IronX and IronX Clones - Fun Facts

nakranij said:
I don't feel like starting a new thread since this one is already out there but I have some questions about this. Iron X is crazy expensive. I have a local shop that also has a Iron X knock off product and they supply local car washes. They want $90 a gallon for the knock off Iron X.

I googled the active ingredients listed above and cannot find a supplier for them. They must be EPA regulated or something until they are diluted out for a product like Iron X. But come on guys, there is no way Iron X or the Iron X knock offs are that expensive. Can't I buy a gallon of the active ingredient and mix my own Iron X?
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I use McKee's and buy it by the gallon it's considerably less expensive, especially when you get 20-25% off during sales along with free shipping. I've used several of these products and not only is McKee's very reasonably priced but IMO the best one I've used.
 
A little nerdy + maybe a little OCD + occasional insomnia = this kind of stuff.
 
RippyD said:
This is great info. Thanks for sharing.


So far I've only seen two: Duralgloss and Eagle One, which I just learned about from you. The Hot Rims cleaners don't appear to have oxalic acid per their MSDSs. If I'm reading this wrong or you know of others, please let us know.

About a year ago I was looking for wheel cleaners that had flourides so I could avoid them. Then I couldn't sleep one night and it turned into this spreadsheet of wheel cleaner info. There are no doubt more I could add. If I ever get a free hour I'll try to get the rest of the Eagle One wheel cleaners added and whatever others I can find.
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I think it is the Hot Rims that is for chrome.
 
I have a gallon of the Hi-Temp brand wheel cleaner that is oxalic acid based, but that's not OTC. It's my mild acid cleaner. Megs WB is my heavy duty acid cleaner. I avoid using both of them if I can.
 
DBAILEY said:
I have a gallon of the Hi-Temp brand wheel cleaner that is oxalic acid based, but that's not OTC. It's my mild acid cleaner. Megs WB is my heavy duty acid cleaner. I avoid using both of them if I can.
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High Temp MSDS lists only hydrochloric acid (fixed - stupid spell checker). Other than removing mineral deposits I'm don't know what the advantage of strong acid is as a cleaner. I'm sure there is one. If anybody knows please enlighten us.

Belo said:
Hot rims is good for all. It's all I've used over the past few years. I have to say there are crannies on my G8 rims that it doesn't just "melt" away, but I'm not sure there's any wheel product that can be sprayed on and rinsed off. I love the stuff. just my .02.
Meguiars Hot Rims All Wheel & Tire Cleaner, cleaner for factory wheels
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There are three Hot Rims wheel cleaners. The Chrome one has ammonium biflouride in it which is nasty stuff health-wise. I go out of my way to avoid it. You may want to do some reading.
 
Okay, sounds like I'm mistaken on the Megs Hot Rims cleaners then. I have seen it on somebody else's OTC wheel cleaner though. I know that my jug of Hi-Temp cleaner says oxalic acid on the label. It is probably almost 10 years old. They may have changed their formula then.
 
There is a quite a list of health hazards and the worst part that I learned about ammonium biflouride was that is very easily absorbed through your skin. The vapor is also via lungs and your eyeballs. You are supposed to wear a chem suit, respirator and goggles when using that stuff for industrial uses.
 
I have gone to the local auto parts store and got the Meguiar's Ultimate All Wheel Cleaner when it is buy one get one free and it has the same sulfur smell and changes purple, but I don't want to keep 6 or 12 bottles on a shelf in the garage. I want 1 1 gallon bottle. But I don't think I can get it much cheaper than that.
 
No you are right. I have about 25 bottles of the DUB wheel cleaner on the shelf. When it goes on sale for $5 at AA, AZ and O'Reilly's I stock up. Nobody else's price even comes anywhere close to that per oz. You could probably do the same thing with the Megs Ultimate. I add a 1/2oz of Carpro IronX paste to each bottle to make it thicker and cling a bit better. I'm sure it makes it a bit stronger too.
 
DBAILEY said:
Okay, sounds like I'm mistaken on the Megs Hot Rims cleaners then. I have seen it on somebody else's OTC wheel cleaner though. I know that my jug of Hi-Temp cleaner says oxalic acid on the label. It is probably almost 10 years old. They may have changed their formula then.
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That seems crazy to me that they switched from oxalic to hydrochloric. Why would you put HCL in a wheel cleaner? I'm thinking the MSDS is wrong... Other then etching/cleaning concrete or removing mineral stains from porcelain, I don't know what use or advantage it has in the home, especially given the increased hazard relative to oxalic.
 
Route246 said:
I watched the Forensic Detailing Channel video regarding IronX/Clones. Here are some fun facts about how it works.

  • The active ingredient is a solution called sodium thioglycolic acid
  • An early mention in scientific journals from 1927 here: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ja01407a010
  • There is a patent on file for using it as an acne treatment: US4107330A - Topical application of thioglycolic acid in the treatment of acne
    - Google Patents
  • Thioglycolic acid has been used in hair waving lotions and depilatory creams - from the above patent filing
  • The horrible smell is from the same active ingredient that hair perm chemicals use, I knew I smelled it before but couldn't remember where. Walking past hair salons is where I smelled it when I was younger, not so much today as perms are not common these days
  • Here is an article regarding rust removal, has anyone tried using IronX to remove rust? JSTOR: Access Check
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I have tried using Iron-X on a rusted out steel rim and it did absolutelly nothing. It works on iron deposits but when you are talking about rusted metal, you need something far stronger than Iron-X. Maybe if you could soak the part in Iron-X it would work well, but the 5 mins you can leave on the surface when sprayed is simply not enough. For small parts you can use any acid I think. I have removed rust by soaking in vinegar, also did it with Wheel Britenener (Hydrofluoric acid) and it worked well also. I know people use molasses and apple cider vinegar as well but I think that would be more expensive.

