Please Help Fixing Swirl Marks!

[ThunderGun10]

Please Help Fixing Swirl Marks!


About 2 months ago I bought a very lightly used 2017 F150 in the Lithium Grey color from a local dealer. The day I bought it it was cloudy and snowy but I did my best to inspect the undercarriage and paint and didn't notice any issues. In the following weeks I noticed that there are swirl marks pretty much all over the truck that are quite noticeable when you look at it in the sun.

Since then I have been doing quite a bit of reading on how to fix the swirl marks. Needless to say, it is a bit overwhelming for someone with no detailing experience considering the amount of products on the market. I also debated taking it to a local detailer but I have a hard time trusting anyone to do a really good job and i'm not sure how to find a reputable one.

So now I have purchased a Porter Cable 7424 XP polisher and some Chemical Guy's hex pads. However, I am still feeling uncertain about how to proceed.

My biggest concern is using something that is too aggressive and doing more damage to the paint. I plan on having this truck for a very long time so I don't want to do something that is going to cause issues down the road. My goal is to make the swirls less noticeable with doing the least amount of paint removal as necessary.

I am also quite busy so I would like to do this in the quickest way possible (a day or less). Can you give me some recommendations on how to proceed? I am looking for product recommendations and steps I should take. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!

Below are some pictures of the swirl marks.

Thanks!

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[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Please Help Fixing Swirl Marks!


About 2 months ago I bought a very lightly used 2017 F150 in the Lithium Grey color from a local dealer.

Congratulations on the new-to-you truck.

Swirls are a regular problem and come from the previous owner and possibly the dealership car wash staff.

So now I have purchased a Porter Cable 7424 XP polisher and some Chemical Guy's hex pads. However, I am still feeling uncertain about how to proceed.

Can you return the Hex pads?

Apologies - I'm a Fat Pad Man. Flat pads are faster and easier to clean. Simply run a pad cleaning brush over the face and BOOM - all the spent product and removed paint is off the pad. With a design - you have to what? Move the bristles of a brush in and out of the recessed areas? Time killer. Anytime a pad has a design in the face of the pad it's a place contaminants can build up and then come out while buffing and cause a problem.

Porter Cable is the safest 8mm free spinning random orbital polisher on the market and also the weakest. Don't get me wrong, I've fixed as many cars with this tool as anyone breathing, I'm just point out compared to the Griot's Garage 6" ROP it's weak.

You can OVERCOME the weakness with 5.5" diameter THIN foam buffing pads. I do't believe the Hex pads are thin nor small in diameter - this means the Porter Cable will struggle to maintain pad rotation and PAD ROTATION is what it's all about if you want to remove swirls. If a pad is simply vibrating or jiggling against the paint you are wasting your time.

My biggest concern is using something that is too aggressive and doing more damage to the paint. I plan on having this truck for a very long time so I don't want to do something that is going to cause issues down the road. My goal is to make the swirls less noticeable with doing the least amount of paint removal as necessary.

I am also quite busy so I would like to do this in the quickest way possible (a day or less). Can you give me some recommendations on how to proceed? I am looking for product recommendations and steps I should take. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!

Click the link below - read my article - buy the BLACKFIRE One Step and never look back. One and done. It uses AMAZING abrasive technology. If you read enough of my 40,000+ posts and articles you will come to learn that in my opinion and my experience the MOST important factor when buffing out a car is the abrasive technology.

Not the tool, the pad or the person. Sure these things are important but THEY DON'T TOUCH THE PAINT FIRST - the abrasive touch the paint first. Kind of easy to see and figure out why abrasive technology is the most important.


Review: BLACKFIRE One-Step Cleaner/Wax by Mike Phillips

Here's my test car, it's an old swirled-out 2-door Chevy

In case you can't tell - this is the before shot

This is the after shot - the little dots you see are not defects - they are gold metallic flakes in the paint

This was after 8 section passes using the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polisher with a 6.5" Griot's Orange BOSS Foam Cutting Pad on speed 6






Before
This is the paint above my Test Spot. Note I've turned the overhead lights off to get rid of the their reflection on the panel. That's why you see a color change in the paint. At this point the light shining down is just the SCANGRIP Sunmatch Swirl Finder Light.

