Headlight Restoration-new UV sealant idea

[Part-timer]

Good job man, clouds always mess up headlights when taking pictures.

Has anyone here done any 7 series BMW's? I did one yesterday and when i finished, it looked like it has a weird haze. It didn't look crystal clear as always. I did 400/800/1000/1500/2000 then cleared. The surface looked great, no scratched, no nicks. but I cleared one and noticed it was kinda hazzy, so i went ahead and polished up the other headlight and applied the clear still looked somewhat hazzy. I couldn't do anything to get this out. What is this from and can it be fixed? The guy was pretty cool about it because i did his other x5 that turned out really good, and he was sitting there talking to me the whole time i did the 745i so he knows it wasn't anything i did wrong.

Thanks guys.

Mitsuman95......it's interesting that you mention the BMW being cloudy/hazy when you finished. I DID have the exact same thing happen to me with a BMW. I don't remember if it was a 7 or 5 series but, it was the same thing. I did my normal procedure and it came out all foggy looking. When I first started out doing headlights, I mistakedly agreed to do a set with a crack in one. Water from wet sanding ended up inside the lens and then later fogged up and looked like crap. The BMW however didn't have any cracks but had a very similar appearance. I'd be interested in finding an explanation/solution as well.......anyone?

 

[mitsuman95]

A very few headlights, unfortunately, seem to haze over on the inside. Some deteriorate WITHIN THE PLASTIC (I rented a Pontiac like that, both lenses all full of tiny cracks throughout) and I'd guess if that's the case with this BMW, it's off to the BMW dealer. The owner will have to bring lots of money.

I agree with you, although the issue here is that the lights did not have this haze before i started. there was some pitting and slight yellowing but they were still clear in the sense that they didn't have this haze.

 

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

I did a pair of RV lights that were yellow...and when i say yellow...i mean...yellow..like this guy >>:hungry: lol...i did the same procedure and the became very clean and no scratches etc...but you couldn't SEE THROUGH them like you normally could, know what i mean?

For this pair though, i honestly just think it was how the plastic was DESIGNED...as far as how it was cut...it wasn't just a straight smooth plastic...it actually had sort of small 'designs' in it so to speak..hard to explain but if you've seen lights like this you'll know what i mean. They were as good as they were gonna get and i dont know if it was because there was fog on the INSIDE or not...but personally i think it was just due to the actual design of the light itself that didn't allow it to be totally transparent.

 

[Part-timer]

I agree with you, although the issue here is that the lights did not have this haze before i started. there was some pitting and slight yellowing but they were still clear in the sense that they didn't have this haze.

Mitsman95......yes, it was the same thing with mine. They almost looked worse when I got done than before I started. I never would have guessed that they would have looked bad when I was done. From the looks of them before I started, I felt they would look brand new when I was done. Personally, I feel like they must be a different mix of composite that BMW uses. That would be my best guess.

It's a horrible feeling when you finish a set of lights and you are not satisfied with the results!!:nomore:

 

[Rei86]

I agree with you, although the issue here is that the lights did not have this haze before i started. there was some pitting and slight yellowing but they were still clear in the sense that they didn't have this haze.

My car does this, the only way to fix it is to bake the lights and open it up. Wet sand the interior and freshen up the bubbled paint etc etc than seal it up again. But I wouldn't wanna do something like that with a customers headlight encase you over-bake it or the damn thing just warps on you just because it wants too.

 

[Part-timer]

I did a pair of RV lights that were yellow...and when i say yellow...i mean...yellow..like this guy >>:hungry: lol...i did the same procedure and the became very clean and no scratches etc...but you couldn't SEE THROUGH them like you normally could, know what i mean?

For this pair though, i honestly just think it was how the plastic was DESIGNED...as far as how it was cut...it wasn't just a straight smooth plastic...it actually had sort of small 'designs' in it so to speak..hard to explain but if you've seen lights like this you'll know what i mean. They were as good as they were gonna get and i dont know if it was because there was fog on the INSIDE or not...but personally i think it was just due to the actual design of the light itself that didn't allow it to be totally transparent.

Wills.....Yes, I do know what type you are talking about. This BMW that I did was different though. I'm not sure if the cloudiness was hidden behind the outer layer, or if a different composition type plastic required a method of sanding other than mine..? I have had some haze show up on a Chevy Silverado once also but, 99% of the time my lights come out great.

 

[mitsuman95]

I did a pair of RV lights that were yellow...and when i say yellow...i mean...yellow..like this guy >>:hungry: lol...i did the same procedure and the became very clean and no scratches etc...but you couldn't SEE THROUGH them like you normally could, know what i mean?

For this pair though, i honestly just think it was how the plastic was DESIGNED...as far as how it was cut...it wasn't just a straight smooth plastic...it actually had sort of small 'designs' in it so to speak..hard to explain but if you've seen lights like this you'll know what i mean. They were as good as they were gonna get and i dont know if it was because there was fog on the INSIDE or not...but personally i think it was just due to the actual design of the light itself that didn't allow it to be totally transparent.

I've had a pair like that. You couldn't even see the bulb in the headlight. I dont know how the guy was drivin around at night. I attached a picture.

Mitsman95......yes, it was the same thing with mine. They almost looked worse when I got done than before I started. I never would have guessed that they would have looked bad when I was done. From the looks of them before I started, I felt they would look brand new when I was done. Personally, I feel like they must be a different mix of composite that BMW uses. That would be my best guess.

It's a horrible feeling when you finish a set of lights and you are not satisfied with the results!!:nomore:

I agree. I was very happy with the job until i realized the haze was not coming off. Quite frustrating.

