Headlight Upgrade - LED replacing Halogen

[Don M]

You started a thread a few months back about your bulbs. And I commented in your thread about H13 options.:xyxthumbs:

You'll have to forgive me, I'm getting older and suffering from CRS - *Can't Remember Stuff.:laughing:

 

[Route246]

Thank you for sharing. Unfortunately the images are over exposed to really give a proper assessment of the quality of the beam. At that distance there appears to be a tremendous amount of foreground light (right under where the hotspot should be located). But technically your H11 projector (Koito) was actually designed to have more than typical foreground light (as shown in my previous wall shots). It just may be exaggerated by the unfocused light inside the projector.

View attachment 62621

I reduced the exposure as much as the iPhone would allow. I have three pro camera rigs (5DM3s and a7Rii) I can shoot raw and set exposure properly but it’s a hassle compared to using iPhone .



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[Don M]

I found the other thread (It was almost exactly a year ago)

Here are your responses:

First off,

Installing a "HID kit" into a reflector housing headlamp is highly not recommended. This is because the light source is not an equal match to a reflector that was designed for a halogen filament source. In the majority of reflector headlamps the end result is a beam pattern that may appear to be brighter than halogen but at the cost of excessive glare that is dangerous to other drivers. Now, some people may say "well, I just compensate by lowering the beam". This still does not improve your vision at night because what you've essentially done is increased the foreground light (and decreased your distance light) which causes the pupils to constrict which then restricts your distance vision. Excessive foreground light will always fool the human eye in believing there is "better" light when there really is not. Another important note is that HID bulbs are just way too bright for a reflector housing. A halogen reflector simply cannot harness this light and the end result is a flood of illumination that overpowers the reflector.

The best way to improve your lighting is indeed to retrofit a quality pair of HID projectors. You've made it clear that you have a tight budget. There are some options that can reduce your overall cost. You can opt for a new set of aftermarket headlamps (like a set from TYC) for about $140. OR you can search ebay for a lightly used pair for $80. Then head over to theretrofitsource.com (TRS) and check out their budget friendly Acme H1 projector retrofit kit that includes everything you need for the project for $135. There are more better options that cost more in case you're interested. Obviously you will need to perform the retrofit yourself but its really not that difficult with simple tools. There are plenty of helpful youtube videos which demonstrate the entire process.

Here is a photo of a TRS Morimoto Mini H1 kit installed to give you an idea of what it could look:

If the HID projector retrofit falls outside of your price range still, you can then check out LED bulb replacements. Now technically LED bulbs should fall into the same realm as HID bulbs in that they are not designed to properly work in a halogen reflector but surprisingly there are some LED bulbs that do in fact work. Each headlamp is different and will respond differently to LEDs despite having the same halogen bulb application. Testing and comparing is necessary to find that magical bulb. Do not rely on your eyes solely to tell you if something is better. A cheap lux meter can be your best friend when testing.

One thing to remember when choosing a LED bulb for your application is to find one that mimics the original filament source. Also most, if not all, LED bulbs that contain emitters which are domed are most always going to produce the worst beam pattern. This is because a domed LED emits a tight concentrated beam which ends up focusing its light in one specific region of a reflector where as a undomed LED has a much wider spread. Also a domed emitter is usually larger in size than the undomed LED (known as chip scale package chips or CSP). This has a disadvantage because there is too much light surface area. A LED bulb using CSP chips are much smaller and mimic the size of a halogen filament which usually translates into a better beam when compared to the larger emitter (but doesn't guarantee an overall better beam when compared to halogen).

Lucky for you my vehicle also utilizes the H13 bulb. I have tried a handful of different LED bulbs on the market and have concluded there is no perfect LED bulb. There are give and takes. And while the current LED bulb on my vehicle produces the best beam pattern I've tested (the give), it still isn't perfect. I would not even say its considerably brighter than halogen. The lux meter does not lie though. After the LED bulb is fully warmed, there is a 20% increase in light output. What's alarming is that 32% of light output is lost in the first 30 minutes (the take)! The aluminum radiator just isn't sufficient to draw enough heat away from the chips to keep them cool & happy. Their obviously being overdriven. The result is a loss of luminance.

