Ceramic vs. Wax - Can We Cut To The Chase?

[acuRAS82]

You generally seeing a ‘warmer’ look with wax and a glass/wet look with ceramics?

With wax: I see wet, warm with deep reflections. If I’m in my garage looking at the hood, it appears I can reach inside the paint to touch my garage ceiling (reflection). Contours of a car show smooth light reflections.

With ceramic sprays (coating lites or maintenance) I see bright, sharp reflections that sit on the surface... like the way glass reflects. I’ve never thought about reaching my hand into the paint looking at ceramics, but I’m more focused on whether the reflection is actually brighter than the real life object being reflected. Contours seem sharper to me as well.

So I think carnauba and sealants look wetter, just my opinion. Glass and mirrors don’t give me the illusion of wetness. Soft, flowing reflections do. This is all subjective and my opinions are formed by me obsessively staring at my paint from familiar angles and unfamiliar angles, while constantly trying new things. Particularly on my 3 vehicles of metallic silver, metallic black and solid black.

 

[PaulMys]

I’d prefer calling it self therapy! Working on your car, mowing the yard, etc...standing back, drinking your favorite beverage and saying “damn that looks good”!

Just my opinion!


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This sums up the entire argument, Jay.

But of course, we may still need our battle armor........

 

[Neatfreak2000]

So I think carnauba and sealants look wetter, just my opinion.

So out of the gate you see sealants (I assume you mean ceramic sealants) and wax as both wet and warm.

But then the maintenance sprays (high silicone content vs high wax) turns the wet looking ceramic into more glassy looking while the wax maintenance sprays keep the waxed car wetter looking?

That’s an interesting observation.

 

[acuRAS82]

So out of the gate you see sealants (I assume you mean ceramic sealants) and wax as both wet and warm.

But then the maintenance sprays (high silicone content vs high wax) turns the wet looking ceramic into more glassy looking while the wax maintenance sprays keep the waxed car wetter looking?

That’s an interesting observation.

Sorry, the statement about wetness (“So I think carnauba and sealants look wetter, just my opinion“)was standalone and I was really talking about traditional sealants. Most sealants don’t have a warm look IMO. But I do believe they look wet. And mostly candy coated, mostly smooth, somewhat sterile.

As far as ceramic sealants, I’ll keep it simple and say some look more like traditional sealants (candy-coated); some look more ceramic (glassy). So combining the looks, I would say ceramic sprays/sealants are not warm, have some glassy, sharpness and some candy coated, wet, smoothness.

I hope I’m not confusing things. True coatings, some sprays like PA High Gloss, etc. are really glassy in my eyes. True sealants, and some sprays (BF SiO2 Sealant) are really candy coated looking. Most other sprays are somewhere in that spectrum in my eyes. I don’t see many SiO2 sprays have the warm, deep carnauba look added in, but I do see some carnauba look in some ceramic waxes (Synergy, Nano, EcoCoat Wax), but these are also part glassy.

 

[Finick]

I have to disagree that a well prepped car won’t allow someone to tell the difference between wax and a coating. Wax vs wax, sure. Coating vs coating, sure. But I think the ceramic and carnauba wax looks are so different, that someone who does this hobby could probably pick out which side is which after a quick stroll around the car..

I’d venture to say I’m in the minority of the people on this forum who hardly sees a difference between the looks of different LSPs.

I don’t know if it’s just my eyes or what, but they just all look the same to me. I haven’t ever bothered to try and pick up on the nuances though, because I like to live in my little world of blissful ignorance.


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[Coatingsarecrack]

I will forever from here on out have a ceramic coated car. That being said nothing more stunning than a freshly polished car with nice layer of ‘nauba.

Also with that being said a ceramic coated car with freshly topped with PA cosmic is a a thing of beauty and my LSp combo of choice...for now....


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[FUNX650]

I’m talking about the DIY ceramic application not the process done by the dealer when you first buy the car.

