Customer claims I cracked her windshield...

Haven't seen the OP chime back in the thread, but then again, it's already 4 pages long... Coming out of forum hibernation, this one grabbed me because I can't begin to count how many times Mike Phillips and others mention these valuable tools at your disposal.

VIF - Initial inspection. When I was in business, I would make an appointment, use Mike's VIF (Vehicle Inspection Form) and go over the entire car, just like the rental car companies do before you rent a car. Using the form I identified the condition of all surfaces and materials, identified defects and prior damage, and then did a rating scale of 1-10 on what could be fixed and what couldn't be fixed, along with items outside my wheel house (cracked trim, windows, body damage etc..)

Next

Before and After Photos. I usually take about 30 or 40 before photos. You better ensure that you photograph everything that catches your eye and this ain't no joke man. I'm dead serious.

After, I do the used car sales man routine, with VIF in hand, I used to walk around the car using my magic wand... (my index finger) and TOUCH every thing I marked on the VIF and showed it to the customer.


All of this takes less than an hour, if you get good at it, you could probably do it in 20 minutes...

That way when your done, there isn't any of this business of you broke this or you broke that. Well, in this case, that wasn't done, so unless you have a waiver or sign like carwashes that state you drive through their tunnel of swirls sand scratches at your own peril, you should just do the customary thing and pony up the windshield.

I can't think of an insurance company that doesn't have glass coverage as an option. If they file a claim (no fault) for the windshield, the fee is usually $100.00 at least that is what mine is. Tell them to file a glass claim and give them $100.00. I just caught a rock in my Honda Fit, I didn't even file a claim, my insurance company has an on-line glass replacement form. Took me 10 minutes and the next day a guy was out, replaced the glass, collected the cash, and that was that.

Hopefully this is a learning lesson... Sadly there are dozens of posts by Mike and others that stress the importance of VIF and before/after photos.

Good luck, now I'm going back to forum hibernation! :)

p.s.

This man swore profusely on the phone when I had my first conversation about detailing his car two weeks ago
Click to expand...

And that wasn't a sign??? I would have passed, especially since this is a part time gig for you. As a part time gig, you have the luxury to cherry pick customers. Anyone who mistreats someone isn't worth doing business with.

A lot of what is written here is not just for the OP, the purpose of a forum is to spread knowledge through experience. Owning and running a business, regardless of part-time or full-time shouldn't make a difference. When money is exchanged for a service, it's a business.
 
LSNAutoDetailing said:
Haven't seen the OP chime back in the thread, but then again, it's already 4 pages long... Coming out of forum hibernation, this one grabbed me because I can't begin to count how many times Mike Phillips and others mention these valuable tools at your disposal.

VIF - Initial inspection. When I was in business, I would make an appointment, use Mike's VIF (Vehicle Inspection Form) and go over the entire car, just like the rental car companies do before you rent a car. Using the form I identified the condition of all surfaces and materials, identified defects and prior damage, and then did a rating scale of 1-10 on what could be fixed and what couldn't be fixed, along with items outside my wheel house (cracked trim, windows, body damage etc..)

Next

Before and After Photos. I usually take about 30 or 40 before photos. You better ensure that you photograph everything that catches your eye and this ain't no joke man. I'm dead serious.

After, I do the used car sales man routine, with VIF in hand, I used to walk around the car using my magic wand... (my index finger) and TOUCH every thing I marked on the VIF and showed it to the customer.


All of this takes less than an hour, if you get good at it, you could probably do it in 20 minutes...

That way when your done, there isn't any of this business of you broke this or you broke that. Well, in this case, that wasn't done, so unless you have a waiver or sign like carwashes that state you drive through their tunnel of swirls sand scratches at your own peril, you should just do the customary thing and pony up the windshield.

I can't think of an insurance company that doesn't have glass coverage as an option. If they file a claim (no fault) for the windshield, the fee is usually $100.00 at least that is what mine is. Tell them to file a glass claim and give them $100.00. I just caught a rock in my Honda Fit, I didn't even file a claim, my insurance company has an on-line glass replacement form. Took me 10 minutes and the next day a guy was out, replaced the glass, collected the cash, and that was that.

