Customer claims I cracked her windshield...

Big Dave said:
Just to inform, the hot to cold transition, or vice versa, will cause a windscreen to crack, if there is a big enough stone chip already in it. I had a massive stone chip repaired a few months ago, I had to wait few days to get it done, they told me to avoid parking it with sunlight directly on it, and to not use the front demister on high heat as temp difference could cause the chip to expand and crack, which would then require a complete replacement. It was only replaced 3 months before.

So if it already had a chip in it, it was a pre-existing fault waiting to happen.
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This was my thought as well. Could have been as simple as the car sitting out in the sun. I've had windshield chips that turned into cracks where just for fun I'd put a sharpie mark on the glass in the morning and watch it grow. Most often it was when the car was stationary (like parked at work) that it would travel.

I'd probably agree with acuRAS82 - This is likely how he handles everything in life, and your rearview is probably the best place to leave him once this is over. We run into it a lot where there's a weird karma situation in the Automotive world - the customers that are the most difficult/weird about stuff tend to have some of the more difficult/weird issues befall them.
 
I’m not trying to troll, so anyone don’t jump on me.

From a business side, yes you do need insurance for this.

It’s the right thing.

Make this short and simple: Windshield cracked, got it.

I’m sure client is pissed, I would be too.

However, if we can be real here now.

Let’s a say the client decided to wash the car himself.

If the windshield cracked while client washed his own car then....
 
TrustJesus said:
Listen, I don’t call myself a pro detailer but I have more common sense now.
I’m working my way to become a better one, one day I will get there.
AG has been very helpful to me, I’m honestly humbled.
I’ve met some very good people here that have put there pride aside to help me out, good people


What if OP, client had run his car through a car wash and the windshield had cracked?

Would the carwash be then obligated to pay for it? Honest question, not trolling.
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That would depend. Some car washes would probably pay for it to keep a customer happy, others would consider it a preexisting condition and refuse. Whether that's right or wrong depends on the situation.

Here's the thing, in customer service the customer is right even if they are wrong. You bend over backward to keep them happy. If they screw you over, at that point you walk away. At some point, you'll get the short end of the stick. Deal with it and let karma do it's thing.
 
One time I was detailing a van and cleaning the inside of the windshield when it cracked on me. It happened right as my hand hit the bottom of the windshield where it meets the dashboard. Literally in under a second a 9 inch long crack came out of nowhere.

It turns out the owner had a rock leave a good chip in the windshield in the not too long ago past and my hand bumping the windshield was enough to set it off. Thankfully they were a family friend and understood and had their own insurance cover it.

That's all I've got to add. Sorry to hear of your situation.
 
Mike hit it on the head with the VIF. Whether it's a side hustle or a multiple location franchise, that walk around with the customer is key to CYA. Not only are you notating scratches and dents and explaining what you can do and not do with them, but also cracks in windshields, loose bodywork, busted lights, etc.

If you don't have the customer there with you, video a walk around, take photos (I mean who of us don't take a ton of before and after shots for our social media?).
 
DUBL0WS6 said:
That would depend. Some car washes would probably pay for it to keep a customer happy, others would consider it a preexisting condition and refuse. Whether that's right or wrong depends on the situation.

Here's the thing, in customer service the customer is right even if they are wrong. You bend over backward to keep them happy. If they screw you over, at that point you walk away. At some point, you'll get the short end of the stick. Deal with it and let karma do it's thing.
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Every car wash that I've been through in the past, has all kinds of disclosure signs posted before you enter.

If their equipment causes damage, they have insurance that will cover that.
 
@ DUBLOSW6

I like your honest response and your right man. Good answer
 
I will jump into this open topic, I did suffer the expense of replacing my 2018 F150 windshield after a 1-1/2 years and knew what caused the crack.

1 Cracks in windshield are not caused by normal cleaning, period.

2 Agree, with Mike Phillips use of the vehicle inspection form, it is your best basis for protection, insurance or not.

3 Always take a before picture of the car, several to be exact.

4 Afterwards take same photos, if it was not on the car when you left it can be assumed you did not cause the crack/damage.