Moving down the panel towards my tape-line

On the tape line

Just past the tape line...

The middle of my test spot...

You cannot go wrong with this product. It does three things in one step

1. Removes swirls
2. Polishes the clearcoat clear and glossy
3. Leaves behind a synthetic sealant for protection

Very NON-abrasive thus very safe.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I wish you would have joined and asked questions and then invested money....


For everyone that will read this thread into the future - before you start spending money - simply join the forum and ask a few questions - I don't have 17 year online history of leading people down the wrong path.



Click here to join the AutogeekOnline Detailing Discussion Forum

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

And unlike a Facebook Message or an Email I can do this on the forum

Share articles with clickable links
Share pictures in a manner that makes sense
Share videos


So read this and even though you bought the Porter Cable 99.9" of the info in this article applies to you.


Here's what you need to get into machine polishing - Recommendations for a beginner by Mike Phillips


In the above article I recommend these 5.5" pads - I'd recommend you get them to - Don't build up a collection of large thick pads - they won't rotate well when dry and they certainly won't rotate at all as they become saturated with product.


Lake Country ThinPro Foam Pad System 5.5 Inch

Notice the word THIN in the name of the pad - ThinPro

Get a 6-pack of the white foam polishing pads. If your budget allows, get some orange pads too just incase your truck has hard paint. Normally when doing a ONE STEP process you want to stick with foam "polishing" pads NOT foam cutting pads.


Here's my article on this topic and my normal practice.

Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips



See how handy a real discussion forum is?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Next....

Watch this video - it will show you EXACTLY what to do with your Porter Cable Polisher. In the detailing industry, I coined the terms

Test Spot
Section Pass

I think that makes me qualified to make a video showing how to do these two things and that's what you'll learn in this video PLUS a ton of other tips and techniques. Hands-down one of the best videos I've ever been a part of...

And "yes" the Chevelle in the video is the real-deal. Not only a numbers matching 454 Chevelle but it was also jacked up and we fixed it.


No mock-up detailing on this forum.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

More...


Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation

Here's a quick video that show how and why to mark your backing plate to see and monitor pad rotation while doing any correction or polishing steps.

 

[ThunderGun10]

Wow! I was not expecting such a detailed response. This is all great information and very much appreciated.

Can you return the Hex pads?

I actually ordered the pads this morning on Amazon and I just went and successfully cancelled the order so I won't be using the Hex pads. Your reasoning makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately I can't return the PC polisher so that is what I will be using with some of the white ThinPro pads.

I wish you would have joined and asked questions and then invested money....

I agree. I honestly didn't expect this level of feedback and so I purchased the pads based on online reviews and because of the recognizable name (Chemical Guys).

I am going to order some of the ThinPro pads and the BF One Step. I will also watch the video you provided before I go anywhere near my truck. This is exactly the type of guidance I was looking for. I'm probably not going to have time to do this for a few weeks but I will certainly follow up with any additional questions I have and/or hopefully some pictures of my shiny swirl-free truck

Thanks you!

 

[ThunderGun10]

And I already have a couple follow up questions

Is there a specific backing plate you suggest to use the the PC polisher and the ThinPro pads? I see there are a lot of 5" hook and loop backing plates but some are flexible. Is flexible better?

Also, I get that the Black Fire One Step is theoretically "one step", but does that mean that I don't need to follow up with a dedicated wax?

 

[fly07sti]

Where are you located? Maybe someone on this forum is close and could lend you a hand and get your truck done in no time.
As far as following up with a dedicated wax, No you don’t “have to” but you can if you’d like. I personally use a spray wax or sealant after using an AIO. Very quick application and removal and helps me double check for anything I may have missed.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Wow! I was not expecting such a detailed response. This is all great information and very much appreciated.

No problem - this is how I've teen typing out help for 17 years - seems like I made a career out of showing people how to remove swirls.