Hopefully this is a learning lesson... Sadly there are dozens of posts by Mike and others that stress the importance of VIF and before/after photos.

Good luck, now I'm going back to forum hibernation! :)

p.s.



And that wasn't a sign??? I would have passed, especially since this is a part time gig for you. As a part time gig, you have the luxury to cherry pick customers. Anyone who mistreats someone isn't worth doing business with.

A lot of what is written here is not just for the OP, the purpose of a forum is to spread knowledge through experience. Owning and running a business, regardless of part-time or full-time shouldn't make a difference. When money is exchanged for a service, it's a business.And you should have liability insurance.
Click to expand...
 
fivestar_dc said:
Craziest thing happened today. I detailed two vehicles at customers' home: an SUV and a car. I had a helper with me and the jobs went well. Both vehicles were parked in driveway, and I detailed them without having to move them. For the first four hours, we did the interiors on each vehicle. Then later, we did exterior. Customer was putting floor mats back in, inspecting the SUV, etc. around 3:00 as we were finishing up the exterior on the car. Then, at 3:30 we finished, and I knocked on the door to get him. He came out, took a look at the vehicles, and mentioned a long crack in the windshield from top to bottom. He was irate about it, as he had just purchased the vehicle from a private party the day before. There was a very awkward silence, and then after a bit, I resumed the "after-tour," showing him the much improved headliner, interior, etc. He paid me the full amount plus a $20 tip, and away we went.

Now just a half hour ago, his wife texts me asking "are you going to pay to replace the broken windshield?" I called her and told her that it was highly improbable, if not impossible, for me to have caused the crack. There was a deep rock chip at the top of the windshield about 5mm from the roof. From there, the crack proceeded downward all the way. Furthermore, she told me on the phone that there was no crack when her husband put the floor mats in, which was at 3:00...which was AFTER I was done power washing and only a half hour before I left! Which would have meant that the spider crack would have had to appear in a half hour's time, and I would have had to cause it in the first place. I don't see how in any way, shape, or form I should have to compensate her. Do I feel bad that their windshield is cracked? Yes. But is there any way that I am responsible? I can't see it!

I called her later tonight and we had a cordial conversation. I told her that I'd reach out to my auto detailing friends and see if this had ever happened before, and in turn she was going to talk to her husband after he calms down. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Fam. First thing you always wanna do is take pics of everything before doing anything.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Autogeekonline mobile app
 
I’m part time,word of mouth and mobile. I have general liability that cover operations,premise (my garage or customers property) liability and incidental liability. I pay $70 monthly during the season and in off season I pay less because I’m not really working. I’ve used it once when my power washer line snapped, went crazy and broke a basement window
 
IMO:

Without having active insurance policies,
then the ‘bonds-of-trust’—(that make our
society function)—would surely break down.


Bob
 
DUBL0WS6 said:
I disagree with this statement. If you are a hobby detailer doing work for friends and people you personally know and trust, that's a different situation. If you are charging customers who you don't know, you need protection in the form of insurance. Maybe you only need a $10,000 policy but you need to CYA.
Click to expand...

You certainly don’t need “protection” but there comes a point where it makes financial sense to consider insurance.

Working on an 80k vehicle as a Detailer is an entirely different risk profile to someone driving an 80k vehicle on a track. The latter has a much greater risk of total loss due to the activities performed.

In a lot of cases, especially as a mobile Detailer, the clients home or motor vehicle insurance will have an amount of coverage for most damages. And in a high number of cases, the cost of lodging a claim is far greater than the damage incurred which renders the insurance useless in those circumstances.

Let’s say one of the most common, most expensive risks for a detailer is burning through paint. An 80k vehicle doesn’t immediately become a write-off, the area can be fixed at a reasonable cost.

What disappoints me most about the necessity you’re insisting is how this reflects American “court” culture at large. Personal responsibility and therefore, trust, seems to be missing in a large portion of society.
 
WristyManchego said:
You certainly don’t need “protection” but there comes a point where it makes financial sense to consider insurance.

Working on an 80k vehicle as a Detailer is an entirely different risk profile to someone driving an 80k vehicle on a track. The latter has a much greater risk of total loss due to the activities performed.

