Eldorado2k
Well-known member
- Nov 9, 2015
- 14,545
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HD Speed and HD Poxy = 2 weeks, maybe 3 since the truck is white.
I agree, your post deserves its own thread.
Sealant comparison
- Thread starter RippyD
- Start date
HD Speed and HD Poxy = 2 weeks, maybe 3 since the truck is white.
I agree, your post deserves its own thread.
Well, Eldorado2k, thanks for the guess. I'm actually not recording chronological time, but the number of times a particular product can survive an alkaline wash cycle. Although I'm trying to wait 24 hours between washes, I'm washing pretty frequently, sometimes multiple times in one day. My assumption is that most of my customers wash around once a week, and if a product survives at least 12 washes it's likely a good product to recommend for a quarterly application. If my data is somehow compared with Rippy's we could likely find the longest lasting products.
Anyway I'm going to entitile this post:
Chapter Two: death of an AIO
In this initial round of testing I used several products that would generally be referred to as AIOs, or "All In One" products. These products combine polishing and/or cleaning agents along with a layer of protection. The products used were the ones I had on hand. They include Klasse AIO, Duragloss 105 and Duragloss 501, and finally my two favorite products to use: HDspeed and Meguiars D166. Ive used the duragloss a couple of times on white fleet vehicles and liked the way it brightened the paint and seemed durable. However, I really like the latter two because of ease of use, and these products are pretty trim and sunlight friendly and they have become my "go to" for minor paint enhancement. I was anxious to see how they fared
But after only three washes in my touch free the hydrophobic characteristics of some of these products failed.
Here's the pic.
Yes, that's right: HDSpeed, Meguiars D166, and Klasse AIO ALL quit working. I had never used the Klasse before so I wasn't overly upset, but my two "go to's", my babies, let me down. I was heartbroken. even the spray on products Optimum optiseal, Meguiars Fast Finish,and Sonax PNS are still strong, but those three AIOs have failed. However, the Duragloss AIOs are still going strong. So I'll really have to take a look at those products and see if they have enough corrective abilities to replace Speed and D166.
Here's the passenger side, all other sealants and waxes are doing at least OK
Another option is to start topping Speed and D166 with Fast Finish or optiseal. Both of those are economical enough to use and can be applied quickly, we'll just have to see how long they last. Or skip the AIO route altogether and just use a standard polish followed up with a spray on protectant. Which one of these options do you think would give the best results?
Cruzscarwash
New member
- Oct 16, 2015
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My new process is to wipe away the polish with a PMS sprayed towel and be done in one go
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Well, Eldorado2k, thanks for the guess. I'm actually not recording chronological time, but the number of times a particular product can survive an alkaline wash cycle. Although I'm trying to wait 24 hours between washes, I'm washing pretty frequently, sometimes multiple times in one day. My assumption is that most of my customers wash around once a week, and if a product survives at least 12 washes it's likely a good product to recommend for a quarterly application. If my data is somehow compared with Rippy's we could likely find the longest lasting products.
Anyway I'm going to entitile this post:
Chapter Two: death of an AIO
In this initial round of testing I used several products that would generally be referred to as AIOs, or "All In One" products. These products combine polishing and/or cleaning agents along with a layer of protection. The products used were the ones I had on hand. They include Klasse AIO, Duragloss 105 and Duragloss 501, and finally my two favorite products to use: HDspeed and Meguiars D166. Ive used the duragloss a couple of times on white fleet vehicles and liked the way it brightened the paint and seemed durable. However, I really like the latter two because of ease of use, and these products are pretty trim and sunlight friendly and they have become my "go to" for minor paint enhancement. I was anxious to see how they fared
But after only three washes in my touch free the hydrophobic characteristics of some of these products failed.
Here's the pic.
Yes, that's right: HDSpeed, Meguiars D166, and Klasse AIO ALL quit working. I had never used the Klasse before so I wasn't overly upset, but my two "go to's", my babies, let me down. I was heartbroken. even the spray on products Optimum optiseal, Meguiars Fast Finish,and Sonax PNS are still strong, but those three AIOs have failed. However, the Duragloss AIOs are still going strong. So I'll really have to take a look at those products and see if they have enough corrective abilities to replace Speed and D166.