And I already have a couple follow up questions

Is there a specific backing plate you suggest to use the the PC polisher and the ThinPro pads? I see there are a lot of 5" hook and loop backing plates but some are flexible. Is flexible better?

In the article I linked to, I include 2 recommended 5" backing plates that will fit the 5.5" LC pads - I would get the Lake Country mostly because it's yellow and it will be easier to "mark" with a Sharpie and easier for your eyes to monitor pad rotation.


I think I mentioned this previousy, but TONS of info in this one article I wrote.


Here's what you need to get into machine polishing - Recommendations for a beginner by Mike Phillips


I would be tempted to offer $100.00 to anyone that could find the same amount of info or more in a Facebook Group post. :laughing:

From the above article,

Lake Country 5" Backing Plate

Also, I get that the Black Fire One Step is theoretically "one step", but does that mean that I don't need to follow up with a dedicated wax?

Nope - don't have to. You can if you want longer protection. As a rule, and this applies to all one-step products, the protection lasts about 3 months. Look for a long lasting liquid paint sealant and then apply it using the PC and a soft foam waxing pad.

This product is good but a bit sticky to wipe-off. As long as you only apply to small sections at a time and then wipe off it's phenomenal in longevity.

SONAX Polymer Net Shield - Closest thing to a coating without being a coating

Heck even if you only applied it to the horizontal surfaces I think you would be impressed. You can also apply to plastic trim. I do.

 

[PaulMys]

You won't go wrong listening to Mike. This is exactly how I learned. I read every article Mike had written up to that point, then re-read them 2-3 times.

I also bought Mike's book "A Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine" and read that baby over and over. By the time I was ready to use the polisher (I started with the PC too, and it's a great machine with the 5" pad set up) I was confident that I could do it, and do it right.

The funny thing you will find after you get about 5-10 minutes into your first polishing session is: You will be saying to yourself "Damn, not only is this easy, it's fun!"

Good luck, and hope you have fun with the awesome new truck. And please post pics!!

 

[ThunderGun10]

Where are you located? Maybe someone on this forum is close and could lend you a hand and get your truck done in no time.
As far as following up with a dedicated wax, No you don’t “have to” but you can if you’d like. I personally use a spray wax or sealant after using an AIO. Very quick application and removal and helps me double check for anything I may have missed.

I am located near Madison, WI.

I have a bottle of spray wax so I might consider using that after using the BF One Step.

 

[ThunderGun10]

In the article I linked to, I include 2 recommended 5" backing plates that will fit the 5.5" LC pads - I would get the Lake Country mostly because it's yellow and it will be easier to "mark" with a Sharpie and easier for your eyes to monitor pad rotation.

Sorry about that, I missed that link. I just read through that post and again, it was extremely useful information. It is exactly the type of stuff I had been struggling to figure out as a beginner.

Nope - don't have to. You can if you want longer protection. As a rule, and this applies to all one-step products, the protection lasts about 3 months. Look for a long lasting liquid paint sealant and then apply it using the PC and a soft foam waxing pad.

This product is good but a bit sticky to wipe-off. As long as you only apply to small sections at a time and then wipe off it's phenomenal in longevity.

SONAX Polymer Net Shield - Closest thing to a coating without being a coating

Heck even if you only applied it to the horizontal surfaces I think you would be impressed. You can also apply to plastic trim. I do.

Sounds good. I think for my first go at it I will try without putting anything on after and see how it goes. The truck sits in my garage during the week because I use a little commuter car for work, so I am thinking (hoping?) I might get a little longer protection out of the BF One Step.

Again, thanks for your quick and informative responses

 

[ThunderGun10]

You won't go wrong listening to Mike. This is exactly how I learned. I read every article Mike had written up to that point, then re-read them 2-3 times.

I also bought Mike's book "A Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine" and read that baby over and over. By the time I was ready to use the polisher (I started with the PC too, and it's a great machine with the 5" pad set up) I was confident that I could do it, and do it right.

The funny thing you will find after you get about 5-10 minutes into your first polishing session is: You will be saying to yourself "Damn, not only is this easy, it's fun!"

Good luck, and hope you have fun with the awesome new truck. And please post pics!!