Now to my experience with cracks:
Any rock chip near the edge off the glass will be highly likely to crack. (mine ran 6-inches on an 8-hour drive)
Once a crack appears, it will run in amazing directions.
Cold water on hot windshield is never a good thing, or hot water on a cold glass (try that one in winter only once)
Cracks can run just doing a temperature change between night and day.
And yes, marking the crack and watching it move is kinda fun in my weird life. Only way to figure out if you are crazy.

I think the car owner is just trying to blame someone and the last person that touched it had to be the cause (likely not).
 
My brother just suffered a cracked windshield to his 2019 Ford F150 at Costco Carwash. They will not take responsibility. He’s 100% sure it occurred during the car wash.

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You can certainly be a professional detailer without insurance.

Insurance does two things; cover the business owner for liability, and legitimises the business for the customer.

If a customer doesn’t care to ensure a business has insurance, and the business owner is willing to accept the risk, there is no reason why services can’t be rendered.

Consider pet insurance. Pets are expensive and incredibly likely to require expensive surgery in their lifetime. Many take the risk and save the money to pay for any eventualities but some take the fear advertising seriously and wouldn’t dream of owning a pet without it.

If, for instance, the pet becomes a social media sensation and forms the majority of your income then insurance becomes an increasingly necessary investment.

When it comes to a business with multiple employees, expensive equipment and a premises, the risk becomes much greater and therefore, less likely the owner will accept the inherent risk.

There’s no need to shame someone who has understood the risk, has the funds to pay for any claims and deems it suitable in their situation to forgo insurance. And it certainly doesn’t make them any less of a professional.
 
Reminds me of an old similar story that happened to me once.

An old girlfriend wanted me to detail her car, the regular wash-wax, vacuum-clean interior, glass, that's it. No paint correction, etc.

Anyway, the vehicle never budged from my garage, thought she knew about the considerable damage on the rear passenger quarter panel. She didn't!

When she came by the garage to pick up the car, and with her new boyfriend in tow, she walked around the car and seen the damage and was shocked to say the least.

Her boyfriend's giving me dirty looks, disbelieving my defense, and I'm trying to assure her that I certainly didn't cause this considerable damage.

She paid me, took the car and left. And no, no tip. I forget what I charged her because it was so long ago, not much money.

I seen her the next day by happenstance. That's when she mentioned that her brother used the car the night before, and he owned up to having an accident with the car. LOL

Bottom line for sure, and a lesson learned. Always do a critical walk around with the owner before beginning any work. Point out any and all damage prior, even the smallest paint chips, or scratch-etc, loose trim, missing trim-badges, etc etc.

I know well some things are not easily seen on a dirty vehicle, but one should look intently.
 
Key here is in the drop off inspection and sign off. Make sure you have a lawyer look over your Terms & Conditions. Of the T's & C's I have spells out glass damage specifically to cover just such a situation. A good set of inspection forms and terms covers both you and the owner. I go over every item with them too thus why I state we need a solid 20 minutes to review things prior to leaving. I have turned away a customer who was in a "rush" and while they didn't return, I'm okay with that. I will NOT rush a drop off or a pick up as they can make or break a business.

Take clear photos of each panel and do a walk around video verbally calling out the condition, etc. I do it with the owner present so they know I'm being real with them on the details. Believe me, they appreciate it and I very much make them aware that I often and regularly find damage or dings that they will not have seen as I'm intimate with the vehicles up close an personal and all that while clearing of finish of dirt and other scratches that could have been concealing the damage. Set the stage that you will likely find something on their car and capture their reaction as it's important.
 
