I cause swirls when polishing with DA, what am I doing wrong?

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Another thing, Ultimate polish is very oily. Even after wiping off, the oils on the surface can appear to be swirls/marring/holograms, when when they're not. I always inspect my work after using a "panel wipe" spray which removes all residue from the surface.

 

[spazzz]

Okay I read every article you posted. The tip on cleaning pads on the fly is great, and working in the sun as well. I'll have to keep that in mind next time I give this a shot. So I think I just have two main questions.

1. What speed do I use on the PC 7424XP when polishing, and when compounding? I've heard mixed things.

2. This is a tough one, I've googled but never found the answer. What's the best, safest way to wipe the polish off the car after I'm done buffing the area?

With 6 inch pads I would crank it to 6 for both and use judicial pressure but keep it spinning.(I own a PC and a Flex)

You could always spritz the polish with detailer, if you are paranoid on wipe off.
Do smaller sections so your product doesn't dry up. 2x2 is a normal working area but maybe 1 x 1 would work better.

The good news is you are close.
You have projectors figured out so this will be cake.

 

[Haloruler64]

Thank you to all of you. I'll give it a shot again when I have a chance, incorporating all these great tips. I greatly appreciate it!

 

[GSKR]

Ahhhhh, you have soft paint. No fun. Do not polish in the sun! Clean your pad "on the fly" after every section and use *quality* MF towels.

Agree

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Okay I read every article you posted. The tip on cleaning pads on the fly is great, and working in the sun as well. I'll have to keep that in mind next time I give this a shot. So I think I just have two main questions.

1. What speed do I use on the PC 7424XP when polishing, and when compounding? I've heard mixed things.

You want to be on the max speed setting, ESPECIALLY if you're not using thin foam pads. Even with thin foam pads for the most part I do all my compounding and polishing on speed setting 6. Sometimes for polishing I use 5.5 but below this most pads are simply NOT going to rotate/oscillate effectively.

Speed setting 4-5 is what I use to machine apply a finishing wax or a finishing sealant because then I don't need pad rotation I'm just trying to spread out a layer of product over the surface.

If I'm using a cleaner/wax as a one-step to remove oxidation, swirls and scratches then I would be back to the 6 speed setting because then I need pad rotation.

There's a HUGE difference between machine applying a cleaner/wax to neglected paint and machine applying a finishing wax or sealant, (non-cleaning or non-abrading), to perfect paint.


So I suggest you test out your compound with your foam cutting pad on the 6 speed setting.

2. This is a tough one, I've Googled but never found the answer. What's the best, safest way to wipe the polish off the car after I'm done buffing the area?

In my previous reply I shared,

1. How to inspect a towel
2. How to fold a towel

After doing those two things, I clamp then open edges of the towel between my thumb and index finger and then lay the rest of my hand against the major portion of the towel as it is laying flat against a panel. Then make SMALL, overlapping circular motions and carefully wipe residues off.

I actually just showed this on our TV show Competition Ready when we buffed out the Porsche for Russo & Steele.


Here's what you want to do.... it's called a TEST SPOT. I coined this term for the detailing industry back in 1993 or 1994. I then posted about the practice on Autopia.org and make it part of the normal protocols for the Meguiar's Detailing 101 Classes that I started for Meguiar's at their Corporate Office back in 2002.


How To Do a Test Spot



Lay down a strip of painter's tape on a flat panel like the hood or trunk lid, like this,

Then just buff on one side of the tape line.

TEST out the pad, product, tool and your best technique and make 6-8 section passes.

After making the section passes wipe off the residue and inspect the results. COMPARE the results from the side you buffed to the side you didn't buff. This will tell you if you're making headway and getting the results you want. The side you buffed should look better than the side you didn't buff. If it doesn't then you need to trouble shoot your,

• Abrasive technology
• Pad choice
• ToolTechnique
• e

The abrasive technology is the most important factor when machine buffing any paint system. It all starts with the stuff touching the paint.

Also, you need to use the SUN to help your eyes inspect the paint or a swirl finder light if you're working in a garage.


I have to go... have to prepare a power point for the IDA Webinar tonight on Cosmetic Engine Detailing. If I had more time I could find articles and pictures that show all the above my alas... have to move on...

