What does it mean when a foam pad does this?

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Oats

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I've slowly been compounding my car one panel at a time when I get time. After a few small sections I usually run the pad on a towel for a second. Today I did a few panels and both times (one with a cleaned pad and one with a brand new pad) the center of the pad was sunken in after I finished a panel. I attached a picture, it was taken after running the pad on a towel although it looked the same before just not as dry on the edge. I was wonder what causes this. I'm using a Harbor Freight DA on speed 5 (out of 6) with LC orange pads and Meguiar's UC. The dip in the pad is still there after cleaning the pad in warm water, it is just less noticeable. I'm worried I'm destroying the pads. The pads were warm in the center, but not hot.

View attachment 64929

I did try using less pressure today. Before I was using more pressure and making about 4 passes before wiping it off and applying more UC. I was doing about 12-16 passes per section total. With less pressure today it seemed like the UC was workable for more passes, like 6-7, and I was doing a total of 18-21 passes.
 
I agree with Dr Oldz. 18-21 passes? I’m surprised they didn’t disintegrate.
 
Too many passes, too much heat, probably not enough product for that many passes.
 
One word: Heat.

You need to refine your technique. That is, more pads/less passes.
 
sudsmobile said:
Too many passes, too much heat, probably not enough product for that many passes.
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Or too much product which is the case a lot of times with people newer to polishing. Either way...Excessive Heat!!
 
The only reason I said that is because the pad didn't look saturated with product but I guess he could have just cleaned it before that pic.
 
Another thing to consider is that the hook and loop interface might be mismatched.

The stock plate on the HF tool has tall "J" hooks (like the Buff and Shine, and I believe the stock GG6 plates). Lake Country plates have "micro hooks" which are much shorter.

The taller hooks mixed with loop material designed for micro hooks might generate more heat at the interface, which transfers to the foam. Add a lot of speed, pressure, and extended buffing cycles, and you can blow out a pad really quick.
 
dlc95 said:
Another thing to consider is that the hook and loop interface might be mismatched.

The stock plate on the HF tool has tall "J" hooks (like the Buff and Shine, and I believe the stock GG6 plates). Lake Country plates have "micro hooks" which are much shorter.

The taller hooks mixed with loop material designed for micro hooks might generate more heat at the interface, which transfers to the foam. Add a lot of speed, pressure, and extended buffing cycles, and you can blow out a pad really quick.
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And the Pad Master has spoken............ :dblthumb2:

Never even knew this, bro. Thanks!
 
Ok, too much heat. The funny thing is I tried this new technique to reduce heat. Previously I was using a lot more pressure and the machine was getting pretty warm as well as the paint. So I tried using less pressure, moving quicker, and doing more passes.

I wasn't doing 18-21 passes without stopping. I'd add compound to the outside of the pad, make 6-7 passes, set the DA down and wipe the panel a few times, repeat 2 more times for the about 16" square section. Then I would take a water break before doing another section. I was using less compound than before too, I read too much compound can also create heat. By the time I finish the car I might actually know what I'm doing lol

Thanks for the help.

dlc95 said:
Another thing to consider is that the hook and loop interface might be mismatched.
Click to expand...

Forgot to mention I have the LC 5" backplate.
 
Oats said:
Ok, too much heat. The funny thing is I tried this new technique to reduce heat. Previously I was using a lot more pressure and the machine was getting pretty warm as well as the paint. So I tried using less pressure, moving quicker, and doing more passes.

I wasn't doing 18-21 passes without stopping. I'd add compound to the outside of the pad, make 6-7 passes, set the DA down and wipe the panel a few times, repeat 2 more times for the about 16" square section. Then I would take a water break before doing another section. I was using less compound than before too, I read too much compound can also create heat. By the time I finish the car I might actually know what I'm doing lol

Thanks for the help.



Forgot to mention I have the LC 5" backplate.
Click to expand...

Too much product. Saturated pad. You need to change pads more often.

You just quoted a man (dlc95) that can give you excellent advice on the light pressure method.
 
You need to re-evaluate your technique, buffing liquid and/or pads. That is way too many passes to accomplish what you are after. Sounds like you need to go more aggressive or like I said check your technique. I know the HF DA is actually pretty powerful. So you should be seeing result with 6 passes. 8 tops.
 