In a lot of cases, especially as a mobile Detailer, the clients home or motor vehicle insurance will have an amount of coverage for most damages. And in a high number of cases, the cost of lodging a claim is far greater than the damage incurred which renders the insurance useless in those circumstances.

Let’s say one of the most common, most expensive risks for a detailer is burning through paint. An 80k vehicle doesn’t immediately become a write-off, the area can be fixed at a reasonable cost.

What disappoints me most about the necessity you’re insisting is how this reflects American “court” culture at large. Personal responsibility and therefore, trust, seems to be missing in a large portion of society.
Click to expand...

Very well said, Wristy.

But have no fear........ There will be a pharmaceutical ad for a drug to get you through your vehicle damage depression.

*Side effects may be nausea, headache, heart failure, and rectal bleeding.* :doh:
 
briarpatch said:
One possibility...although far fetched.....could it be that the cold water hitting a hot windshield caused the crack to open up from the rock chip? I'm not even sure such a thing is possible.....just putting it out there.

I had a customer tell me that the sealant I put on their vehicle caused their outside thermometer to malfunction.....I have someone had tell me that I caused one of their tires to develop a slow leak.....I had someone....who has four cats....tell me that there was a scratch on the roof of their car that my 16 lb cat caused.....that cat couldn't leave the ground if it wanted to....the best was when I was told that my vacuuming caused a short under the dash of their car.
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I had a car with a slight crack or chip (been years so I’m not sure which). What I am sure of is when wetting the car as I was about to wash it (Louisiana summer heat), the cold water started the windshield to crack right before my eyes. So I know it’s possible. Just adding to the possibility.
 
WristyManchego said:
What disappoints me most about the necessity you’re insisting is how this reflects American “court” culture at large. Personal responsibility and therefore, trust, seems to be missing in a large portion of society.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is sad but true. People, even supposed close friends can flip on you at the drop of a hat and throw you under the bus to save themselves or even less, to shed any meaningless ounce of blame in front of complete strangers as if it even matters what the heck they think of our situation... Alot of people these days just duck out of situations and and pop out the other side as if nothing ever happened... As long as nobody saw what they did they’re back to talking the talk. Cowards have no loyalty.
 
@Ric
Honestly I feel bad for this member. He’s maybe inexperienced and didn’t think of taking pictures.

Why makes me upset is how the client literally accused him of doing it.


I’ve actually put my detail business on hold for the pandemic.

I don’t want to expose myself or my family.
Far less I don’t want anyone to blame me for getting the virus and blaming the detailer.

However, what gets me is this.

If someone wants there car cleaned and the windshield cracks, how are we at fault.

This is like Mother Nature, you cant stop it?

I can see how the client point of view also tho, so I’m torn between the both.

I would be pissed to say the least.

However knowing that cold water can crack a windshield, I would maybe give him a break.

Maybe, I don’t know hard to say.


Sent from my iPhone using AGOnline
 
TrustJesus said:
@Ric
Honestly I feel bad for this member. He’s maybe inexperienced and didn’t think of taking pictures.

Why makes me upset is how the client literally accused him of doing it.


I’ve actually put my detail business on hold for the pandemic.

I don’t want to expose myself or my family.
Far less I don’t want anyone to blame me for getting the virus and blaming the detailer.

However, what gets me is this.

If someone wants there car cleaned and the windshield cracks, how are we at fault.

This is like Mother Nature, you cant stop it?

I can see how the client point of view also tho, so I’m torn between the both.

I would be pissed to say the least.

However knowing that cold water can crack a windshield, I would maybe give him a break.

Maybe, I don’t know hard to say.


Sent from my iPhone using AGOnline
Click to expand...

This is a long thread.. And honestly I haven’t read the OP. Yes, I could’ve taken a minute to read the OP before replying but I chose to keep it as it was, so I’m honestly not aware of this particular situation..

But as far as being responsible for a windshield? The way I see it you either are or you’re not.. I hope I never have to deal with that situation but I would think that if had any hand in causing the beginning or the spreading of a crack into a larger 1 that I would know when it occurred and I would take responsibility for it, plain and simple.