If you are trying to remove rust on car parts, grinding, sand paper, metal brushes all do a good job. I would finish with an acid to remove the very small particules that may remain behind.

Don't forget to protect the surface once you are done or it will rust again.
 
RippyD said:
Good info. Couple of additions:

  • A few products use ammonium thioglycolate rather than sodium, namely the CarPro and Gyeon products, and at least one other not sold here. Not sure why they use the ammonium rather than sodium variant. Calcium thioglycolate is also produced.
  • Oxalic acid will also remove iron oxide via a similar process to thioglycolic acids. It doesn't have a dead skunk smell, but also doesn't change color as a visual indicator. The only wheel cleaner/iron remover I'm aware of that uses this is Duragloss All Wheel Cleaner.
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Ahhhhh! I purchased for Iron remover locally and I thought it wasn't working. I sprayed it on about 10 cars and never got a color change even on cars where Iron Particles were visible on the paint. I purchased some Ferrex to replace it. Now I guess I will have to try it again and see if it is actually removing the rust particles even if it is not changing color.

BTW Ferrex is a far inferior product to Iron-X. It doesn't smell as bad, and what sold me on purchasing it is that Optmum claims it removes Tar as well as Iron.... In my experience (used about 64 ounces so far),

- it dries very quickly when used outside and it has a tendency to stain the paint. If it does, only solution is to polish.
- It doesn't react quickly. Often, it will dry before changing color, so that is really bad!
- When you rinse it off, most of the rust particles will still be there. I have not done a side by side comparisson with Iron-X but I don't remember having to apply Iron-X 3 or 4 times then grab a clay bar because it's not working
- It does nothing to tar. Maybe it softens it? Either way, it will be just as difficult to remove as if you had not used Ferrex. So that aspect is really deceptive and bogus.

On the plus side, it smells better and it's a bit cheaper.
 
RippyD said:
There are three Hot Rims wheel cleaners. The Chrome one has ammonium biflouride in it which is nasty stuff health-wise. I go out of my way to avoid it. You may want to do some reading.
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I know. But the one I linked is designed for all. And for those looking to simplify their collection of chemicals so that they don't have separate wheel cleaners will probably do well with it. I know it's worked for me, that's all.
 
Belo said:
I know. But the one I linked is designed for all. And for those looking to simplify their collection of chemicals so that they don't have separate wheel cleaners will probably do well with it. I know it's worked for me, that's all.
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saw this today and i think it reinforces my point. and if not, it's still funny.
 
Belo said:
I know. But the one I linked is designed for all. And for those looking to simplify their collection of chemicals so that they don't have separate wheel cleaners will probably do well with it. I know it's worked for me, that's all.
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It's made for all factory coated rims. And it can stain/etch bare metall surfaces. That's why they did the chrome and is it the aluminum stand alone rims cleaners.
The all wheel cleaner is that it cleans both the rim and tire. And is a corrosive cleaner which is not so good to use on some bare metalls.
 
BlackMDX said:
Here is a warning that I have not seen mentioned. When you use one of these products, you will surely stink up the air where you are working, but the worst part is when you get in your car and the odor is there too! And then you find out that it lingersinside the car for days afterward. For that reason, it is unlikely that I will ever use it again.
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or get it on your clothes, shoes...
 
At least 30 wheel cleaners in my spreadsheet claim to be safe on all wheels.
 
I guess I am going to try Sonax next, I am sure it works great. Are there ever any buy one get one deals on the 16 ox bottles or the 5L jugs of it?lol. It is still expensive like iron x.
 
regarding the HCL in wheel cleaners:
HCL also goes by a name of muriatic acid and you can buy it by the gallon at depot or lowes or walmart, or likely any pool store, it's often used to adjust PH in swimming pools, and for concrete cleaning.
HCL is a very good cleaner works and it works great on chrome,
HCL is dangerous on aluminum I think either will etch or dissolve and its use on aluminum is not recommended, but like with anything the concentration and way it is used matters a lot.

brake pads are now all ceramic, but when they were mostly semi-metallic prior to the market becoming all ceramic brake pads however long ago, wheel cleaners with high concentration of HCL and when the wheels were chrome did a great job of removing the brake dust (iron) from the wire/chrome wheels. needed to be careful of spraying wire wheel cleaner with HCL and not let it dry on paint or clearcoat or it would stain/etch and the same with on glass.

For unpainted steel HCL does an ok job of removing rust if it's strong enough and is often used to de-rust and prep steel for painting.

oxalic acid, just gave away an old west marine bottle of it that you mix with water, used often for boat hull cleaning algae and for brightening/bleaching teak wood. I don't think oxalic hurts aluminum as bad as HCL and is considered slightly safer than HCL on aluminum or steel in some respects but can still easily discolor or etch various metals and finishes so you have to be careful. and oxalic acid can really fume and stink.
 
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