PaulMys said:
Too much product. Saturated pad. You need to change pads more often.

You just quoted a man (dlc95) that can give you excellent advice on the light pressure method.
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I got the machine, pads, and product, better let it do what it does!
 
DaveT435 said:
Or too much product which is the case a lot of times with people newer to polishing. Either way...Excessive Heat!!
Click to expand...

sudsmobile said:
The only reason I said that is because the pad didn't look saturated with product but I guess he could have just cleaned it before that pic.
Click to expand...

The pad had been cleaned in the pic. After cleaning I would put 10-12 pea size dots around the outside of the pad.
When I did my first panel last week I was making a solid circle of product around the edge. I was using a lot more pressure and speed 5.5-6. It seemed like the pad was actually spinning slower than what I did today because of the pressure. It was making the machine very warm, didn't appear to do any damage to the pads though. I was still doing 12+ passes overall to get results.

PaulMys said:
Too much product. Saturated pad. You need to change pads more often.

You just quoted a man (dlc95) that can give you excellent advice on the light pressure method.
Click to expand...

Dr Oldz said:
You need to re-evaluate your technique, buffing liquid and/or pads. That is way too many passes to accomplish what you are after. Sounds like you need to go more aggressive or like I said check your technique. I know the HF DA is actually pretty powerful. So you should be seeing result with 6 passes. 8 tops.
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I think I saw M105 at the local auto parts store, maybe I will pick up a bottle and try that. I went with UC because it is supposed to be more noob friendly. The other option would be to order some LC yellow pads.

Are pads still usable after this happens?
 
I've never used that product but it seems like you used way too much.
 
Oats said:
The pad had been cleaned in the pic. After cleaning I would put 10-12 pea size dots around the outside of the pad.
When I did my first panel last week I was making a solid circle of product around the edge. I was using a lot more pressure and speed 5.5-6. It seemed like the pad was actually spinning slower than what I did today because of the pressure. It was making the machine very warm, didn't appear to do any damage to the pads though. I was still doing 12+ passes overall to get results.




I think I saw M105 at the local auto parts store, maybe I will pick up a bottle and try that. I went with UC because it is supposed to be more noob friendly. The other option would be to order some LC yellow pads.

Are pads still usable after this happens?
Click to expand...

Consider some microfiber?

Personally, I might use that old pad to practice with on junk panels, but not on a customer car, or a vehicle I cared about.
 
Were you spreading the product out over the entire pad before polishing? It looks to me like you put product in the center and then started polishing without spreading it around the pad first. That would make the center damp, soft and compressed while the outer areas remained dry, hard and uncompresssed.

DA's don't generate a lot of heat unless they are the forced-rotation type like the Rupes Bigfoot. The HF DA is not forced rotation. It just uses centrifugal force to rotate the pad. That's why if you apply more than just moderate pressure the pad stops spinning. A rotary on the other hand, generates a lot of heat.
 
10-12 pea sized drops is way to much product. 4-5 to the first section passes and then 3-4 when reload product. Use just the polishers weight and just a little extra pressure as a firm relaxed grip to steer it on the horisontall panels and try to get the same pressure on the vertical panels. If it's a very neglected or a hard clearcoat you might be better with a more coarse pad and compound. If you do 1 panel 3 times per sections you have done 3 panels with 1 pad. And that is to much even with the less of a mount of compound on the pad. It's not only old compound that saturate the pad. But the clearcoat you compounding off is in that pad too. Then it's depends on how clean the paint is when you start to polish and the amount of oxidized paint. The more of that and the shorter polishing period the pad can handle. With the 6-8 passes per sections you often uses 1 pad per panel except the roof and hood where you use 2. This is to don't let the pad overheat and you wear on them the least this way.

If you put to much of pressure on the polisher. It's going to be working harder and get warmer. One way polishers leads out the heat is through the center of the backing plate. That's why you often sees the pad wears and even melted foam in the center of the pad. And why they have started to get center holes in the pads to get the heat out there. Feel on the backing plate when you switch pads and let the polisher cool off some if to much heat was generated.
 
I was following the pictures here for priming the pad and adding product. The three pea size drops are much larger than my drops (and larger than any peas I have eaten). I think my 10-12 drops totalled somewhere between the "pea" sized and dime sized drops in those pictures.
 
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