The thing I have been struggling with is the confidence that I can do it and do it right, although I have started reading through all of Mike's stuff and it is getting me more excited and confident to do it.

I will definitively post some pics after I do it, but it probably won't be for a couple weeks.

 

[jdgamble]

A little more feedback... get orange pads. White will require a lot more effort. I was in the same boat a couple years ago, and I was concerned about damaging my paint. I started off very conservatively, but eventually ended using orange pads almost exclusively. You won’t damage your paint if you do what you see in the countless youtube/Mike videos online.


Sent from my iPhone using AGOnline

 

[SWETM]

The thing I have been struggling with is the confidence that I can do it and do it right, although I have started reading through all of Mike's stuff and it is getting me more excited and confident to do it.

I will definitively post some pics after I do it, but it probably won't be for a couple weeks.

Before the first time I was polishing a car. I got me a scrap panel to test out how the feeled and how it was with products and so on. Then did a friends very neglected car LOL. Most important is to not stress it the first time. Have plenty of time available cause it is quite time consuming to polish a whole car and other steps. Look at how some protect with towels and masking tape is also something that both protect and makes clean up after polishing more easy to do. Even if most newly polishes is almost dust free. It can be a matte trim that you don't want to be buffed into then it's easier to tape it first and minimize any oops.

 

[ThunderGun10]

Is it necessary to claybar before using BlackFire One Step? I have never used a claybar before but my understanding is that it is done to remove contamination before polishing. However, the BF One Step product page on AutoGeek says the product removes contamination. Does this mean I can go straight from washing the vehicle to using BF?

 

[Calendyr]

Is it necessary to claybar before using BlackFire One Step? I have never used a claybar before but my understanding is that it is done to remove contamination before polishing. However, the BF One Step product page on AutoGeek says the product removes contamination. Does this mean I can go straight from washing the vehicle to using BF?

Doing a paint decontamination prior to correcting the paint is a good idea. If you don't, your pads will be forced to clean the paint as you do the correction and it will make it less efficient and load them with dirt forcing you to clean them more often and work harder to correct the defects.

The decontaminations steps that you should make are the these:

One the vehicle has been washed and detailed,
1. Iron decontamination using a fallout remover like Iron-X. This will melt away the iron contaminants on the paint and make them much easier to remove with the clay bar
2. Tar decontamination. Only needed if tar is present. Tar appears as small black dots on the paint and is usually located on the lower part of the car.
3. Water spot removal. If you have heavy water spots, this will allow you to either remove them or at least weaken them before correcting. You polishing step will also be able to remove them but again, all you can clean away before the polishing will make the polishing step faster and easier.
4. Sap removal. If present, this has to be done before polishing. To remove sap, you will need isopropyl alcohol. Just put a drop on the sap, let it sit for about a minute then use a microfiber towel wet with isopropyl alcohol and it should come out without much effort unless it has been baking there for months.
5. Clay bar. I suggest you get a claybar alternative instead of an actual clay bar. Something like NanoSkin Quick Prep sponges work much faster than a claybar and you don't have to throw them away if you drop them. A claybar can technically do a better job but it's a much longer process and as I said, if you drop it then it's trashed and can't be used anymore, and these things are easier to drop when you are not used to them.

Hope this answers all your questions.

 

[Paul A.]

Wow! This thread contains everything you need to knock those swirls down. Typical of Mike's generous help as well as other experts tossing in supplements.

Let me help on the mental side...

I was where you are many years ago. I was deathly afraid of damaging the paint on my pride and joy. Equipped with a PC and some quality polishes I researched I timidly began to touch my paint with the "machine" and maybe at speed 2-3! It wasn't long after that I realized i really wasn't working much.

As i gained more experience and confidence it wasn't long before I had that thing cranked up to 6! I slowed my arm speed and began to see results.

The lesson I learned...You are NOT going to damage your paint with a PC, even at 6! The saying at the time I still remember is "the only way you'll damage the paint is if you drop the machine on it".

The bottom line I will try to impart is don't fear the process of machine buffing. The PC will NOT damage your paint. While that may be reassuring to hear, once you get hands on experience you'l realize that.

