Your reason for being pro or anti fillers...discuss

[Eldorado2k]

@Puckman. Wow really? That's weird, it's almost too simple through this iphone, you'd figure it'd work the same for your device but that sucks. Lol.

Have you tried imgur? DasBurninator let me know about that mobile site and it does work simple enough if you're interested. Just type .com after imgur and it's simple even a noob like me figured it out. Lol

 

[FUNX650]

•What are some of the purposes of "fillers"
being formulated into car-care products?

-Improves structural strength; aids in product
dispersion; adds chemical stability; for corrosion
resistance; enhances gloss and luster; adds to
impact resistance; durability; for heat and weather
resistance; opacity/diffuses light transmission;
adsorption; it can partially replace things like:
TiO2 and alumina (thereby improving product quality
and reduce production costs); as an electrical
insulator; tear resistance; tensile strength; aging resistance; solubility enhancement; abrasion resistance; smoothness; insulating properties; fire resistance; barrier properties; mildly abrasive formulations for metal cleaning; modify rheology; stain resistance; carrier for active ingredients; "nano’s", chemical-interaction for polymer structures…among many, many others.


Bob

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Mike, with your posts regarding fillers in polishes, it discredits why a product like this is even made...

Wolfgang Perfekt Finish Paint Prep

No matter what it's used for, it's still removing fillers.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, with your posts regarding fillers in polishes, it discredits why a product like this is even made...

Wolfgang Perfekt Finish Paint Prep

No matter what it's used for, it's still removing fillers.

I have no idea what you mean by your post Mark?


The Wolfgang Perfekt Finish Paint Prep is a wonderful product and it's supposed to remove polising oils and other substances off the paint after polishing to prepare the paint for the application of a coating.

The idea being that you're removing all the defects in the first place by using high quality abrasive technology and thus there are no swirls or other defects being masked or hidden so the Wolfgang Perfekt Finish Paint Prep is simply removing any remaining oil film left on the paint.

LIke I demostrated in the full blown write-ups AFTER using RUPES tools, pads and compounds and polishes to remove all the holograms.


First - Removing swirls/holograms using high quality abrasive technology which also includes polishing oils. I don't know if the RUPES compounds and polishes contain fillers because their Chemist doesn't allow that to be public information.


Buffing curved panels with NEW RUPES Mark II BigFoot 21 & 15 Polishers



The next step is doing a Test Spot.

That's what you want to see on paint on a car like this....

__________________


And a few hours later here's the end results.

NOTE: There is no wax or sealant on the paint yet this is just the results of RUPES Zephir Gloss Coarse Compound and Keramik Gloss fine cut polish.



Zephir Gloss - Coarse Compound - Blue Lid & Blue Foam Pad
Zephir Gloss is engineered to be used with the aggressive blue foam cutting pad to remove deeper below surface paint defects while polishing out to a hologram-free finish. Zephir Gloss is aggressive enough to remove down to P1500 sanding marks.

Keramik Gloss - Fine Cut Polish - Yellow Lid & Yellow Foam Pad
Keramik Gloss is engineered to be used with the soft yellow foam finishing pad to remove fine or shallow below surface paint defects while polishing out to an LSP-ready, flawless show room new finish.

That's from the polishing step....

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, with your posts regarding fillers in polishes, it discredits why a product like this is even made...

Wolfgang Perfekt Finish Paint Prep

No matter what it's used for, it's still removing fillers.

Now here's the Wolfgang Perfekt Finish Paint Prep in action after the polishing step. That is it's being used to remove the polishing oils off the paint as it is intended to do.


Review & How-To: Wolfgang Uber Ceramic Paint Coating



Step-by-step



How To - Perfect Finish Paint Prep

1. Mist the Perfect Finish Paint Prep to a section of a panel at a time.

2. Using a clean, microfiber towel, spread the Perfect Finish Paint Prep over the section to be cleaned and then immediately flip your microfiber towel to a clean dry side or switch to a new, fresh microfiber towel to wipe off any residues.

3. Move on to a new section of the panel and repeat the process or move to a new panel and repeat.

Very Important
Have plenty of clean, soft microfiber towels on hand for the prep step to avoid cross-contamination.

Next


Now with the paint prepared for the coating the coating is applied....

Carefully removed....

And the final results....

