WRAPT C5Z06 said:
Interesting. I'm gonna have to try a 7" twisted wool pad.

Will that result in holograms with the 3401?
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Dual action orbital polishers don't inflice holograms. Holograms is a term that describes the specific scratch pattern inflicted into paint from a rotary buffer.

An orbital buffer can leave micro-marring also called tick marks or DA Haze but this is a very different scratch pattern than holograms.

An orbital buffer can leave buffer trails of micro-marring that is you can see the path the polisher was moved over the paint by the pattern of micro-marring left in the paint but this is still different than holograms.

The other part of the answer is "yes". Of course a fiber pad can and will leave scratches in the paint.


Fibers are a type of abrasive. - You can quote me on that.

:)
 
7PaintGuns said:
Thanks you saved me!



"WARNING
Do not chemically strip FRESH PAINT. Fresh paint has not fully cross-linked, dried and hardened. Introducing any type of solvent to the surface and allowing it to dwell could have a negative effect on the paint."

Woah heh lol. Good thing I asked, never even gave this any thought. I had planned on doing my tests on fresh paint.

:doh:
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The above is the FIRST paragraph in that article. It was Jason Rose that shared that little tidbit of advice with me when I was writing the IPA article.



Just to note...

I wrote the IPA article to prevent people from screwing up their paint or their customer's paint. Back when I wrote the article there were a handful of guys telling everyone to strip their paint with ZERO safety information or common sense.

I didn't even want to write the article but to counter all the really bad information be recommend by this handful of guys I did it anyway.


:)
 
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