Flex 3401 vs rupes 21 mark 2

Here's my personal experience..
I find the long throws to cut faster on flat and slight curves.. with Deep curves you can attack 1 of 3 ways.. (1)either approach curve with massage technique,(2)attack from top up to curve/crease, followed by bottom to crease/curve, or (3)switch to smaller D/A or flex.

flex on curves will just spin.

car completion time, they end up about the same where it wouldn't even matter or dictate to use one over the other in that aspect..

regarding techniques..

For smooth operation they have the same technique. You need to keep the polisher level to insure pad is flat on panel...if not flat each machine experiences a different effect.
flex 3401 will experience walk while the long stroke will experience a stall on curves, or perhaps wobble on flat with a stiff pad..

The Flex likes pressure , while long stroke just needs weight of machine for cutting.

I use the long stroke as its smooth, you don't feel fatigued after a job or two(no using downward machine pressure, less vibration in general, no walk to control), and the results will be your body will love you longer as vibration will ultimately mess your nerves up.


with that said, a detailer will typically be biased towards the machine they feel most proficient with due to being the one they use the most.

Every detailer should ideally own one of every style to achieve the most rounded skill set possible, but thats not always plausible for various reasons per end user.

all and all use what you prefer and detail on! :-D
 
You seem pretty unbiased; So, is it true that, generally, the long throws finish nicer?
 
expdetailing said:
So, is it true that, generally, the long throws finish nicer?
Click to expand...


It would seem to me from my experience that long orbit stroke length orbital polishers do have an edge for finishing nicer than short stroke orbital polishers.


I would also point out that AFTER you apply a wax, synthetic sealant or paint coating that any difference would be and should be a moot point as the sealing of a properly polished surface had the tendency to create a more uniform appearance that lasts over time regardless of which tool you used to finish out with.




If you look at the pictures in the write-up I posted for our boat detailing class, we cut with a rotary buffer to remove all the sanding marks left from machine sanding and then we used the RUPES polishers to finish out. Might be escape some but there's actually a reason why I show various tools for all the various projects we undertake in all our classes here at Autogeek.


Pictures and comments: Marine 31 Boat Detailing Class - February 6th, 2016



Machine sanding with the FLEX 3401
2016_Boat_Class_074.jpg





Compounding with rotary buffers

2016_Boat_Class_084.jpg



Polishing, actually finish poising with RUPES

Look at the insane reflections...

2016_Boat_Class_104.jpg





Since I'm on the topic of boat detailing, we only teach out boat class once a year. It's a really educational class as well as fun class. Many of the things you learn in the boat class will have application in all areas of detailing.

I always bring in absolutely wiped-out boats for the class to train and learn on and the upcoming class on Saturday, February 4th is no exception.


Check out this soon to be beauty...


BlueWater_000.jpg



BlueWater_006.jpg





The class will be machine sanding, cutting and polishing this boat to perfection and then learning how to use a ceramic coating to seal the gel-coat.


Here's the boat for the 2017 Boat Detailing Class - 25' Bluewater Center Console





:)
 
Ditto on what Mike said.
Other thing to note
You're not going to know the difference between the finish anyways unless you do side by ..same goes with LSP
As for the customers, they simply may not have the eye to tell difference even if you showed them test spots side by side.
End result will still be the same..
Quality work from detailer, which = happy customer.
 
Would the long strong without forced rotation be beneficial on Gel Coats? Prior to using the Flex 3401, my Porter Cable DA was not that effective at removing gel scratches from sandy feet etc... Switching to a forced rotation was night and day. I could increase the speed add some pressure and watch the abrasives do their job. I have not used the Rupes and with Flex releasing their new long stroke I am curious to know how it would do on Gel Surfaces.
 
PC,GG6 and Flex can do it all. Correction and waxing. Long throw just for doing paint correction.
 
attention2detaillhc said:
Would the long strong without forced rotation be beneficial on Gel Coats?