Also note that there is an increase of glare above the cutoff (the take). Nearly double over halogen. Its not noticeable in the images below because of the lower exposure. And frankly in person its not as noticeable. More testing at greater distances on the road to measure acceptable glare on the oncoming traffic side is needed to truly determine if this glare is excessive. Some headlamps just produce more glare than others (with original halogen bulbs) but that doesn't mean they don't fall within an acceptable range.

You'll notice the CSP chips I spoke of earlier. Tightly packaged and virtually the same size as both the low and high beam filaments in virtually the same location. These bulbs use the Seoul Semiconductor WICOP Y19 chips.

And here is an example of a badly designed bulb...

I have plenty more examples of H13 LED bulbs. Let me know if I can assist further.

And for the record, I'm currently in the process of retrofitting a pair of LED projectors because I'm tired of the inferior performance of LED bulbs . I've got a pair of Koito bi-led projectors out of a Prius. Twice as bright as halogen (lux measured) and twice as wide.

 

[Don M]

Here is part II

IMO, aftermarket halogens are just not worth it. For the same price you can find a LED equivalent with slightly more output and a true 5000-6500K color temperature. Oh yeah and you'll never have to worry about burning out a bulb like all aftermarkets. Its not a question of if, just a matter of when.

All these bulbs are just tinted and designed to draw more power (60+W over standard 50W) to compensate for the color filter which obstructs it light output. For most you will not be able to identify a difference in color temperature within the 3000 kelvin range. Once you reach 4000 kelvin and over you definitely will notice the "blue" filter which is highly unappealing to the eyes. Even in the daylight when the blue coating reflects all inside the headlight housing.

 

[Don M]

A lot of good information ... unfortunately my little brain can't wrap around it without a "Best to Worst" chart

 

[evo77]

So that new image reveals better details. I've made a comparison below of yours versus the original halogen bulb.

First thing I noticed is that your cutoff has now become less sharp. Meaning there is light leaking above the cutoff adding more glare. Secondly the hot spot appears to be more intense way far below the position that it should be, which is up nice and tight against the cutoff (yellow circles). Because the intensity of the light is too low (red circles) it increases your immediate foreground illumination which gives the appearance that you have better brighter lights. And technically you do have brighter lights, except all the light is focused in front of your vehicle when in fact it should be shining farthest down the road, which is where you need it the most. So in reality you may have not really improved your distance vision and have less light in that region than you did with your original halogen.

 

[Route246]

So that new image reveals better details. I've made a comparison below of yours versus the original halogen bulb.

First thing I noticed is that your cutoff has now become less sharp. Meaning there is light leaking above the cutoff adding more glare. Secondly the hot spot appears to be more intense way far below the position that it should be, which is up nice and tight against the cutoff (yellow circles). Because the intensity of the light is too low (red circles) it increases your immediate foreground illumination which gives the appearance that you have better brighter lights. And technically you do have brighter lights, except all the light is focused in front of your vehicle when in fact it should be shining farthest down the road, which is where you need it the most. So in reality you may have not really improved your distance vision and have less light in that region than you did with your original halogen.

I will be adjusting these upward a degree or two at a time to get the hotspot elevated. It is discernible when sitting in the car and looking forward. They are directed too close to the front of the car pointing into the ground and I think they can be adjusted upward slightly. Our '18 RAV4 has pretty aggressive alignment upwards to I can put the two vehicles side-by-side (3.5-car driveway space) and direct them to the garage door(s) and make sure I'm not creating something too obnoxious. I also have my '17 Focus RS which also has aggressive alignment. The last test will be to have my wife drive the car to watch for obnoxious glare for oncoming cars. I just don't want to create distress for oncoming cars.

 

[evo77]

I will be adjusting these upward a degree or two at a time to get the hotspot elevated. It is discernible when sitting in the car and looking forward. They are directed too close to the front of the car pointing into the ground and I think they can be adjusted upward slightly. Our '18 RAV4 has pretty aggressive alignment upwards to I can put the two vehicles side-by-side (3.5-car driveway space) and direct them to the garage door(s) and make sure I'm not creating something too obnoxious. I also have my '17 Focus RS which also has aggressive alignment. The last test will be to have my wife drive the car to watch for obnoxious glare for oncoming cars. I just don't want to create distress for oncoming cars.