Mike, with your posts regarding fillers in polishes, it discredits why a product like this is even made...

Wolfgang Perfekt Finish Paint Prep

No matter what it's used for, it's still removing fillers.

The purpose of the Perfekt Finish Paint Prep is to remove anything left on the paint after the polishing step. I'm pretty sure that Todd, Alberto and me removed the swirls and scratches in the paint on this Mercury not just filled them in with fillers.

I don't even know if RUPES products have fillers? I hope they have polishing oils. :laughing:

And from what I witnessed first had the Perfekt Finish Paint Prep worked perfectly and the results speak for themselves.

:dunno:

 

[PiPUK]

Fillers are an interesting topic. I have not had time to get beyond a skim of this thread so i will try to catch up over the weekend.

Initial comments are that fillers are ubiquitous (almost). I see loads of comments in the UK from people who are totally against fillers and wouldn't touch them and then they talk about products which have fillers present (but don't advertise as such). Loads of polishes have fillers, some have filling as a consequence of other characteristics, waxes have them, many sealants will have them, quick detailers have them, spray waxes (etc). Fear of them is pointless, what would annoy me more is when I was told there were no fillers and the truth was otherwise.

As far as your process is concerned, I don't really approve of filler products when doing a correction. The simple reality is that the fillers stop you from easily seeing what you have achieved. I believe that you are better to polish without fillers then add them on top, when you are content (and can see) how you have done. I have seen lots of cases where someone uses a filler heavy polish, thinks they have done a great job, only to find swirls everywhere a week later (of course because they barely corrected the problem in the first case).

 

[BillE]

OT: Good to "see" you again PiPUK.

Bill

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Fear of them is pointless, what would annoy me more is when I was told there were no fillers and the truth was otherwise.

An observation

10 years ago the term fillers was a new term to the online detailing world. I know I was here (online) when the topic grew legs.

It's reached the tipping point now and you can tell because companies now go out of there way to point out their products don't contain fillers.

Perception is reality

The perception is that fillers are a bad thing so no company wants to be caught selling compounds and polishes that contain fillers.

What I find most interesting is how the topics on discussion forum have such a STRONG influence on the marketing departments of car care product companies.

As far as your process is concerned, I don't really approve of filler products when doing a correction.

And just to clarify for the readers... I'm assuming you're not referring to my process shown above but to the process or topic introduced by the thread starter?


In my process what I believe is we removed the defects not merely filled them in. The reason I believe this is because

A: I believe RUPES makes great products meaning the tools, the pads and the chemicals.

B: I believe we worked the Zephir Gloss Compound correctly, that is we worked the product till only a slight film was left meaning we worked the abrasives till they had for the most part completely dissipated so not only did they remove the original defects but they were properly worked down to the point where the only thing they were leaving behind was a slight haze and that's the nature of using a compound with a coarse cutting pad. And the reason we followed-up with a less aggressive product and pad.

 

[PiPUK]

What I find most interesting is how the topics on discussion forum have such a STRONG influence on the marketing departments of car care product companies.

I find this to be very worrying. As I have not been shy to point out, a lot of the marketing is utter and total nonsense. In my opinion, this practice actually slows down progress.

And just to clarify for the readers... I'm assuming you're not referring to my process shown above but to the process or topic introduced by the thread starter?

Apologies, I was referring to the royal 'your'! I was being totally generic and would never presume to comment on your (i.e. Mike Phillips) process.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I find this to be very worrying. As I have not been shy to point out, a lot of the marketing is utter and total nonsense. In my opinion, this practice actually slows down progress.

Completely agree from your point of view.

From the point of view of someone that simply watches trends since the introduction of this thing we call the "Internet" I find it interesting.

One of these days I'll tell the story about how I was introduced to the Internet back in I think 1993 while working for Hewlett-Packard. Back then there was nothing on the net except for military stuff and college kids stuff. The browser I was using was Mosaic beta 1.2 which went on to become Netscape.

Apologies, I was referring to the royal 'your'! I was being totally generic and would never presume to comment on your (i.e. Mike Phillips) process.

I never mind anyone challenging what I do or what I write and I didn't think you were but when a page starts going long the average reader as well as all the lurkers that come to AGO can lose context. Especially knowing most people are scanners.


:xyxthumbs: