Water Spot Issues after Coatings are applied and how Paint reacts to hot and cold temperatures

Hey all, and Velocitybts...

Just now found this thread, clicked on it and read it.

Great discussion. No simple answer. The issues brought up are challenging and that's probably why you don't see any great information about how to address them and that's because there's now fast or easy way to approach them.

For example, heating up a body panel or the entire car to expand the surface, (I'd say sheet metal but not all cars or all body panels are made from metal), so you can inspect it for un-exposed past damage i.e. water spots is both time consuming and for most people, simply un-doable. At least I've never seen anyone write a how-to article with pictures and links to the products needed to do this. (I write a lot of articles but I can't write them all).

I've written a number of times on this forum that my own experience is that a coated car gets a dirt stain on the coating just like any LSP on any car. The stain doesn't wash off. So how do you get the dirt stain off?

If you compound or polish the paint now the coating is gone. So now what? Re-coat the car? If you try any other way to remove the dirt stain you still don't know what's left on the surface because there's no true or accurate test to determine what's on the surface. All anyone can do is simply guess.

And that's how coatings go...

That's why "m not sure I'm sold on the idea of long lasting anything, waxes, sealants or coatings. Sure the "protection" might be there but if the car in question is a DAILY DRIVER then the surface is going to get a dirt stain on the surface and for this reason if you want the car to look it's best ALL THE TIME then you must do something to it at least once in a while.

Kind of back to what I started typing about 20 years ago...

“Find something you like and use it often”


Only "Find something you like and use it often" doesn't apply to coatings but it does apply to cleaner/waxes. Thus the reason I use a light cutting cleaner/wax to maintain that show room new look on my own daily driver that is driven, parked and stored outside 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.


If you’re reading this and you don’t know what I mean when I say that the paint on daily driver’s gets dirty? Then read these two articles and look at the pictures…





Road Film - If you drive your car in the rain your car has road film

Road_Film_From_Driving_in_the_Rain_01.jpg




Here's why you need to polish paint...


Dirty_Old_Ford_006.jpg









Velocitybts said:
Super Soft Paint------------I have one of the softest paints on cars now. On two of my cars. Yes, it is a pain!!!!!!!!!!!!. I worked with Mike several years ago on my 02' Mustang 5.0 in Navy Blue, where on the hood no matter what I did slight marring showed up.
Click to expand...


The Mike you're talking about above? Is that me? Is that Mike Lambert? Or a different Mike?

I'm trying to remember the Mustang?


:)
 
Mike, its Andrew. you helped on the Navy Blue Mustang 2 years back through my email (same as forum name)(ie...PB AM new DB11 paint correction that the guy never called you back on) with the issue of micro marring on front hood due to soft paint and walked me through the process of eliminating each step and find out where the problem was coming from. Hope that jogs your memory, but if not as you can see it helped immensely.

----"If you compound or polish the paint now the coating is gone. So now what? Re-coat the car? If you try any other way to remove the dirt stain you still don't know what's left on the surface because there's no true or accurate test to determine what's on the surface. All anyone can do is simply guess."

Ultimately that is my largest point with using Coatings. You will have to compound and polish to remove the stain, or to again remove scratches. Either way, you realistically don't know the amount left on the surface so you almost don't know when you have removed all the coating. Hence lowering the CC levels. DD cars it doesn't make a huge diff. But an exotic it could mean everything.

I wanted to bring into light the possible issues for using coatings and not necessarily comparing them to sealents. But, you will have to remove portions at some point for obvious reasons. For people who sell this to their customers, do they think about down the road, or just the sale of the product up front. Coatings are a huge deal right now in the industry. People rave about them to the point on one site the detailer said
"it will take a matter of years to get it in that condition again if proper wash methods are used. If the owner were to use a cheap mitt, beach towel, and sponge used on the wheels for the paint, it won’t take long to scratch up the coating. That’s the beauty of coatings, they take the abuse rather than the clear coat. it’s easier and cheaper to reapply the coating compared to adding more clear to a car."

Seems to me that detailer just told their customer on a very high end vehicle (and other detailers) that the Coating will be the substrate that takes the scratches and abuse not the paint. And then to repair that, all you have to do is re-apply the coating. WRONG from the word go. But that is one example of how people are upselling the products and explaining them to the masses. Coatings help protect the paint from the elements, but wont prevent scratching. (minor micro marring maybe yes, but towel and mitt and abuse no).