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

PCXP isn't useful for removing defects and polishing under speed 5, especially with 6" pads.

 

[Haloruler64]

You want to be on the max speed setting, ESPECIALLY if you're not using thin foam pads. Even with thin foam pads for the most part I do all my compounding and polishing on speed setting 6. Sometimes for polishing I use 5.5 but below this most pads are simply NOT going to rotate/oscillate effectively.

Speed setting 4-5 is what I use to machine apply a finishing wax or a finishing sealant because then I don't need pad rotation I'm just trying to spread out a layer of product over the surface.

If I'm using a cleaner/wax as a one-step to remove oxidation, swirls and scratches then I would be back to the 6 speed setting because then I need pad rotation.

There's a HUGE difference between machine applying a cleaner/wax to neglected paint and machine applying a finishing wax or sealant, (non-cleaning or non-abrading), to perfect paint.


So I suggest you test out your compound with your foam cutting pad on the 6 speed setting.






In my previous reply I shared,

1. How to inspect a towel
2. How to fold a towel

After doing those two things, I clamp then open edges of the towel between my thumb and index finger and then lay the rest of my hand against the major portion of the towel as it is laying flat against a panel. Then make SMALL, overlapping circular motions and carefully wipe residues off.

I actually just showed this on our TV show Competition Ready when we buffed out the Porsche for Russo & Steele.


Here's what you want to do.... it's called a TEST SPOT. I coined this term for the detailing industry back in 1993 or 1994. I then posted about the practice on Autopia.org and make it part of the normal protocols for the Meguiar's Detailing 101 Classes that I started for Meguiar's at their Corporate Office back in 2002.


How To Do a Test Spot



Lay down a strip of painter's tape on a flat panel like the hood or trunk lid, like this,

Then just buff on one side of the tape line.

TEST out the pad, product, tool and your best technique and make 6-8 section passes.

After making the section passes wipe off the residue and inspect the results. COMPARE the results from the side you buffed to the side you didn't buff. This will tell you if you're making headway and getting the results you want. The side you buffed should look better than the side you didn't buff. If it doesn't then you need to trouble shoot your,

• Abrasive technology
• Pad choice
• ToolTechnique
• e

The abrasive technology is the most important factor when machine buffing any paint system. It all starts with the stuff touching the paint.

Also, you need to use the SUN to help your eyes inspect the paint or a swirl finder light if you're working in a garage.


I have to go... have to prepare a power point for the IDA Webinar tonight on Cosmetic Engine Detailing. If I had more time I could find articles and pictures that show all the above my alas... have to move on...

Thank you!! This is exactly the info I was looking for. Wiping off residue in small circular motions, that's the info I've been trying to find for days. Almost every video on detailing skips this step for wiping off polish. And of course the rest of your post was extremely helpful as well, I'm learning so much. I'm doing the test spot right now without tape, just trying things out on a small section of my roof. I'll give the tape a try, much easier to see that way.

PCXP isn't useful for removing defects and polishing under speed 5, especially with 6" pads.

And thank you! Will keep it at 5-6.

 

[Haloruler64]

I decided to try one more time, but in the garage. Since my garage is miniscule, I did the roof. Taped off a small section and did some testing. Compound, polish, then finishing polish with three different pads and towels, using the tips I gained from you guys. Results look good, using a flashlight and overhead light I could see the long scratches seemed to be gone. Only seeing it in the sun will truly tell, but the sun is gone today. Nonetheless, it's a big improvement. So I started compounding the rest of the roof. Of course, I manage to mess up. I tried cleaning the pad like one of Mike's article said, pushing the pad into a terry towel and turning it on. Well the cheap towel left tons of lint. I washed the pad and wrung it out, but I guess it still had tons of water in it. The last bit of the roof I started compounding and compound flies EVERYWHERE, coating the car from bumper to bumper. I ended up just pulling it out of the garage and washing it down so the compound doesn't marr the paint.

Question: The paint is unprotected at this point. If I drove the car starting tomorrow, it's alright? I mean I'll wash/clay/prep it again before I do detailing, but it's gonna be cold for a while so I won't be detailing anyway.