1 time that comes to mind was when I was working on my friends 28’ boat.. The boat has a large canopy that covers the exposed interior and it’s held up by 2 poles. When I was clearing the interior in order to begin vacuuming/cleaning I gently tossed 1 of the poles onto the lawn and when it hit the grass the tip of the pole broke off and shot like a dart across the yard.. I was able to locate the rubber tip and Crazy Glue it back into the pole, but we all know Crazy Glue doesn’t always hold up as well as we hope, so I made sure to call my buddy up and said “hey I gotta tell you something” I told him what happened and that I was going to replace the pole.

Fortunately it wasn’t a big deal but regardless, just gotta own it at times like that.
 
Also, IMO there’s a big difference in whether you caused the beginning of the crack or you caused a little crack to become larger.. Big difference, and therefore if the situation is that you caused what was already there to become larger then I would feel better about being able to work out a compromise with the owner instead of being completely responsible.

Being good at communicating with people is a valuable skill. Never underestimate the possibilities.
 
Yup, Eldorado

Communication is very underestimated.
I think communication is really needed, even if we disagree with each other.

If I ever say something that offends anyone, PM me and let me know.

I don’t always word every post correctly, might be in a rush or whatever.

If I ever offend anyone I apologize.


Sent from my iPhone using AGOnline
 
WristyManchego said:
You can certainly be a professional detailer without insurance.

Insurance does two things; cover the business owner for liability, and legitimises the business for the customer.

If a customer doesn’t care to ensure a business has insurance, and the business owner is willing to accept the risk, there is no reason why services can’t be rendered.

Consider pet insurance. Pets are expensive and incredibly likely to require expensive surgery in their lifetime. Many take the risk and save the money to pay for any eventualities but some take the fear advertising seriously and wouldn’t dream of owning a pet without it.

If, for instance, the pet becomes a social media sensation and forms the majority of your income then insurance becomes an increasingly necessary investment.

When it comes to a business with multiple employees, expensive equipment and a premises, the risk becomes much greater and therefore, less likely the owner will accept the inherent risk.

There’s no need to shame someone who has understood the risk, has the funds to pay for any claims and deems it suitable in their situation to forgo insurance. And it certainly doesn’t make them any less of a professional.
Click to expand...


In the case of a professional who's being paid to do a job, it's always a good idea to carry some type/amount of liability insurance. What some may be missing is that you include the cost of the insurance into the price you charge. $100 a month is cheap peace of mind.

I can think of a couple scenarios how a person could inadvertently cause damage. As the price of the car increases so does the risk. Guys who do scratch repair probably incur the most risk. I've seen guys with 40 years experience make mistakes. Do you feel lucky enough to want to roll the dice?
 
fivestar_dc said:
Craziest thing happened today. I detailed two vehicles at customers' home: an SUV and a car. I had a helper with me and the jobs went well. Both vehicles were parked in driveway, and I detailed them without having to move them. For the first four hours, we did the interiors on each vehicle. Then later, we did exterior. Customer was putting floor mats back in, inspecting the SUV, etc. around 3:00 as we were finishing up the exterior on the car. Then, at 3:30 we finished, and I knocked on the door to get him. He came out, took a look at the vehicles, and mentioned a long crack in the windshield from top to bottom. He was irate about it, as he had just purchased the vehicle from a private party the day before. There was a very awkward silence, and then after a bit, I resumed the "after-tour," showing him the much improved headliner, interior, etc. He paid me the full amount plus a $20 tip, and away we went.

Now just a half hour ago, his wife texts me asking "are you going to pay to replace the broken windshield?" I called her and told her that it was highly improbable, if not impossible, for me to have caused the crack. There was a deep rock chip at the top of the windshield about 5mm from the roof. From there, the crack proceeded downward all the way. Furthermore, she told me on the phone that there was no crack when her husband put the floor mats in, which was at 3:00...which was AFTER I was done power washing and only a half hour before I left! Which would have meant that the spider crack would have had to appear in a half hour's time, and I would have had to cause it in the first place. I don't see how in any way, shape, or form I should have to compensate her. Do I feel bad that their windshield is cracked? Yes. But is there any way that I am responsible? I can't see it!