So, in reality I should have not used the example I did, and just dumbed this down to what do detailers think about down the road for their cars they coat. What issues do they find, or think they could have, just by applying the latest greatest coating. That is my whole point. No one talks about that. There are problems with coatings, however they depend on what the use was for the coating and what type of car it was used on.

Does that make some sense Mike P????? Just want to make sure this is constructive to the forum members and maybe even learn more about it myself. Seeing that a lot of members do professional work for their business, or want to be in the business and will likely sell coatings to make additional money ( I certainly have) the potential downfalls need to be discussed openly to come to a general consensus about them.
Thanks Mike for chiming in.
 
The new CarPro Essence Plus was developed to repair marred and scratched coatings. I haven't been able to try it yet, but it fills a void in the coating installers arsenal.
 
To Velocitybts
This thread is really interesting, learned a lot here.
All the info you presented was informative, rich in details, and your concern about coating issues after application is extremely valid.
I never thought about reocurring water spots behind the coating, but I had one case and also some complains in a whatsapp group I take part.
I've been coating a lot lately, and I have a lot of returning customers for maintenance wash.
What I can add is that coating is not as easy as I thought it would be, once I mastered the application technique, the car's appearance is degrading faster than I would've hoped, I mean in DD cars in the long run. Some comes back swirled due to improper washes, some with water spots on top of the coating, some are grabbier than others, and the never ending problem of coating application on finicky paints. One, as I said, had water spots below the coating on the hood, I had to remove it, repolish it and reapply it.
I always thought that water spots on paint would be taken care of through compounding, but now I know some few stubborns remain, and I adjusting my prep through adding water spot removal procedure (by white vinegar and water spot remover) after washing and before polishing starts.
Thanks for bringing the subject to our attention.
Best regards.
 
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rlmccarty2000 said:
The new CarPro Essence Plus was developed to repair marred and scratched coatings. I haven't been able to try it yet, but it fills a void in the coating installers arsenal.
Click to expand...

The product is interesting, however .....

1. Glazes are the old product that has fillers to fill in marring and scratches, then without panel wipe apply your carnauba or sealant of choice. These fillers were a tool for detialers to improve the paint for a customer, but it only lasts several weeks pending number of washes. Eventually in a short time, this product is removed by washing and the swirls return with a vengeance.

2. CP Essence ---- appears to be a Quartz Silica version of a Glaze. Intended for coatings. I would be assuming its fillers are what they describe as silica product and likely actually bond to the current coating on the vehicle, in a sense filling what swirls are there. Since Essence is partly made up of whats in the original coating any fine marring that hasn't gotten into the paint likely would be filled and not seen any longer. This would last as long as your coating does. However, interested in seeing how long it lasts in areas where the marring and swirls have gone through the coating. Remember, most of the coatings cannot even be measured on the paint, so likely most if not all swirls or marring does go through the paint.

Both of those products have their purpose in the industry. Glazes mostly right before a car show, where any marring can be covered up and intended only for the show. Essence, maybe giving longevity to a coating, and helping with the reduction of swirls. However, in both cases it doesn't prevent the necessity to have to polish or correct the paint down the road. Coatings are an issue with that.
 
RPM_BR said:
To Velocitybts
This thread is really interesting, learned a lot here.
All the info you presented was informative, rich in details, and your concern about coating issues after application is extremely valid.
I never thought about reocurring water spots behind the coating, but I had one case and also some complains in a whatsapp group I take part.
I've been coating a lot lately, and I have a lot of returning customers for maintenance wash.
What I can add is that coating is not as easy as I thought it would be, once I mastered the application technique, the car's appearance is degrading faster than I would've hoped, I mean in DD cars in the long run. Some comes back swirled due to improper washes, some with water spots on top of the coating, some are grabbier than others, and the never ending problem of coating application on finicky paints. One, as I said, had water spots below the coating on the hood, I had to remove it, repolish it and reapply it.
I always thought that water spots on paint would be taken care of through compounding, but now I know some few stubborns remain, and I adjusting my prep through adding water spot removal procedure (by white vinegar and water spot remover) after washing and before polishing starts.
Thanks for bringing the subject to our attention.
Best regards.
Click to expand...