 

[TTQ B4U]

I decided to try one more time, but in the garage. Since my garage is miniscule, I did the roof. Taped off a small section and did some testing. Compound, polish, then finishing polish with three different pads and towels, using the tips I gained from you guys. Results look good, using a flashlight and overhead light I could see the long scratches seemed to be gone. Only seeing it in the sun will truly tell, but the sun is gone today. Nonetheless, it's a big improvement. So I started compounding the rest of the roof. Of course, I manage to mess up. I tried cleaning the pad like one of Mike's article said, pushing the pad into a terry towel and turning it on. Well the cheap towel left tons of lint. I washed the pad and wrung it out, but I guess it still had tons of water in it. The last bit of the roof I started compounding and compound flies EVERYWHERE, coating the car from bumper to bumper. I ended up just pulling it out of the garage and washing it down so the compound doesn't marr the paint.

Question: The paint is unprotected at this point. If I drove the car starting tomorrow, it's alright? I mean I'll wash/clay/prep it again before I do detailing, but it's gonna be cold for a while so I won't be detailing anyway.

Do you really need to compound? Seems if all your seeing are swirls, something like Meg's Ultimate Polish or HDSpeed is all you would need. If you do feel or have a need for compounding, I'd highly suggest HDAdapt. It's really amazing stuff and will not only cut like a compound where a moderate need is present but it will finish nicer than even Ultimate Polish.

 

[Haloruler64]

Maybe I don't need compound. I'll have to try polish on the hood, see if I can get it looking good. Thanks for the thought.

As for HDAdapt, I'll look into it. I know I didn't buy the best of the best when it comes to products, but I bought decent ones.

 

[Haloruler64]

I took the car outside into the sun. I had compounded and polished yesterday in the shade in my garage on my roof and did everything perfectly (or so I think...). Even did the last section pass perpendicular to the car and then wiped off the polish in small circular motions. The long "swirl" marks are still there, running parallel to the car. There's no way for the buffer to do this. I feel like my polishing pad and compound combo simply isn't aggressive enough to get them out, because they look the SAME as before. Nothing in my last compounding went in that direction, so they have to be from before. Maybe I'm not pushing hard enough on the DA... you guys say 20 lbs. I'm putting significant pressure on it, but not sure how 20 lbs feels. Maybe I need a cutting pad.

I've spent a literal week doing this again and again spending hours and wasting days, and I'm tired of it. I'm gonna give it another shot eventually, and I'll keep researching in the meantime learning as much as possible. It's a skill I want to learn, but not now. I'm burned out, as you can imagine. I washed the car one more time, waxed it, then used my neighbor's Chem Guys V07 quick detailer and sealant on top like the instructions say. It smells AMAZING, and the car looks great at 5 feet. Metallic flake sparkles like it rarely does. This will do for now.

Also I realize this post reads a bit emo, I promise you it's not supposed to! Just a bit burnt out.

 

[Calendyr]

If you have to polish in the sun, what you can do is re-hydrate your polish while you are polishing. To do this, simply take a spray bottle and fill it with Distilled water. After 2 passes do one spray of water on the pad. After a while you will start to see when the polish is drying out, everytime it does do a spray of water on the pad. This works really well and prevents you from having to seek a garage anytime you need to compound or polish.

I did not read the whole thread so I hope you found your after regarding the swirls.

 

[Haloruler64]

I appreciate the advice, I shall do so next time I will be polishing.

 

[Calendyr]

I took the car outside into the sun. I had compounded and polished yesterday in the shade in my garage on my roof and did everything perfectly (or so I think...). Even did the last section pass perpendicular to the car and then wiped off the polish in small circular motions. The long "swirl" marks are still there, running parallel to the car. There's no way for the buffer to do this. I feel like my polishing pad and compound combo simply isn't aggressive enough to get them out, because they look the SAME as before. Nothing in my last compounding went in that direction, so they have to be from before. Maybe I'm not pushing hard enough on the DA... you guys say 20 lbs. I'm putting significant pressure on it, but not sure how 20 lbs feels. Maybe I need a cutting pad.