Be careful with your upward aim. Half degree up may be too much. Your cutoff now is no longer as defined as it originally was. If you increase your aim you'll be putting this glare in the eyes of the other drivers. And because you have to keep the aim low, it will still not improve your beam spread on the road as all the light will remain in the immediate foreground.

Your 18 RAV4 Hybrid has the LED projector headlamps. The good thing about this headlamp is that there is a specific designed glare free region built into the beam. So these can be aimed much higher which improves distance vision because of that window.

However, your Prius halogen projector does not have this glare window. With a H11 bulb though, the glare above the cutoff is kept under maximum standard requirements (or round about). When a improper LED bulb is inserted it changes the entire focus and increases light where it should'nt be directed and decreases light where it should directed.

Matching the aim height of your RAV4 is not advised.

 

[Breese147]

This thread is really interesting to me because I have just purchased Hikari LED bulbs. To me another important factor of an LED is the water resistance rating not only on the bulb but on the(forgive me if I use the wrong terminology) driver or resistor. Since I drive a 2001 Toyota Tacoma it has very poor water guards to prevent water from entering while driving in the rain. My bulbs are h4 size. I’ve heard of diode dynamics but the convenience of amazon prime made me impulse buy the Hikari LEDS. Any help or info is greatly appreciated.


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[Route246]

Be careful with your upward aim. Half degree up may be too much. Your cutoff now is no longer as defined as it originally was. If you increase your aim you'll be putting this glare in the eyes of the other drivers. And because you have to keep the aim low, it will still not improve your beam spread on the road as all the light will remain in the immediate foreground.

Your 18 RAV4 Hybrid has the LED projector headlamps. The good thing about this headlamp is that there is a specific designed glare free region built into the beam. So these can be aimed much higher which improves distance vision because of that window.

However, your Prius halogen projector does not have this glare window. With a H11 bulb though, the glare above the cutoff is kept under maximum standard requirements (or round about). When a improper LED bulb is inserted it changes the entire focus and increases light where it should'nt be directed and decreases light where it should directed.

Matching the aim height of your RAV4 is not advised.

Thank you. I'll keep that under advisement.

To be perfectly honest, the current setup exceeds my expectations vis-a-vis the stock halogens so any improvements from here on are a bonus. The high-beams are just plain sick. I used it up in the hills above us last night where there is no light to speak of and it was really bright, wide and helpful.

 

[Cruzscarwash]

i didn't get the LED but went to the HID in my prius from the retrofit source and they have been noting but amazing

 

[Route246]

i didn't get the LED but went to the HID in my prius from the retrofit source and they have been noting but amazing

So you know the wattage draw of your HID? I tried another brand which I s a huge improvement over the first ones. I’m going to give the first ones to a friend so no big deal. The hotspot or brightness is now high in the projection. It’s all good.


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[Route246]

Swapped out previous LEDs for these: Amazon.com: H11 LED Headlight Bulb Conversion Kit - Unique 4-side Patch LED Headlamp H11/H8/H9,Upgraded CSP LED Chips,8000 Lumens Extremely Bright,6000K Super White,50000-Hour Heavy Duty by oEdRo,2-Year Warranty: Automotive

The result has been better. Don't have a shot of the pattern yet.

 

[Cruzscarwash]

So you know the wattage draw of your HID? I tried another brand which I s a huge improvement over the first ones. I’m going to give the first ones to a friend so no big deal. The hotspot or brightness is now high in the projection. It’s all good.


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35watts so it's less then my stock bulbs

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[evo77]

I now have a Toyota H11 halogen projector in my possession. I have tested 5 different LED bulbs. 4 out of 5 failed to meet the same intensity as a H9 halogen bulb. I chose a H9 as a baseline because this is the cheapest/best performance upgrade over a standard H11.

Although there was only 1 LED bulb that succeeded in higher intensity it managed to still fail in overall performance. The LED light source was still not fully focused inside the reflector bowl as it should have been, which altered the intensity pattern (as well as the overall pattern). Also this particular LED bulb is using a very poor quality chip. Color consistency is substandard as there are 3 distinct color patterns in the overall illumination. A sign of a cheap phosphor layer over the LED chip.