@RPM_BR -----That was the whole purpose for the thread is so members can learn more of the products they use. Mike eluded to that in his post and said this topic hasn't been really discussed, which was my purpose.

The water spots issue comes from paint expanding and contracting and at what point in time the materials were on it, and that is exacerbated by using IR light which heats up the panel, causing some of the coating to embed itself into the paint when the panel cools. This happens at a micro level also when buffing panels, pending on the heat levels that occur.

Remember, the water spots sometimes occur, lets say during the day, when its hot and the panel is heated up drastically, when the rain, sprinklers etc.... falls on it, then dries. When the panel cools, a minute amount of the water spot chemicals get embedded into the paint. Thus after buffing you cant see them, but when the panel is heated up, then you do. ONLY way to remove those, is to heat up the panel to where they show up, then remove them with minimal heat build up. This is not likely much of a concern on your personal car, but a customers whose paint you are not familiar with. Never discussed on this forum.

Best way IMHO to upsell the coating, is to teach your customer how to protect their paint from future swirls. Maybe have a $40 kit, you include in your pricing, that has soap, wash mitt, proper drying towels etc... in it and give to the customer after your work is done and they can help prevent. Most customers who pay for a paint correction realize there is residual upkeep.

Ones who have a coating and get swirled, I personally wouldn't touch. No way to properly know how much clear is left to work with, let alone know fully when you have removed the coating. And charge a LOT more for the removal.

Essence may provide a solution to coatings to help with at least filling the swirls with something that wont wash away after a few washes. But still doesn't take away the fact there are swirls in the paint.

My main topic for this, is do you recommend a Coating for Exotics or possible collector cars? Or not? I personally after learning more about coatings and future possible issues with them, I wont recommend them, but the reasons are to give longevity to the paint down the road and to keep as much of that as possible for corrections down the road in 40 years. Re-painting and OEM paint are huge differences in values for collector cars or even run of the mill exotics. No one wants to pay for one with repainted panels. Why do that, when you can spend a few dollars more for one that is totally OEM. Issues that are important, but not to the every day detailer.

That's why I said DD cars putting coatings on are not an issue, and even correcting time and time again. In 10 years who cares, likely doesn't affect the value. As long as the owner likes the look its perfect.

Coatings for me -----------a DD no problem, wheels, wood trim with CC, metal parts/ trim, and CF parts I feel are perfect places to apply them. Paint, for me on high end ones only get sealants and carnaubas.
 
Velocitybts - you presented an interesting situation and asked some good questions. I'm thrilled to see that Mike chimed in but my experience with post-application coating questions on this forum is that it can be tough to get straight answers. I don't believe that our industry has completely thought through the care and feeding of a coated car and the conflict that care creates with the sales pitch used to sell the coating in the first place.

Anyway, you asked about how to tell if you've completely removed a coating. I asked a similar question a while back and the answer appears to be that there isn't a way to tell for sure if a car has a coating... or not. So it goes without saying that if you're trying to buff off a coating, you're flying blind and have no way to tell if you are past the coating and into the clear coat.

You asked if shops accept previously coated cars for paint correction. After taking in a car that I didn't know was coated (and the customer didn't either) I asked this forum how they deal with coated cars. It took a page and a half of unrelated responses before Scott@IncrediblyDetailed stepped up and gave a straight response. Scott and GKSR both seem to offer the same services for both coated cars as uncoated cars with the addition of a charge to remove the coating before the other correction work begins. That is now my position as well.

Personally, I'm not yet sold on the coating concept. I think the benefits are oversold and in a few cases not true. For example, most coatings have some language that talks to the concept of scratch resistance (note, I did not say scratch proof). By now, we all know that coatings get scratched. A scratch is a scratch and it doesn't much matter if it was harder to make the scratch or not. What nobody is talking about is that when a coated car gets scratched, it costs more to correct it than an uncoated car. I continue to talk with owners to coated cars to get their thoughts.

Thanks for starting the thread.