Here's the passenger side, all other sealants and waxes are doing at least OK
Another option is to start topping Speed and D166 with Fast Finish or optiseal. Both of those are economical enough to use and can be applied quickly, we'll just have to see how long they last. Or skip the AIO route altogether and just use a standard polish followed up with a spray on protectant. Which one of these options do you think would give the best results?
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RippyD
Active member
- Jan 24, 2016
- 1,258
- 4
- Thread starter
- #344
Long overdue update. I got a few updates over the last few weeks but didn't get a chance to post them. Work, kids back to school, vacation, sick parent, other stuff... The last month has been more Winter-like than not. We've had rain for about half the time, which is unusual for this time of year. Making a change going forward - be sure to see the last paragraph below.
Spreadsheet is updated.
Summary:
White Sentra: Go page 32 to see the current product map for the Sentra. Roof is 100% done. Water is not moving at all. I tired Reset and claying. Nothing. I will try to pressure wash it later today to see if that gets anything going. Sentra hood: Reload is working better than anything else. DG 931 as a QD is still working (yes, this seems crazy), Mothers Gold and Aquawax are still doing more than other areas but are done. It turns out that HD Speed never got applied, so that has become a control section (sorry Cruz). No idea why everything on the roof is done. Sentra roof video - only 30 seconds but shows nothing moving. Even after 1:30 nothing was happening. Sentra hood video. Update: pressure washed the Sentra roof. About 10% of the BF area started clearing but nothing else.
Boxster: Current product map on page 33. Rejex still working well. Stoner Bead Max is working ok. Aquawax + FC&S is still working a little. Duragloss 531 QD is not working. Boxster video.
Rover hood: Product map is on page 16. Everything is done except SFX-4 and 3M Synthetic wax. I could probably call 3M this week. SFX-4 is almost done as well. I pressure washed the hood a few weeks ago and after that everything cleared quickly. No idea what happened, but it was hard to differentiate. Rover hood video left side showing SFX-4 still working.
Sept 25th
Sentra roof: McKee's 10 Min working and BF Crystal Seal working about 50%. Everything less or not at all.
Sentra hood: Everything working. Aquawax and Mother's Speed are close to done. HD Speed not there.
Boxster hood: Aquawax QD is done. Bead Max, Rejex, And AW + FC&S are still working.
Rover hood: SFX-4 still working. Everything else not. Not showing the right side. 3M wax still working.
Sept 11th and 12th:
Boxster hood: everything working.
Rover hood: 3M Wax and SFX-4 working. Everything else not. (Video is upside down. Will edit and fix when I have time later today or tomorrow.)
August 26:
Sentra Hood: All working.
Sentra Roof: Aquawax and BF Crystal Seal are done. Everything else working.
Future testing: After seeing another testing video (thanks Cruz) I'm going to start using vertical panels rather than horizontal. It seems to be easier to differentiate since slope isn't a factor. The good news is that the Rover has billboard sized door panels so I should have some good opportunity. I may start pressure washing for each test as well. Not sure if that shortens the life of a sealant. So long as I do it consistently I'm not sure it matters. I also need to do fewer products. Getting these all tested was great, but it's a PITA to get them all tested. A few going on the Rover doors later today.
Spreadsheet is updated.
Summary:
White Sentra: Go page 32 to see the current product map for the Sentra. Roof is 100% done. Water is not moving at all. I tired Reset and claying. Nothing. I will try to pressure wash it later today to see if that gets anything going. Sentra hood: Reload is working better than anything else. DG 931 as a QD is still working (yes, this seems crazy), Mothers Gold and Aquawax are still doing more than other areas but are done. It turns out that HD Speed never got applied, so that has become a control section (sorry Cruz). No idea why everything on the roof is done. Sentra roof video - only 30 seconds but shows nothing moving. Even after 1:30 nothing was happening. Sentra hood video. Update: pressure washed the Sentra roof. About 10% of the BF area started clearing but nothing else.
Boxster: Current product map on page 33. Rejex still working well. Stoner Bead Max is working ok. Aquawax + FC&S is still working a little. Duragloss 531 QD is not working. Boxster video.