Follow Mikes recomendations to a t and have at it. And then check back in with us so we can all smile with you!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Is it necessary to claybar before using BlackFire One Step?

I have never used a claybar before but my understanding is that it is done to remove contamination before polishing.

However, the BLACKFIRE One Step page on AutoGeek says the product removes contamination. Does this mean I can go straight from washing the vehicle to using BF?

In the context of the page - the word contamination would mean any film or oxidation on the surface, not bonded contaminants like overspray paint, industrial fallout, etc.

When buffing with foam pads, if there are any little BUMPS on the paint, (bonded contaminants), usually foam will just glide over them - it won't remove them, at least not all of them. What works better is to MECHANICALLY remove them first and you do that with clay or a clay substitute.


Here's my co-host from our former TV show, AJ showing how to use detailing clay. After you wash the truck, simply do the Baggie Test


The Baggie Test as seen on Competition Ready TV with AJ and Mike Phillips

The Baggie Test

The Baggie Test is a simple test anyone can do at home in their garage to check and inspect if their car has contamination that needs to be removed.

You should alwasy do the baggie test to a clean, dry car. So wash and dry your car before you do the Baggie Test. And keep in mind that if you discover little bumps on the paint when you feel the paint through the sandwich baggie AND you just washed and dried the car - this means these contaminants have a strong enough bond to the paint that they DIDN'T WASH OFF and this means you need to use detailing clay to remove these contaminants.


How to use the Baggie Test to inspect your car's paint


Step 1: Wash and dry car.

Step 2: Feel the paint first with your clean, dry hand.

Step 3: Now feel the paint with your hand inside a clean plastic sandwich baggie.


NOTE: Use a light touch so you don't accidental scratch the paint anytime you're doing the baggie test.




Results from the Baggie Test?

If you feel little bumps on the surface this is a sign that your car's paint is contaminated and needs to be clayed.



How to clay your car


For Kyle Tucker's 1970 Chevelle "The Villain" - we used Mothers California Gold Clay Bar Paint Saving System.



Step 1: Kneed the Mothers clay bar into a patty about the size of a pancake.

Step 2: Spray some Mothers Instant Detailer onto a section of paint.

Step 3: Rub the clay patty back and forth using straight line motions over the section of paint.

Step 4: After you feel the clay patty begin to glide effortlessly over the paint stop claying and use a clean microfiber towel to wipe off the residue.


This section is now clayed and you can now move onto a new section of paint. Divide body panels of your car into smaller sections, about 2 feet by 2 feet or smaller and after claying a section and wiping it dry, move onto a new section until you have clayed all the horizontal surfaces. If you feel contaminants on the vertical panels using the baggie test you can clay these surfaces too.

After claying your car you should apply a fresh coat of wax. The Mothers Clay Bar Kit includes a sample of Mothers Synthetic Wax which contains enough wax to cover an average size passenger car.


Here's AJ about to inspect the paint using the Baggie Test

Use a light touch - that's all that's needed to inspect your car's paint for contamination.

You can also inspect glass and other hard surfaces and if you discover little bumps it's okay to clay these surfaces also.

Mike explains where contamination comes from, which are any type of air-borne contaminants like,

• Overspray paint
• Industrial fallout
• Traffic pollution
• Tree Sap Mist

Mother's clay bars come in a protective plastic wrap to keep them clean until ready to use. Before using the clay bar remove it from the plastic wrapper.

Next using your thumbs and fingers, knead the clay bar into a patty about the size of a pancake.

Spray a section of paint using the Mothers Instant Detailer. Use enough product to make the surface wet so the clay patty will glide over the paint.

Then placing your had flat against the patty of clay, rub the clay patty in a back and forth motion over a section of paint.

Normally you'll feel the clay patty drag a little as it is removing contamination. As the contaminants are removed the clay will begin to glide effortlessly. This is a sign the contaminants on this section of paint have been successfully removed.

Next step...

After claying a section, use the Mothers microfiber towel to remove the residues and then move onto a new section. Repeat this till all the contaminated panels are clean and smooth.