Never applied ceramic before so doing my research. Ok, so forget most of the benefits about ceramic coating like a hard shell around your car, protection from tree sap, longer time between application, easier to was the car, etc. I’m interested one thing - Shine! So here is the question:

- Lets say you applied one half of your car with a ceramic coating like, oh say, Meguiar’s ceramic product and the other half of of the car with Meguiars best wax product and then you drove your car up my driveway. When I go out to greet you would I be able to tell the difference?

and as a follow up-

If the answer to the first part is - yes the wax would be shinier, could you then apply wax to the ceramic side and throw the remaining ceramic in the trash can never to be used again? Would you have to remove the ceramic first?

I know I’m over-simplifying it but remember I’m only interested in shine for now.

Thank you.

•Believe it or not, the majority of vehicle
owners don’t worry about the purpose
of LSPs—they serve as sacrificial barriers.
-Just like you stated above: They want shine!


•To obtain “shine”, you clean and polish
the paint to the nth degree. [Again: adding
a sacrificial barrier (LSP) to such smoothed
out surfaces is to protect this refinement for
a certain time frame that’s particular to each
class/type of LSP.]
-Just a FYI:
Some of the shiniest vehicles I’ve
ever detailed had exactly no LSP
applied to them. True story.



•The perception that a given LSP makes the
surface more shiny, glossy, warmer, deeper,
glassy, etc. is, IMO, due to the science of Optics.

-To that point:
My rods and cones are unique to me.
The same holds true for you.

•After all, if:
“Beauty is in the eye of the beholder”.

-Then why can’t the following also
be considered true?:
‘Shine is the results of the beholder’s polishing’.


Bob

 

[acuRAS82]

^^Per Bob, some people like the clarity of freshly polished cars. I typically can’t wait to bend the light differently with an LSP. Doesn’t change the surface quality, but can change the way light reflects and refracts. Nuances, but ones I can typically see under certain times of day or lighting or angles.

 

[FUNX650]

^^Per Bob, some people like the clarity of freshly polished cars. I typically can’t wait to bend the light differently with an LSP. Doesn’t change the surface quality, but can change the way light reflects and refracts. Nuances, but ones I can typically see under certain times of day or lighting or angles.

I believe you misinterpreted my posting.

My posting represented my opinion regarding
the correlation, if any, between LSPs and shine.
Nothing more; nothing less.


Just curious:
When you bend the light with an LSP, does it
add to; lessen; or have no affect on the existing
level of shine? TIA


Bob

 

[alnuman]

Don't know what LSP means but.....

Well I did it - applied a ceramic sealer for the first time. Here are my thoughts:

1) First and foremost, shine. No difference whatsoever between it and wax. So in that sense a waste of time. Now my only decision going forward is do I continue the ceramic sealer route or go back to wax. If someone could say that future ceramic applications would add more layers of protection I may stick with it (since I now know shine is a mute point as suggested in earlier replies).

2) I used a ceramic sealer by NexGen. Anyone know about it/used it? I selected it because they say it has the most Si\whatever of anyone else on the market. It was pretty easy to use.

3) I used Formula 88 to first wash the truck and then as a clay lub. At the end of claying I noticed my clay bar was starting to break apart as if it was disintegrating. Pieces were falling off and it wasn't as pliable as in the beginning. Is this something normal for a claying job or was the Formula 88 breaking it down? The clay I was using was from a poplar brand that everyone is aware of.

4) So now what? I have this ceramically clean shiny truck (just as shiny as wax - sorry I had to say it again), is there anything else to do or do I just wait for it to get dirty and just wash each time until time to re-ceramic/wax it?

By the way - how do you guys clean your microfiber towels? The wife says ain't no way they going in the washer/dryer - whether I detail her car or not!

 

[pilotpip]

LSP is forum short hand for "Last Step Product". Your waxes, sealants, and coatings.

 

[Neatfreak2000]

Don't know what LSP means but.....

Well I did it - applied a ceramic sealer for the first time. Here are my thoughts:

1) First and foremost, shine. No difference whatsoever between it and wax. So in that sense a waste of time. Now my only decision going forward is do I continue the ceramic sealer route or go back to wax. If someone could say that future ceramic applications would add more layers of protection I may stick with it (since I now know shine is a mute point as suggested in earlier replies).