Rover hood: Product map is on page 16. Everything is done except SFX-4 and 3M Synthetic wax. I could probably call 3M this week. SFX-4 is almost done as well. I pressure washed the hood a few weeks ago and after that everything cleared quickly. No idea what happened, but it was hard to differentiate. Rover hood video left side showing SFX-4 still working.
Sept 25th
Sentra roof: McKee's 10 Min working and BF Crystal Seal working about 50%. Everything less or not at all.
Sentra hood: Everything working. Aquawax and Mother's Speed are close to done. HD Speed not there.
Boxster hood: Aquawax QD is done. Bead Max, Rejex, And AW + FC&S are still working.
Rover hood: SFX-4 still working. Everything else not. Not showing the right side. 3M wax still working.
Sept 11th and 12th:
Boxster hood: everything working.
Rover hood: 3M Wax and SFX-4 working. Everything else not. (Video is upside down. Will edit and fix when I have time later today or tomorrow.)
August 26:
Sentra Hood: All working.
Sentra Roof: Aquawax and BF Crystal Seal are done. Everything else working.
Future testing: After seeing another testing video (thanks Cruz) I'm going to start using vertical panels rather than horizontal. It seems to be easier to differentiate since slope isn't a factor. The good news is that the Rover has billboard sized door panels so I should have some good opportunity. I may start pressure washing for each test as well. Not sure if that shortens the life of a sealant. So long as I do it consistently I'm not sure it matters. I also need to do fewer products. Getting these all tested was great, but it's a PITA to get them all tested. A few going on the Rover doors later today.
Cruzscarwash
New member
- Oct 16, 2015
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It's ok and you're welcome...lol
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RippyD
Active member
- Jan 24, 2016
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- Thread starter
- #346
gregpack, this looks great. The impact of washing is something else I wanted to do. Glad to see you tackling it. How many times can you wash? Does something like Reload shorten the lifespan some some sealants? Some question about with pressure washing and probably several others.
DetailZeus
Member
- Nov 30, 2016
- 259
- 2
That's really disappointing on the AIO's, I would have expected better. And it's hard to argue there's a surfactant film because the adjacent panels look fine.
Hi Rippy, sorry, I've been tied up a few days. I'm hoping it's OK that I'm posting here and not starting my own thread. Your research is much more comprehensive and mine can be a mere footnote.
I haven't played with reload at all, but any wash related questions I'll be glad to at least attempt to answer.
I will also comment that I run my chemicals a good bit stronger (higher alkalinity)than most operators, so if it survives my wash it should survive any local touch free wash.
OK Guys, I'm going to try to catch up and provide some useful information.
At about the six wash mark the first sealant failed. It was HDPoxy. When you add in the relatively short life Rippy got out of the product on his tests Poxy is being culled from my stock. The only thing I should note is that HD Poxy was purchased in 2016 and since then I "think" I have read they have reformulated it to increase longevity. I hope so, Other liquid sealants are still performing quite well at this point in the cycle .
Also, at this point (six washes)I see that Optiseal is compromised and will likely be the first spray and wipe to fail. Meguiars UFF and Sonax PNS are still in good shape, as well as the others.
At about the six wash mark the first sealant failed. It was HDPoxy. When you add in the relatively short life Rippy got out of the product on his tests Poxy is being culled from my stock. The only thing I should note is that HD Poxy was purchased in 2016 and since then I "think" I have read they have reformulated it to increase longevity. I hope so, Other liquid sealants are still performing quite well at this point in the cycle .
Also, at this point (six washes)I see that Optiseal is compromised and will likely be the first spray and wipe to fail. Meguiars UFF and Sonax PNS are still in good shape, as well as the others.
Still catching up on old data. These washes occurred in mid September. I had hot weather here and daily highs were in the 90s. I had some troubleshooting work to do on two different units and washed six times in one day doing test washes. Although the chemical is still strong I'm putting it down on a thoroughly cooled wet surface, so those repeat applications are a little easier on the sealants.