Prior to using the Flex 3401, my Porter Cable DA was not that effective at removing gel scratches from sandy feet etc...
Click to expand...

And that's the difference between any free spinning tool and a gear-driven tool.


attention2detaillhc said:
Switching to a forced rotation was night and day. I could increase the speed add some pressure and watch the abrasives do their job.
Click to expand...


And just to add, it's forced rotation AND forced oscillation. Two actions. Forced rotation only would be a rotary buffer. I'm sure you know this but others will read this thread into the future.



attention2detaillhc said:
I have not used the Rupes and with Flex releasing their new long stroke I am curious to know how it would do on Gel Surfaces.
Click to expand...


That's a good question but we need to be more specific. Any free spinning tool will work great on gel-coat in GREAT condition.

Now if we get more specific and ask if any free spinning tool will work great at removing deep oxidation out of a severely neglected gel-coat boat then I would give the edge to any gear-driven tool, be it a rotary buffer or the FLEX 3401.

It's a speed factor and a power factor. The ability to maintain pad rotation no matter the condition of the gel-coat boat or the shape of the panel gives any gear-driven tool an edge.


In my boat detailing classes we go over how to work smarter and not harder. That's a cute cliché that gets thrown around a lot but we really do learn this in the boat detailing class. Point being, we use gear driven tools to remove both sanding marks and deep oxidation but we finish out with free spinning tools for a show car finish on a boat.


:)
 
Mike Phillips said:
And that's the difference between any free spinning tool and a gear-driven tool.





And just to add, it's forced rotation AND forced oscillation. Two actions. Forced rotation only would be a rotary buffer. I'm sure you know this but others will read this thread into the future.






That's a good question but we need to be more specific. Any free spinning tool will work great on gel-coat in GREAT condition.

Now if we get more specific and ask if any free spinning tool will work great at removing deep oxidation out of a severely neglected gel-coat boat then I would give the edge to any gear-driven tool, be it a rotary buffer or the FLEX 3401.

It's a speed factor and a power factor. The ability to maintain pad rotation no matter the condition of the gel-coat boat or the shape of the panel gives any gear-driven tool an edge.


In my boat detailing classes we go over how to work smarter and not harder. That's a cute cliché that gets thrown around a lot but we really do learn this in the boat detailing class. Point being, we use gear driven tools to remove both sanding marks and deep oxidation but we finish out with free spinning tools for a show car finish on a boat.


:)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like I need to invest in the long through as well. I have noticed that when finishing with the 4301, I really have to pay attention to how even the gel looks on long flat surfaces. This is especially true on closed bows. There have been several times when I have had to re-finish a section as it looked a little uneven. Based on what you said I imagine with the longer throw and non forced rotation it would be a little smoother looking on the finish.
 
I will give you my most honest, down to earth response regarding the Flex vs Rupes question. Please understand that I don't intend on brand bashing here so I'll word it accordingly; Everything is based on both my opinion and experience.

I was recently faced with an option to buy a second polisher, it would have been between the Rupes MKII or a Flex Polisher.

A little back story, I came from a Porter Cable 7424XP, moved on to the Griot's Garage 6" Polisher and finally upgraded to a Flex 3401. Because of the volume I'm handling now, I need something ready to go and a backup polisher just in case.
At this point, my F3401 has a few hundred hours of usage under its belt. I've compounded and polished Aston Martins, GTRs, ACRs all the way to Civics and Integras.

The F3401 played well with others without demanding usage of specific pads, compounds or polishes. Unfortunately, I can't say the same with Rupes, it sppears that it requires their brand of compound, polish and pads to function per Rupes standards. My F3401 was paired with Buff and Shine Pads, Lake Country Hybrid Pads; Meguiar's, Sonax, Menzerna compounds and polishes were used and everything functioned as expected.

The 3401 paired with Hybrid pads just hasn't let me down, it hasn't stalled on curvaceous panels, broken down, required service, it just goes and wants to keep going.