2) I used a ceramic sealer by NexGen. Anyone know about it/used it? I selected it because they say it has the most Si\whatever of anyone else on the market. It was pretty easy to use.

3) I used Formula 88 to first wash the truck and then as a clay lub. At the end of claying I noticed my clay bar was starting to break apart as if it was disintegrating. Pieces were falling off and it wasn't as pliable as in the beginning. Is this something normal for a claying job or was the Formula 88 breaking it down? The clay I was using was from a poplar brand that everyone is aware of.

4) So now what? I have this ceramically clean shiny truck (just as shiny as wax - sorry I had to say it again), is there anything else to do or do I just wait for it to get dirty and just wash each time until time to re-ceramic/wax it?

By the way - how do you guys clean your microfiber towels? The wife says ain't no way they going in the washer/dryer - whether I detail her car or not!

Yep. Just wait for it to get dirty, wash, then as a final step use a high silica content QD or sealer. Easy.

In wash mine in the normal wash. A micro fiber shouldn’t get really dirty from washing the car. The mitt should but if you rinse that out in you ‘clean/soap’ bucket when done it’s fine to go in the wash. Tap cold or warm water, microfiber cleaner and then dry on very low/no heat.

And it’s ‘moot’ point.

 

[acuRAS82]

I believe you misinterpreted my posting.

My posting represented my opinion regarding
the correlation, if any, between LSPs and shine.
Nothing more; nothing less.


Just curious:
When you bend the light with an LSP, does it
add to; lessen; or have no affect on the existing
level of shine? TIA


Bob

Oh sorry, Bob.
Not sure how I could have misinterpreted your post,
for it is so crystal clear
Like the shiny paint after polish
No LSP to be found here

But when I see the bend of light
That covers my paint soon after
Especially in the dawn dusk and night
It fills my heart with laughter

For a paint with 90% shine
After a dedicated correction
Looks good, but somewhat benign...
I’ll take an LSP if I plan on winning the election.


When my LSP bends the light it may or may not impact the shine, but it tends to play with reflections. Thanks for checking in.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

I’d venture to say I’m in the minority of the people on this forum who hardly sees a difference between the looks of different LSPs.

I don’t know if it’s just my eyes or what, but they just all look the same to me. I haven’t ever bothered to try and pick up on the nuances though, because I like to live in my little world of blissful ignorance.


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I'll bet you'd surprise yourself if you saw identical vehicles, side-by-side under consistent lighting all wearing different LSP's. Put those same cars at different corners of the parking lot and look at them individually and they'd probably look pretty much the same.

Unfortunately not often can ya do that in your garage so ya just gotta take your chances aesthetically

When my LSP bends the light it may or may not impact the shine, but it tends to play with reflections. Thanks for checking in.

I get this. It's usually the edges, panel transition areas where ya notice it.

 

[PaulMys]

When my LSP bends the light it may or may not impact the shine.....

I always thought it was the amount of beer I may have had (allegedly) consumed that "bent the light".

 

[FUNX650]

Thanks for checking in.

Sure thing. Not a Prob. Much obliged.
Now...swing three chickens o’er yer head.

[video=YouTube;o-yk0iulQUI]
YouTube[/video]


Bob

 

[acuRAS82]

Sure thing. Not a Prob. Much obliged.
Now...swing three chickens o’er yer head.

[video=YouTube;o-yk0iulQUI]
YouTube[/video]


Bob

[video]https://images.app.goo.gl/T1V5qRcsEjEEF6nU7[/video]

View attachment 69178

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

I believe you misinterpreted my posting.

My posting represented my opinion regarding
the correlation, if any, between LSPs and shine.
Nothing more; nothing less.


Just curious:
When you bend the light with an LSP, does it
add to; lessen; or have no affect on the existing
level of shine? TIA


Bob

I agree that a large percentage of shine comes from paint prep but why come when i speed shine or Ech20 on top of a freshly wash car it looks glossier?