By the way, if you're wondering about the long term chemical effects of a touch free car wash on painted surfaces, My truck is my "test vehicle" and has been washed thousands of times over the past eighteen years. I often let the presoak product dry on the surface. The paint is still in good shape for such an old vehicle. My wife's former Tahoe is a 2003 model and although not washed as much still looks very good. I do believe those chemicals can prematurely fade and degrade plastics, but I have no control vehicle to compare to. Also, anodized black trim that has not been clear coated does not fare well. Early 2000s Mercedes and PT cruisers had this problem and as a result the presoaks would cause a streaky "rainbow" appearance on the trim around the windows. It would polish out with a cleaner wax, but would return if washed again. I may try a few dressings on trim in the future and see which ones survive the best. One caveat: I do not use an low ph presoak which contains Hydroflouric acid. HF is the same ingredient in Meguiars wheel brightener. It works well on inorganics in snow melt compounds but over time could potentially cloud glass. I don't know what the long term effects, if any that presoaks containing HF on painted surfaces are.
Spray and Wipes: It was during this test day that we had optiseal fail. Ultimate fast finish has been compromised but is beading better. Sonax PNS is still going strong, but because of high product costs I do not really put that product in the same category as the other two. In the future I may try using a AIO (D166) covered by ultimate fast finish and see if I can get equal durability or if the D166 compromises UFF.
Liquids& Paste: Except for poxy, all other liquids sealants seems to be working. Meguiars ultimate paste wax is compromised but still technically seems to be working.
By the way, if you're wondering about the long term chemical effects of a touch free car wash on painted surfaces, My truck is my "test vehicle" and has been washed thousands of times over the past eighteen years. I often let the presoak product dry on the surface. The paint is still in good shape for such an old vehicle. My wife's former Tahoe is a 2003 model and although not washed as much still looks very good. I do believe those chemicals can prematurely fade and degrade plastics, but I have no control vehicle to compare to. Also, anodized black trim that has not been clear coated does not fare well. Early 2000s Mercedes and PT cruisers had this problem and as a result the presoaks would cause a streaky "rainbow" appearance on the trim around the windows. It would polish out with a cleaner wax, but would return if washed again. I may try a few dressings on trim in the future and see which ones survive the best. One caveat: I do not use an low ph presoak which contains Hydroflouric acid. HF is the same ingredient in Meguiars wheel brightener. It works well on inorganics in snow melt compounds but over time could potentially cloud glass. I don't know what the long term effects, if any that presoaks containing HF on painted surfaces are.
Spray and Wipes: It was during this test day that we had optiseal fail. Ultimate fast finish has been compromised but is beading better. Sonax PNS is still going strong, but because of high product costs I do not really put that product in the same category as the other two. In the future I may try using a AIO (D166) covered by ultimate fast finish and see if I can get equal durability or if the D166 compromises UFF.
Liquids& Paste: Except for poxy, all other liquids sealants seems to be working. Meguiars ultimate paste wax is compromised but still technically seems to be working.
OK, guys, we're here at about the 15 wash mark. Chronologically this is only over ten days, but this is the equivalent of over three months of once weekly washes.
Here's the pic of the products again:
And here is a shot of the truck on the final rinse pass as my wash finishes up:
Here's the pic of the products again:
And here is a shot of the truck on the final rinse pass as my wash finishes up:
Live observations that the camera didn't or isn't catching:
Meguiars UFF lasted longer than optiseal
Meguiars Utimate Paste is still there but is likely going to be the next to fail. With the potential trim staining a paste can cause I see no reason to use it so it is being culled from the product line.
Sonax Polymer Net Shield is lasting nicely but it's behavior is changing slightly so I predict it will fail quicker than the more durable liquids. It has way outperformed the other spray on wipe offs. Cost aside, it looks to be a great choice for those that want a SOWO type product.
Both Duragloss products are still working , but 501 beads better and is likely going to outlast 105. Both last long enough that either is likely a good choice for an AIO if they are easy enough to use and offer enough corrective abilities to make the user happy (I haven't really evaluated that). I predict 501 will be longer lasting though.
Jescar Power Lock gets a big thumbs up! Easy on, easy off and very durable. This will likely be my liquid sealant of choice, and due to its' impressive performance I'm tempted to buy some colorlock and try it.