Bill
 
So if I'm reading some of this right, it's obvious that paint gets dirty, but are people saying that the coatings are getting stained as well?
 
ive had mckees and PBL coating on my cars for months and one i have only just pressure washed with no soap, just water just to see how the paint looks and how the dirt would stick and have been having great results. car sits outside 24 hrs a day in the desert so gets covered in dust within hrs of a wash. ive not had any issues with stains to the paint and the coating still looks great and beads amazingly
 
Interesting thread. I've been researching and preparing to have a car coated by a professional (whom I have yet to find in my area) because my #1 goal for this potential future classic, after paint correction, is long term protection of the existing paint. This thread is bringing up some interesting discussion and makes me think a coating might not be the best route for me after all. The car in question is mostly garage stored but does get driven (probably 30k miles in the past 10 years) and that includes rain sometimes. There are things that make me think the car may have had a coating of some sort applied before I purchased it, but I don't really know.

Nice to hear some detailers sharing their honest experiences and opinions on coatings and the longer term effects of the real world on them.
 
BryanH said:
Interesting thread. I've been researching and preparing to have a car coated by a professional (whom I have yet to find in my area) because my #1 goal for this potential future classic, after paint correction, is long term protection of the existing paint. This thread is bringing up some interesting discussion and makes me think a coating might not be the best route for me after all. The car in question is mostly garage stored but does get driven (probably 30k miles in the past 10 years) and that includes rain sometimes. There are things that make me think the car may have had a coating of some sort applied before I purchased it, but I don't really know.

Nice to hear some detailers sharing their honest experiences and opinions on coatings and the longer term effects of the real world on them.
Click to expand...


Bryan,

I am glad this thread is starting to get some responses at least in question or understanding form.

Bryan, I own a 2005 Aston Martin DB9 black on black with the very very rare 6-speed manual. Its one of 20 first year cars for that model brought to the states w/ specific options. So a rare car that might possibly be a collector car one day and start rising in value at some point. Its already holding steady on value now while the automatic still decrease. This car specifically has brought to my attention the issues or possible issue for coatings.

1. I don't want to risk anything on this cars paint and want as much as possible left down the road. The full history is a 2-step correction 4 years ago with standard LSP applied since. Original owner never had it corrected. So MY full 4-5step correction will be the most the paint has seen since the factory. I PLan a 60-70hr total refinish of the car this Dec, then it will be kept that way.

2. While coatings are nice, easier to keep clean, gloss levels on par or better than LSPs I do like them. I personally have used the 22ple and Modesta coatings with great success. But those were on cars that are NOT collector cars or rare, and only planned to keep them a few years max. 10-15 years down the road those cars will be out of service likely so coatings are not an issue IMHO. Yes issue remain with removal and re-application and you might take too much CC off in the process, but even a re-painted panel is not an issue. BUT...... for that classic rare or collector car, you as a detailer have the responsibility to keep as much of the CC as possible left on the car.

Example------ IF I as a customer brought a car to a detailer and asked them to correct the paint, and they upsold me on a coating and two weeks later I find water spots underneath the coating where they have to go back and take off the CC to remove the water spots then re-coat---------------that right there for sure will diminish the level of CC on the paint. Hence damaging my cars CC more than what is needed originally, and if its a Ferrari or Aston Martin I possibly might have a case to take to a lawyer to receive damages for irresponsible work and mistakes made by the detailer. Who knows, but regardless if there is a case in court for that or not, the detailer made a mistake and now removes more of the CC to correct that mistake. Either way, its a loss in the end for the car itself.

So, on a rare historic classic or plain really expensive car, is it worth the end result to apply a material to the paint that could cause possible issues down the road. That is the question. Plus when the customer wants their car corrected the second time due to marring or inexperienced cleaners of the car, it will be more expensive. I feel for those reasons there is no reason solid enough to coat a vehicle under these circumstances. Why not a quality sealant and carnauba which can provide the same gloss levels and protectants. Just need replacing more often. But, on a classic or rare care driven on sunny days only, that is even less applications than a normal car to begin with.


Hope that helps---My suggestion is no, do them normally and use a high quality sealant, and each time you show or go out in it, take 20 min and apply a carnauba to maximize your shine. Or just go with sealants .
 
Great Thread!!!!!!

Let me chime in from a body shop perspective. In my tenure in the collision industry I have only encountered TWO vehicles with coatings. That coating needs to be removed prior to any paint being sprayed on the vehicle. You can sand all you want but the coatings just eat through the sandpaper, it feels like trying to sand chrome! What we have found in the collision industry is that we must first remove the coating chemically with MEK (MethylEthylKetone). This removes the coating and does not harm the clear underneath. From that point we can clean any residue with laquer thinner and then a wax and grease remover. It is then at this point that we can prepare/sand the surface to accept paint. Of course this only works on base coat/clear coat paint.
 