When I add Cosmic it definitely seems shinier. Beadmaker guys rave about the shine/gloss.

What causes this? Not trying to be argumentative just curious as how this is explained.

Thoughts?


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[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

(and I still don't know the difference between "glossy" and "shine")

Gloss is first created by a smooth surface. You can have a shiny car that has a rough or textured surface and there is some level of gloss, but gloss is MAXIMIZED by maximizing the smoothness of the surface.


I see and show this all the time in my classes. All these cars in my September 2018 detailing class have shiny paint. Pretty easy to see under diffused florescent light.

BUSTING AT THE SEAMS! NEW RECORD FOR CARS IN THE GARAGE!

(That was a damn good class. Try to find ANY other car detailing class on Planet Earth where strangers get to train on this many cool cars)



But ALL these cars looked dramatically better AFTER they were all clayed, then polished and then had some type of LSP applied.

Happens at every class. I don't bring in cars that don't need help.


But like mentioned, the end results are determined by the prep work. After that, I would say a quality ceramic coating creates a GLASSY appearance. A quality synthetic sealant or wax creates a glossy appearance. I would give a quality coating the edge over final gloss, clarity, depth and shine as compared to waxes and sealants but the difference is not HUGE, it's more than subtle though.


In the real world, a car with a correctly applied ceramic coating and the washed carefully will look better and the "look" will last longer than a sealant or wax. If a person isn't going to wash the car carefully, the coating will still last longer but it won't "look" good longer.


And one of the best articles I've written about this topic is this one,

How to safely wash a ceramic coated car by Mike Phillips - Traditional Hose & Bucket Approach


It's the TOWEL or MITT that is KEY to keeping your car scratch-free -Mike Phillips

How long anything lasts and how long anything looks good will always come down to the the surface is touched.

Anyone that has read what I have written on this forum for any length of time knows the two topics I talk the most about are,

Abrasive Technology - How you perfect the paint.

Touching the paint - How you take care of the paint after perfecting it. --> Washing drying wiping.


Like the Hokey Pokey, that's what it's all about.



:laughing:

 

[Neatfreak2000]

Gloss is first created by a smooth surface. You can have a shiny car that has a rough or textured surface and there is some level of gloss, but gloss is MAXIMIZED by maximizing the smoothness of the surface.


I see and show this all the time in my classes. All these cars in my September 2018 detailing class have shiny paint. Pretty easy to see under diffused florescent light.

BUSTING AT THE SEAMS! NEW RECORD FOR CARS IN THE GARAGE!

(That was a damn good class. Try to find ANY other car detailing class on Planet Earth where strangers get to train on this many cool cars)



But ALL these cars looked dramatically better AFTER they were all clayed, then polished and then had some type of LSP applied.

Happens at every class. I don't bring in cars that don't need help.


But like mentioned, the end results are determined by the prep work. After that, I would say a quality ceramic coating creates a GLASSY appearance. A quality synthetic sealant or wax creates a glossy appearance. I would give a quality coating the edge over final gloss, clarity, depth and shine as compared to waxes and sealants but the difference is not HUGE, it's more than subtle though.


In the real world, a car with a correctly applied ceramic coating and the washed carefully will look better and the "look" will last longer than a sealant or wax. If a person isn't going to wash the car carefully, the coating will still last longer but it won't "look" good longer.


And one of the best articles I've written about this topic is this one,

How to safely wash a ceramic coated car by Mike Phillips - Traditional Hose & Bucket Approach


It's the TOWEL or MITT that is KEY to keeping your car scratch-free -Mike Phillips

How long anything lasts and how long anything looks good will always come down to the the surface is touched.

Anyone that has read what I have written on this forum for any length of time knows the two topics I talk the most about are,

Abrasive Technology - How you perfect the paint.

Touching the paint - How you take care of the paint after perfecting it. --> Washing drying wiping.


Like the Hokey Pokey, that's what it's all about.



:laughing:

What’s the difference between a sealant and a ceramic?