Collonite 845: I confess I've always heard people on here sing the praises of that product and am embarrassed to say that I have never tried it. It is still beading water like a duck's back and unless something dramatically changes looks like it might be the longevity winner.
Final note-I've always heard touch free car washes will "strip wax" and although true, it appears there are plenty of products that are reasonably durable and can withstand the chemical bath a reasonable number of times.
Meguiars UFF lasted longer than optiseal
Meguiars Utimate Paste is still there but is likely going to be the next to fail. With the potential trim staining a paste can cause I see no reason to use it so it is being culled from the product line.
Sonax Polymer Net Shield is lasting nicely but it's behavior is changing slightly so I predict it will fail quicker than the more durable liquids. It has way outperformed the other spray on wipe offs. Cost aside, it looks to be a great choice for those that want a SOWO type product.
Both Duragloss products are still working , but 501 beads better and is likely going to outlast 105. Both last long enough that either is likely a good choice for an AIO if they are easy enough to use and offer enough corrective abilities to make the user happy (I haven't really evaluated that). I predict 501 will be longer lasting though.
Jescar Power Lock gets a big thumbs up! Easy on, easy off and very durable. This will likely be my liquid sealant of choice, and due to its' impressive performance I'm tempted to buy some colorlock and try it.
Collonite 845: I confess I've always heard people on here sing the praises of that product and am embarrassed to say that I have never tried it. It is still beading water like a duck's back and unless something dramatically changes looks like it might be the longevity winner.
Final note-I've always heard touch free car washes will "strip wax" and although true, it appears there are plenty of products that are reasonably durable and can withstand the chemical bath a reasonable number of times.
Cruzscarwash
New member
- Oct 16, 2015
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A few things are they failing or just being masked because of the soaps/chemicals used?? Maybe try a reset wash and then drive through again just to make sure??
Also so I'm clear in case I missed something this is a touchless wash correct so no brushes??
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Also so I'm clear in case I missed something this is a touchless wash correct so no brushes??
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Markymapo1
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- Jun 26, 2018
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Based on all the data from these studies posted I put Collinite 845 on F150 a few weeks ago (my winter drive in northeast PA) will see how it holds up. My nonwinter drive (except when the roads are free of salt n snow n slush) is a Cayman S which I put Duragloss 111, looking forward to seeing how it holds up ( since it is a fair weather drive it should las pretty long). Thanks again for all this info.
Cruzscarwash
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I'd like to see fk1000p tossed I'm this car wash mix
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RippyD
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- Jan 24, 2016
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- #358
Great info, gregpack.
Markymapo, what year is your Cayman? Probably my favorite car, esp the flat 6 models. Trying hard to get my wife to swap her Boxster S for a Cayman S. Actually hoping for a GT4. (Friend of mine has a Cayman R for sale, which is also tempting.) How do you like DG 111 on your Cayman in terms of looks? Did you apply with DG 601, or by itself?
Markymapo, what year is your Cayman? Probably my favorite car, esp the flat 6 models. Trying hard to get my wife to swap her Boxster S for a Cayman S. Actually hoping for a GT4. (Friend of mine has a Cayman R for sale, which is also tempting.) How do you like DG 111 on your Cayman in terms of looks? Did you apply with DG 601, or by itself?
I'm going to assume not necessary because all the products are getting the same treatment. You can see which ones are still beading nicely HOWEVER, I will say that if I spray water on my dry hood many of these products are still beading. So they may still be offering some level of protection. I'll be the first to admit that this "study" is unscientific, but if greater hydrophobic qualities= greater protection then you can make some assumptions by their observed behavior.
Correct, this is a touch free wash. I have a friction wash I may try soon and attempt to accelerate failure of products.
RippyD
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- Jan 24, 2016
- 1,258
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- Thread starter
- #360
100% with you. I often get inconsistent results after washing. That's why I started drying or waiting a day to check sheet. No idea what the cause is. As you mentioned, if it's not consistent across products does that say something about them? Not sure. I also get good beading on the areas of my hood with no product, which makes it even more confusing.