I called her later tonight and we had a cordial conversation. I told her that I'd reach out to my auto detailing friends and see if this had ever happened before, and in turn she was going to talk to her husband after he calms down. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Just take it as a lesson learned. I'm not gonna give you a hard time about it. You live and You learn. Just look at insurance for next time. Just remember always take photos before you start anything. That way you are covered. Just this time you gotta pay outta pocket.
a155f62fef48085da06572b091883c46.jpg


Sent from my SM-G986U using Autogeekonline mobile app
 
Eldorado2k said:
My brother just suffered a cracked windshield to his 2019 Ford F150 at Costco Carwash. They will not take responsibility. He’s 100% sure it occurred during the car wash.

6203a79647e4d1566dc5a0e5c40a6e9f.jpg
Click to expand...

Last year I added windshield repair (WSR) to my detailing business. While researching for the best tools and repair methods I learned a lot about the automotive glass industry. It's kind of fascinating.

Did you know that windshield glass repair/replacement is one of the leading reasons for filing an automotive insurance claim in the United States? It's so common that some larger glass manufacture and repair companies have integrated with insurance companies as a third party administrators (TPA) to help process such claims. When you call your insurance provider to submit a glass coverage claim, you'll very likely be speaking directly to a representative working for a company like Service AutoGlass (a subsidiary of Safelite) to process your claim. These TPAs typically will direct you to a repair facility under the umbrella of their vertically integrated corporate hierarchy, thus, enabling the firm to make money off of each step in the process: insurance claim processing, manufacture and wholesale distribution of replacement glass, retail glass installation services.

Cracks, especially around the black edge of the windshield, called the "frit," are becoming increasingly common. This is due to a manufacturing defect, a weak spot, on some windshields that is present due to the manufacturing process when the glass is tempered and the black frit is applied to the surface. If a chip occurs near this weak spot, it will very likely crack to the edge of the glass. A crack can even occur with no impact damage, a stress crack, which can emerge from the weak spot in the edge of the glass. Stress cracks cannot be repaired by conventional WSR methods, according to the latest repair of laminated automotive glass standard (ROLAGS); however, edge cracks that are caused by an impact (chip) can be repaired with special injectors and UV curable resins if the cracks do not intersect more than one edge in the windshield and if the damage meet other ROLAGS safety requirements.

The crack in this picture was definitely caused by impact damage on the frit. You can plainly see the chip near the edge of the glass, with a crack emerging from both sides of the impact damage. It's highly unlikely that the car wash caused this type of damage... but a crack could spread from a pre-existing chip due to a rapid temperature fluctuation from the hot glass being cooled by the water in the car wash. This type of damage is actually repairable by a skilled windshield repair technician with the proper tools and equipment. Many auto insurance policies even include free glass repair coverage so you can get your windshield chips, and even small cracks, repaired before a more costly replacement becomes necessary.

In the case of the OP's scenario, it's possible that their wash process caused a rapid temperature swing in the glass that caused the chip to crack out (you would have noticed it happen as soon as the water was dried off). It's also possible that by 3:00pm, with the car parked in the sun, maybe on slightly uneven ground (causing a slight flex in the chassis), caused enough stress in the glass that the chip spontaneously cracked out as the temperature of the glass continued to rise into late afternoon.

Personally, I would not cover a crack in a windshield occurring from washing a car because it is damage that is spreading due to pre-existing damage in the glass. A windshield chip could crack out literally at any time due to a variety of reasons, even just driving the vehicle over a small curb into a driveway, especially if the chip is near the edge of the glass.

Moral of the story: avoid cracks by getting your windshield chips repaired ASAP!
 
One more simple thing to add:

Most all of us have cell phones and most all cell phones record video and photos. As an amateur, I record before and after videos and photos of cars that I detail.

This works two fold, in that I can see what kind of work has been accomplished, and denotes what visible damage may already be on the vehicle. However some things like scratches and even small dents can be hidden by the amount of dirt on the car/truck.

The nice customers point out scratches and have realistic expectations of what can be removed or lightened.

Also, you can do a walk around with each client pre and post detail.

Sorry for your situation.
 
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