Weather or not a car has a coating,you need to remove the clear responsibly to remove the spots.and trust me,they will reappear sitting in the sun at a show on a so called collector car.so I fail to understand your point?
 
Mike lambert said:
Weather or not a car has a coating,you need to remove the clear responsibly to remove the spots.and trust me,they will reappear sitting in the sun at a show on a so called collector car.so I fail to understand your point?
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The water spot issue point is that in order to get to the spots and correct them the panels must be heated up, so then you see them to correct them. (IE....under sun at car show they show up due to panel being heated up). That is the only way to make sure on a car with those issues that you fully correct the problem.

Part of my original example, but I added in the coating issue and how that could create even more of an issue.



BODY SHOP-------- I think the MEK removal solution could be a great answer for coating removal. However, I don't know enough about all the chemicals to know how that could possibly damage the CC or if it even would ever. But very very interesting proposal for a needed process.
 
Velocitybts said:
BODY SHOP-------- I think the MEK removal solution could be a great answer for coating removal. However, I don't know enough about all the chemicals to know how that could possibly damage the CC or if it even would ever. But very very interesting proposal for a needed process.
Click to expand...

I used to work at a place that used acetone and used to use MEK. From what I heard they quit using MEK because it was just too much of a fire hazard. They say that stuff is crazy flammable.


Sent from my iPhone
 
JKDesign said:
Great Thread!!!!!!

What we have found in the collision industry is that we must first remove the coating chemically with MEK (MethylEthylKetone). This removes the coating and does not harm the clear underneath. From that point we can clean any residue with laquer thinner and then a wax and grease remover. It is then at this point that we can prepare/sand the surface to accept paint.
Click to expand...

When you are using the MEK can you tell when your thru the coating?
Also does the coating show up when using a paint thickness gauge?
 
^ More good questions. Chemical coating removal sounds like it may be a safer process (to avoid eating into the clear coat) if a correct method is proven and refined.


The idea for my car, based on my understanding as a hobbyist, was to have a durable coating applied so that I could go longer before having to correct the paint again on the car. I imagined a coating would have a greater hardness and thus more resistance to washing-induced swirls. I also imagined a coating would gradually wear off down to nothing after a number of years, at which point swirls would begin to show up on the actual clear coat (now exposed). Then I would apply another coating and let the cycle continue.

From this thread it sounds like I may have bought into some 'generous' manufacturer claims and made assumptions about how coatings behave over time. It seems that maybe the proper care and feeding of a coating is more difficult than the simple methods used for years with polishes, waxes, and more recently sealants.

Although the car isn't of particularly high dollar value now, and doesn't have 100% of its original paint anymore, (don't get me started on how hard it is to find quality paint work!), the majority of it still looks excellent and this is a car I may never sell. It's one of 13 hardtop 1993 MR2 Turbos imported to the US and could be worth something in 10, 20, 30 years, especially as so few MR2s (most of which had T-tops, or a sunroof) are still stock even today.

So it's of interest to me to keep the paint that's on there in as good a shape as possible for the long haul.

Perhaps I'll go the traditional route with a correction and a sealant, and get ultra OCD with my washing technique for that car, taking extra time and care to make sure not to induce tiny scratches.

The potential snag is there may be remnants of a coating on the car as it sits now. I have no way to know for sure but I suspect something like this because of how the paint has behaved in the past 10 years of my ownership.

- It has always cleaned really nicely with a smooth touch
- Water still beaded heavily for 7-8 years (yes, years!) with no wax/sealant applications of any kind on my part
- Swirls and fine scratches took a long time to start showing (again, years) even with poor washing tools and techniques that I would no longer even think about using
- A door ding appears to have made a chip happen under the top layer of clear. The outer layer, although indented by the ding, is smooth to the touch, but there's clearly paint damage underneath - maybe even in the base coat. I've never seen anything like that before.

All of this points to a coating, to me. It was obvious the car was detailed before I purchased it, and the response I received from a previous owner was: "I am pretty sure I used either the high end zymol ( $75 per jar) or a product called Touch of Class. It was a commercial grade sealant that we used at the Lexus dealership." Neither sounds like a coating to me.
 
BryanH said:
^ More good questions. Chemical coating removal sounds like it may be a safer process (to avoid eating into the clear coat) if a correct method is proven and refined.