I've spent a literal week doing this again and again spending hours and wasting days, and I'm tired of it. I'm gonna give it another shot eventually, and I'll keep researching in the meantime learning as much as possible. It's a skill I want to learn, but not now. I'm burned out, as you can imagine. I washed the car one more time, waxed it, then used my neighbor's Chem Guys V07 quick detailer and sealant on top like the instructions say. It smells AMAZING, and the car looks great at 5 feet. Metallic flake sparkles like it rarely does. This will do for now.

Also I realize this post reads a bit emo, I promise you it's not supposed to! Just a bit burnt out.

Here is how you can find out. Take a scale (the type you stand on to measure your weight). Put the polisher on it. It should read something like 5 pounds or less. Then apply pressure until it reads 20 pounds. Do this until your muscle know how it feels like to apply 20 pounds. Remember this is on an horizontal panel. When you do a vertical one you will need to apply a tiny bit more pressure to compensate for the fact the weight of the machine is not on the surface anymore.

An other thing you can do is apply enough pressure to slow down the pad a little bit. This is where you will get maximum correction ability. The pad needs to keep spinning but that point where it starts to slow down is the sweet spot. Again with time your muscle will learn just how much pressure to apply.

 

[Haloruler64]

Here is how you can find out. Take a scale (the type you stand on to measure your weight). Put the polisher on it. It should read something like 5 pounds or less. Then apply pressure until it reads 20 pounds. Do this until your muscle know how it feels like to apply 20 pounds. Remember this is on an horizontal panel. When you do a vertical one you will need to apply a tiny bit more pressure to compensate for the fact the weight of the machine is not on the surface anymore.

An other thing you can do is apply enough pressure to slow down the pad a little bit. This is where you will get maximum correction ability. The pad needs to keep spinning but that point where it starts to slow down is the sweet spot. Again with time your muscle will learn just how much pressure to apply.

I can't believe I didn't think of that... fantastic idea. Thanks!

 

[TTQ B4U]

I took the car outside into the sun. I had compounded and polished yesterday in the shade in my garage on my roof and did everything perfectly (or so I think...). Even did the last section pass perpendicular to the car and then wiped off the polish in small circular motions. The long "swirl" marks are still there, running parallel to the car. There's no way for the buffer to do this. I feel like my polishing pad and compound combo simply isn't aggressive enough to get them out, because they look the SAME as before. Nothing in my last compounding went in that direction, so they have to be from before. Maybe I'm not pushing hard enough on the DA... you guys say 20 lbs. I'm putting significant pressure on it, but not sure how 20 lbs feels. Maybe I need a cutting pad.

I've spent a literal week doing this again and again spending hours and wasting days, and I'm tired of it. I'm gonna give it another shot eventually, and I'll keep researching in the meantime learning as much as possible. It's a skill I want to learn, but not now. I'm burned out, as you can imagine. I washed the car one more time, waxed it, then used my neighbor's Chem Guys V07 quick detailer and sealant on top like the instructions say. It smells AMAZING, and the car looks great at 5 feet. Metallic flake sparkles like it rarely does. This will do for now.

Also I realize this post reads a bit emo, I promise you it's not supposed to! Just a bit burnt out.

My advice is this.

Ditch the compound. The swirls and defects and over condition of the paint that I've seen don't require it. A good polish like Meg's ulitmate or HDSpeed or ect. with an orange pad is all that those marks show in the four second video need. They wouldn't even take that much pressure.

Based on the length of them and direction and now I'm thinking your water spots....are those after washing it? are likely induced either during the wash or drying of the car. Could seriously even be your MF Towels themselves. In fact on my S4 if I try and use the cheap thin ones from say Autozone or Wally World, those are the types of marks they would put on the clear coat. Is your MR2 a single stage paint like a lot of Toyotas? That looks to be some pretty hard water too. Are you using warm/hot water to wash it? It looks just like the spots that would form from using hot water from an old tank.

Here's a screen shot for others to see what we're talking about.




Honestly, I'd reach out to Limny Kuang here on the board. I don't know him but have seen his posts and know that he's in your area. I'm sure he'd be open to you coming down to his place to give you insight. http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/members/cg6lemon.html

Most everyone here is very helpful like that.

 

[Haloruler64]

My advice is this.