I hope to start posting some videos soon of my findings to my channels:

 

[Don M]

I'm going for it! My buddy at work is a part-time LED installer on all manner of vehicles. I had him order some H13 LEDs for me day Thursday and they should be in on Monday (they're coming to Cleveland Oh. from Kentucky, so it shouldn't take long). It looks like we both have next Thursday after work open and they should be installed then.

We ARE going to make sure they are properly aimed and adjusted so I don't end up being "that guy," who blinds everyone in front of them or coming at them.

I will post the results after they're in and I've driven on them a bit.

 

[evo77]

I'm going for it! My buddy at work is a part-time LED installer on all manner of vehicles. I had him order some H13 LEDs for me day Thursday and they should be in on Monday (they're coming to Cleveland Oh. from Kentucky, so it shouldn't take long). It looks like we both have next Thursday after work open and they should be installed then.

We ARE going to make sure they are properly aimed and adjusted so I don't end up being "that guy," who blinds everyone in front of them or coming at them.

I will post the results after they're in and I've driven on them a bit.

What LED bulb did you get?

 

[Don M]

What LED bulb did you get?

I don't know what brand, I'm leaving that to my buddy who does this all the time.

 

[evo77]

So I've been testing a bunch of H11 LED bulbs these past few weeks and have been finding interesting, but not surprising results.

I wanted to share the most common type of LED bulb you'll find on the market. Its these single "Cree" LED chip bulbs. I quote Cree because many are fake Cree chips and very few are genuine. And some are other claimed branded LED chips but that doesn't really matter at all because its one of the WORST type of LED chips you can use in a headlight bulb. As I've explained in my previous posts, a LED of this size and shape cannot properly mimic the halogen filament. The emitting surface area is too large and improperly shaped.

LED bulb:
CnLight h11 w/Cree XHP35

Test subject:
Koito H11 halogen projector (found in Prius, Camry and many other Toyota/Lexus models and maybe even other imports)

H11-LL bulb - @ 16FT 843 lux peak at test point 1D, V

LED bulb

As you can see, the hotspot for the LED has shifted downward ALL the way into the foreground. Peak intensity at the top, where its needed , is under 200 lux. The light reading I captured in the image above is 1 degree above the peak test point for the original halogen however it did not increase by much when moved down at the same test point. The LEDs peak intensity was only 318 lux but it was 6 degrees down from H-V!

I hope this demonstrates to all reading this that chip size, shape and design completely matter for appropriate beam performance. And know that any and all LED bulbs using a single domed LED chip will never provide better lighting performance over halogen.

 

[Don M]

My LEDs look nothing like those, they have 6 flat chips on either side in a staggered setting (one set of 3 is higher on the "bulb" than the other). Were it not for the reflector "ladle" blocking a good chunk of light, they would be perfect (No one has "flashed" me and I've had them in for over a week).

The Dead Spot Culprit: (you can see the reflection of the yellow LED chips in the reflector around the 'ladle').

BUT ... I have a 'dead spot' directly in the center of the beam pattern, but I am going to correct that with some very tight patterned LED driving lights that will be aimed to take out the dead spot(s) without blinding anyone.

So I've been testing a bunch of H11 LED bulbs these past few weeks and have been finding interesting, but not surprising results.

I wanted to share the most common type of LED bulb you'll find on the market. Its these single "Cree" LED chip bulbs. I quote Cree because many are fake Cree chips and very few are genuine. And some are other claimed branded LED chips but that doesn't really matter at all because its one of the WORST type of LED chips you can use in a headlight bulb. As I've explained in my previous posts, a LED of this size and shape cannot properly mimic the halogen filament. The emitting surface area is too large and improperly shaped.

LED bulb:
CnLight h11 w/Cree XHP35

As you can see, the hotspot for the LED has shifted downward ALL the way into the foreground. Peak intensity at the top, where its needed , is under 200 lux. The light reading I captured in the image above is 1 degree above the peak test point for the original halogen however it did not increase by much when moved down at the same test point. The LEDs peak intensity was only 318 lux but it was 6 degrees down from H-V!

I hope this demonstrates to all reading this that chip size, shape and design completely matter for appropriate beam performance. And know that any and all LED bulbs using a single domed LED chip will never provide better lighting performance over halogen.