The idea for my car, based on my understanding as a hobbyist, was to have a durable coating applied so that I could go longer before having to correct the paint again on the car. I imagined a coating would have a greater hardness and thus more resistance to washing-induced swirls. I also imagined a coating would gradually wear off down to nothing after a number of years, at which point swirls would begin to show up on the actual clear coat (now exposed). Then I would apply another coating and let the cycle continue.

From this thread it sounds like I may have bought into some 'generous' manufacturer claims and made assumptions about how coatings behave over time. It seems that maybe the proper care and feeding of a coating is more difficult than the simple methods used for years with polishes, waxes, and more recently sealants.

Although the car isn't of particularly high dollar value now, and doesn't have 100% of its original paint anymore, (don't get me started on how hard it is to find quality paint work!), the majority of it still looks excellent and this is a car I may never sell. It's one of 13 hardtop 1993 MR2 Turbos imported to the US and could be worth something in 10, 20, 30 years, especially as so few MR2s (most of which had T-tops, or a sunroof) are still stock even today.

So it's of interest to me to keep the paint that's on there in as good a shape as possible for the long haul.

Perhaps I'll go the traditional route with a correction and a sealant, and get ultra OCD with my washing technique for that car, taking extra time and care to make sure not to induce tiny scratches.

The potential snag is there may be remnants of a coating on the car as it sits now. I have no way to know for sure but I suspect something like this because of how the paint has behaved in the past 10 years of my ownership.

- It has always cleaned really nicely with a smooth touch
- Water still beaded heavily for 7-8 years (yes, years!) with no wax/sealant applications of any kind on my part
- Swirls and fine scratches took a long time to start showing (again, years) even with poor washing tools and techniques that I would no longer even think about using
- A door ding appears to have made a chip happen under the top layer of clear. The outer layer, although indented by the ding, is smooth to the touch, but there's clearly paint damage underneath - maybe even in the base coat. I've never seen anything like that before.

All of this points to a coating, to me. It was obvious the car was detailed before I purchased it, and the response I received from a previous owner was: "I am pretty sure I used either the high end zymol ( $75 per jar) or a product called Touch of Class. It was a commercial grade sealant that we used at the Lexus dealership." Neither sounds like a coating to me.
Click to expand...

There is a whole bunch of misconceptions out there about coatings and what they are, how they function and their maintenance. I hope the below will help you understand the Hardness misconceptions.

A coating will not prevent normal swirls and bad washing methods. They possibly may prevent very fine marring, but not normal scratches. Most if not all coatings are not measurable. Some do show differences. I applied Modesta BC-5 on a Maserati and you could actually feel the difference between a painted panel and coated panel. Likely I am assuming CQuartz is close to the same.

Hardness – What does it really mean? (originally written by Zach McGovern on another site, he is a forum member here also)

Many companies like to dwell on the hardness rating, such as 9H. Some even include it in their product’s name to draw attention to it. What most of them are not advertising is what 9H actually means. The test used to determine the film hardness that is advertised for every coating I have seen to date is known as the “Pencil Hardness Test”. As I understand it, this test consists of a variety of standardized grading pencils that range from soft to hard depending on the composition of the pencil. Using a pencil, a line is made on the surface that is being tested, and if no scratch is visible, the test is repeated with a harder pencil until the surface is scratched. A coating with a hardness of 9H does not show a scratch with the hardest pencil.

This is far different than the MOHS Mineral Hardness scale in which minerals are rated on a scale of 1-10, where 1 is the softest and 10 is the hardest. In the past, I have seen detailers advertising products with a 9H MOHS hardness, however this is simply not feasible. If a coating had a mineral hardness of 9H, the only substance that would be able to scratch the surface would be one with a hardness of 10H or greater. For reference, a diamond, one of the hardest substances on earth, is rated at 10H. With that in mind, if a coating was truly 9H mineral hardness, it would not be possible to scratch the car with a key and you certainly would not be able to make swirl marks with a dirty towel (unless you’re smashing up diamonds and sprinkling them onto your towels).

Once a coating is applied, it can be scratched and swirled just the same as bare paint, so do not read too far into the hardness claims that are listed with any particular coating. In my opinion, they are nothing more than marketing hype.


I hope that helps understand that portion of the marketing.
 
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