Ditch the compound. The swirls and defects and over condition of the paint that I've seen don't require it. A good polish like Meg's ulitmate or HDSpeed or ect. with an orange pad is all that those marks show in the four second video need. They wouldn't even take that much pressure.

Based on the length of them and direction and now I'm thinking your water spots....are those after washing it? are likely induced either during the wash or drying of the car. Could seriously even be your MF Towels themselves. In fact on my S4 if I try and use the cheap thin ones from say Autozone or Wally World, those are the types of marks they would put on the clear coat. Is your MR2 a single stage paint like a lot of Toyotas? That looks to be some pretty hard water too. Are you using warm/hot water to wash it? It looks just like the spots that would form from using hot water from an old tank.

Here's a screen shot for others to see what we're talking about.

I shall ditch the compound, it hasn't really been doing much "cutting" anyway. I dunno, am I doing something wrong in that even compound is not getting those lines out? They're there even after compounding, almost like the compound isn't doing anything.

I washed the car the night before and didn't dry it, parked it in the garage. Washed it using the hose, cold water. California water, it's clean stuff. I took the video as I rolled the car out of the garage. Water spots are unrelated, it's about the fine lines going only in one direction.

I'm using a mix of brand new Chemical Guys MF towels and Meguiar's Supreme Shine MF towels, both good towels IMO.

 

[TTQ B4U]

I shall ditch the compound, it hasn't really been doing much "cutting" anyway. I dunno, am I doing something wrong in that even compound is not getting those lines out? They're there even after compounding, almost like the compound isn't doing anything.

I washed the car the night before and didn't dry it, parked it in the garage. Washed it using the hose, cold water. California water, it's clean stuff. I took the video as I rolled the car out of the garage. Water spots are unrelated, it's about the fine lines going only in one direction.

I'm using a mix of brand new Chemical Guys MF towels and Meguiar's Supreme Shine MF towels, both good towels IMO.

I edited my above post. do reach out to the member I linked.

In terms of what is going on, obviously I can't say as the compound with an orange pad should work just fine. Here's a Before and After of Meg's Ulitmate Compound with a 7424XP from earlier this year with a chem guys hexlogic orange pad.

Not sure what you mean by the water spots unrelated because if that is an example of your water from the hose, that's pretty hard stuff. Use a drying aid mixed up from Wolfgang Uber for sure, blot dry and then if you ever wipe the surface with a MF Rag when not removing product, make sure it's lubed with the same drying aid or a detail spray of some sort. The hardness in that water is stout.

 

[Haloruler64]

I edited my above post. do reach out to the member I linked.

In terms of what is going on, obviously I can't say as the compound with an orange pad should work just fine. Here's a Before and After of Meg's Ulitmate Compound with a 7424XP from earlier this year with a chem guys hexlogic orange pad.

Not sure what you mean by the water spots unrelated because if that is an example of your water from the hose, that's pretty hard stuff. Use a drying aid mixed up from Wolfgang Uber for sure, blot dry and then if you ever wipe the surface with a MF Rag when not removing product, make sure it's lubed with the same drying aid or a detail spray of some sort. The hardness in that water is stout.

Thank you, I'll get in touch with him.

Maybe it's the pads? I have a great polisher and Meg's Ultimate Compound is good. I'm using Meg's foam polishing pads, not a cutting pad.

I understand it's hard stuff, but is this going to have an effect on my detailing of it? I don't let the water dry on my panels usually, I just got frustrated that day and washed the car off and parked it without drying. Which wasn't smart of me, I re-washed it today and fully dried and waxed it.

 

[TTQ B4U]

Thank you, I'll get in touch with him.

Maybe it's the pads? I have a great polisher and Meg's Ultimate Compound is good. I'm using Meg's foam polishing pads, not a cutting pad.

Not at all familiar with their pads. My guess is the polishing pad is too soft. I'd use an orange pad or a white pad. White pads are softer and might take a bit longer is all. The impact of either is just in how much pressure they transmit to the product on top of the paint. The product is the most primary function when correcting. Pads some next.

I understand it's hard stuff, but is this going to have an effect on my detailing of it?

hard water like that could introduce marring if you're wiping it with a towel. not as likely but then keep in mind that wipe residue is hardness. Like rocks in powdered sugar form.