After a few hundred hours though, I decided it was time to be safe and buy a backup polisher. I really wanted to try something different and wanted to try the Rupes MKII just based on the feedback that this forum had provided me with. I already had my mind made that I was going to do the Rupes, I had Mike Phillip's book on Rupes polishers and everything in hand, I just needed to make the move. My local detailing shop had an MKII on demo so I had the opportunity to handle it

Just upon picking it up, I knew it wasn't for me. The fit and finish just wasn't for me. Saying it felt cheap would be an insult to Rupes, but the fit and finish was not the same as my 200+ hour used Flex. I explained to one of my close friends that the Flex feels like you're holding one solid piece of concrete, strong, solid, tight and willing to break. The Rupes felt like plastic in comparison, I noticed a bit of jiggle and play in the plastic and wasn't a huge fan of how it felt in my hands. Something that also stayed with me in the back of my mind is that I reached out to Rupes support via PM here and didn't receive a response - I was attempting to get them to help me make my decision and purchase.

Again, this is just my personal opinion based on my experience. I was turned off by how the Rupes felt in my hands; I placed the order for my PE142-150 the same day. No regrets. If anyone from Rupes is reading this, if you still have my PM handy, feel free reach out, I'd love to talk over the phone. I'm sure I'll be in the market for another polisher next year.
 
Toxix said:
I will give you my most honest, down to earth response regarding the Flex vs Rupes question. Please understand that I don't intend on brand bashing here so I'll word it accordingly; Everything is based on both my opinion and experience.

I was recently faced with an option to buy a second polisher, it would have been between the Rupes MKII or a Flex Polisher.

A little back story, I came from a Porter Cable 7424XP, moved on to the Griot's Garage 6" Polisher and finally upgraded to a Flex 3401. Because of the volume I'm handling now, I need something ready to go and a backup polisher just in case.
At this point, my F3401 has a few hundred hours of usage under its belt. I've compounded and polished Aston Martins, GTRs, ACRs all the way to Civics and Integras.

The F3401 played well with others without demanding usage of specific pads, compounds or polishes. Unfortunately, I can't say the same with Rupes, it sppears that it requires their brand of compound, polish and pads to function per Rupes standards. My F3401 was paired with Buff and Shine Pads, Lake Country Hybrid Pads; Meguiar's, Sonax, Menzerna compounds and polishes were used and everything functioned as expected.

The 3401 paired with Hybrid pads just hasn't let me down, it hasn't stalled on curvaceous panels, broken down, required service, it just goes and wants to keep going.

After a few hundred hours though, I decided it was time to be safe and buy a backup polisher. I really wanted to try something different and wanted to try the Rupes MKII just based on the feedback that this forum had provided me with. I already had my mind made that I was going to do the Rupes, I had Mike Phillip's book on Rupes polishers and everything in hand, I just needed to make the move. My local detailing shop had an MKII on demo so I had the opportunity to handle it

Just upon picking it up, I knew it wasn't for me. The fit and finish just wasn't for me. Saying it felt cheap would be an insult to Rupes, but the fit and finish was not the same as my 200+ hour used Flex. I explained to one of my close friends that the Flex feels like you're holding one solid piece of concrete, strong, solid, tight and willing to break. The Rupes felt like plastic in comparison, I noticed a bit of jiggle and play in the plastic and wasn't a huge fan of how it felt in my hands. Something that also stayed with me in the back of my mind is that I reached out to Rupes support via PM here and didn't receive a response - I was attempting to get them to help me make my decision and purchase.

Again, this is just my personal opinion based on my experience. I was turned off by how the Rupes felt in my hands; I placed the order for my PE142-150 the same day. No regrets. If anyone from Rupes is reading this, if you still have my PM handy, feel free reach out, I'd love to talk over the phone. I'm sure I'll be in the market for another polisher next year.
Click to expand...

I actually found the Rupes and Flex similar in fit and finish. They both have a high quality feel in the hand - to me anyways.
 
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