I have seen cracks in windshields get worse due to temperature differentials but that usually happens in the winter when trying to thaw ice or frost. Some people will pour hot water on the windshield and cause a crack or even the car defroster can exaggerate the crack. I have never seen cool water from a hose cause a crack on a summer windshield.
During this pandemic, I have been watching a lot of People's Court and Judge Judy. In every case, the plaintiff has to carry the burden of proof. In your case, there is no way your client can prove that you cracked the windshield and it is highly unlikely that you caused the crack. To protect yourself in the future, you should be taking before and after pictures. The court shows teach you that as well.
 
fivestar_dc said:
Which is true. But when you're only doing 30 cars a year as a side gig, and these are ordinary DD's, insurance really eats into profits. I appreciate everyone's feedback. This man swore profusely on the phone when I had my first conversation about detailing his car two weeks ago, did the same today every time I saw him. Bad-mouthed the previous owner (he just bought these two vehicles from a private party a few days ago). Quite a cantankerous fellow, and I do believe it's very possible he's trying to scam or threaten me into paying for something I did not do and for which he's responsible. I think I'm going to start taking pictures before and after, and possibly implement a checklist.
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There is such a thing as bad business. This guy is definitely it. It will cost you more than his business is worth.
 
WristyManchego said:
You can certainly be a professional detailer without insurance.

Insurance does two things; cover the business owner for liability, and legitimises the business for the customer.

If a customer doesn’t care to ensure a business has insurance, and the business owner is willing to accept the risk, there is no reason why services can’t be rendered.

Consider pet insurance. Pets are expensive and incredibly likely to require expensive surgery in their lifetime. Many take the risk and save the money to pay for any eventualities but some take the fear advertising seriously and wouldn’t dream of owning a pet without it.

If, for instance, the pet becomes a social media sensation and forms the majority of your income then insurance becomes an increasingly necessary investment.

When it comes to a business with multiple employees, expensive equipment and a premises, the risk becomes much greater and therefore, less likely the owner will accept the inherent risk.

There’s no need to shame someone who has understood the risk, has the funds to pay for any claims and deems it suitable in their situation to forgo insurance. And it certainly doesn’t make them any less of a professional.
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I disagree with this statement. If you are a hobby detailer doing work for friends and people you personally know and trust, that's a different situation. If you are charging customers who you don't know, you need protection in the form of insurance. Maybe you only need a $10,000 policy but you need to CYA.
 
DUBL0WS6 said:
I disagree with this statement. If you are a hobby detailer doing work for friends and people you personally know and trust, that's a different situation. If you are charging customers who you don't know, you need protection in the form of insurance. Maybe you only need a $10,000 policy but you need to CYA.
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Have you personally looked into the kind of insurance coverage a detailer can buy in order to be covered?
 
Eldorado2k said:
Have you personally looked into the kind of insurance coverage a detailer can buy in order to be covered?
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No. I own a different type of business and I have to carry high levels of insurance and it's fairly expensive. Some insurance policy premiums are determined by your gross annual income. The less you make, the lower the premium. Some policies are umbrella policies which cover a specified dollar amount. An agent can explain what coverage you'd need. (edited)

My point is this, some of you guys are working on 10K cars, others are working on 40K cars, some are working on more expensive cars. Any damage that you do is your responsibility. IMO, if you can't afford the insurance, then you probably shouldn't be running a professional detailing business.
 
DUBL0WS6 said:
No. I own a different type of business and I have to carry high levels of insurance and it's fairly expensive. Most insurance policy premiums are determined by your gross annual income. The less you make, the lower the premium.

My point is this, some of you guys are working on 10K cars, others are working on 40K cars, some are working on more expensive cars. Any damage that you do is your responsibility. IMO, if you can't afford the insurance, then you probably shouldn't be running a professional detailing business.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s my understanding that there’s little to no real insurance coverage for the average mobile detailer.. The only actual coverage available is for a shop and it solely covers in the case of complete loss of a vehicle i.e. if it were to get stolen or burnt to a crisp.

But as far as a mobile detailer accidentally caused a dent or burnt through clearcoat, there’s no insurance that covers that.. Once again correct me if I’m wrong, but last I checked that was the case.
 
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