My car does this, the only way to fix it is to bake the lights and open it up. Wet sand the interior and freshen up the bubbled paint etc etc than seal it up again. But I wouldn't wanna do something like that with a customers headlight encase you over-bake it or the damn thing just warps on you just because it wants too.

It wasn't haze on the inside though. I think its just the plastic that BMW used for that headlight. it doesn't react well to sanding. I didn't see any scratches what so ever after clearing, just a weird hazzyness.

Wills.....Yes, I do know what type you are talking about. This BMW that I did was different though. I'm not sure if the cloudiness was hidden behind the outer layer, or if a different composition type plastic required a method of sanding other than mine..? I have had some haze show up on a Chevy Silverado once also but, 99% of the time my lights come out great.

It has to be made out of a different material. I can't figure out why else the it would happen. I've done quite a few headlights, and this was the first time this has happened. 7 series beamers are on my no no list now. unless the headlight only requires polishing.

 

[pixelmonkey]

two vehicles completed over the weekend with the 50/50 mix.

05 Toyota Prius
- sanded with 600, 1000, 1500 & 2000
- 50/50 varnish & mineral spirits

92 Subaru Legacy Outback
- used the same sanding paper and mix as the prius.

will upload the photos tonight. too darn hot over the weekend. I think the mix dried on the lights within 20 minutes. 107 degrees Saturday 105 Sunday

chris<pixelmonkey>

 

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

two vehicles completed over the weekend with the 50/50 mix.

05 Toyota Prius
- sanded with 600, 1000, 1500 & 2000
- 50/50 varnish & mineral spirits

92 Subaru Legacy Outback
- used the same sanding paper and mix as the prius.

will upload the photos tonight. too darn hot over the weekend. I think the mix dried on the lights within 20 minutes. 107 degrees Saturday 105 Sunday

chris<pixelmonkey>

lol pretty warm, where are you at?

 

[pixelmonkey]

lol pretty warm, where are you at?

oklahoma city

and here is the prius

chris<pixelmonkey>

 

[reggie1967]

here a pix of a clk mercedes benz i done started with 500,800,1000,1500, wetsand foam 3"inch disc compound with dvelup and used one step dvelup clear coat. they do have a 2step mix

 

[Part-timer]

It has to be made out of a different material. I can't figure out why else the it would happen. I've done quite a few headlights, and this was the first time this has happened. 7 series beamers are on my no no list now. unless the headlight only requires polishing.[/QUOTE]

I agree Mitsuman95......I also am staying away from ALL BMW's. I love the cars that are really messed up badly.......they come out looking amazing and the owners are very impressed. I did one headlight for a co-worker the other day...which has led to doing a set of headlights for their parent's car and now also a full detail job....yippie!!
Im the MAN

 

[mitsuman95]

I agree Mitsuman95......I also am staying away from ALL BMW's. I love the cars that are really messed up badly.......they come out looking amazing and the owners are very impressed. I did one headlight for a co-worker the other day...which has led to doing a set of headlights for their parent's car and now also a full detail job....yippie!!
Im the MAN

Well the guy called me back wanting me to go see if there was anything i could do to fix the issue. Anybody have any ideas? I have a couple days to think. I'm thinking of removing the clear and hitting up with 105/205/plastic x. other than that i cant think of anything besides a refund.

Btw this is the problem for those that haven't read.

I did a BMW 7 series the other day. Looked OK to start, but full of lots of chips and some yellowing. I was very happy with the surface once I was done sanding then proceeded with the clear as usual, and the surface looked great, but there was some weird haze.

 

[Part-timer]

Mitsuman95........I don't know if you hand sanded or used a machine but...maybe try to hand wet sand with 800, 1000, 1500 and 3000....and just see if maybe it will clear up? That is what I was going to try on the one I had if there was a complaint. I've listened to some of the posts in here and started a new procedure. I used to use a machine the whole way. Now I use the machine for the initial removal of clear(or a razor blade if its real hard coat, then machine), then hand wet sand with the same grit used with machine to remove any swirls. Then work my way up to 1500. After that I go back to machine and 3000 trizact foam pad, then clean and spar. I'm anxious to see what other's recommend too.

 

[pixelmonkey]

Well the guy called me back wanting me to go see if there was anything i could do to fix the issue. Anybody have any ideas? I have a couple days to think. I'm thinking of removing the clear and hitting up with 105/205/plastic x. other than that i cant think of anything besides a refund.

Btw this is the problem for those that haven't read.

I did a BMW 7 series the other day. Looked OK to start, but full of lots of chips and some yellowing. I was very happy with the surface once I was done sanding then proceeded with the clear as usual, and the surface looked great, but there was some weird haze.

this is where you customer service should attempt to match that of autogeeks.

one of two options.
option 1
have the customer bring the car back after scheduling with a body shop to spray the lamps with clear coat. remove, sand and have the shop coat the lights and then install them when dried.

option 2
have the customer bring the car back after having opti coat delivered from autogeek. sand, polish and coat the lamps. after coated, review the end result and have a photo comparison of the before and after for the customer to see.

If neither of the two options correct the issue to you and the customers satisfaction, bite the bullet and order new lamps. your customer will be happy, and at the same time the word of mouth that you were willing to foot the bill for an unexpected result will speak volumes for your willingness to satisfy a customer, yourself and the pride and honor of your business.

those are my thoughts.
chris<pixelmonkey>

 

[mr.fusion]

Buying the customer new lamps would be insane $$$$. Unless there is some sort of major negligence, a HL repair guy can't be expected to do that. I don't think that's the case here at all.

Aside from failing to remove all the damaged surface, or skipping vital steps in the process... there isn't much you can do to "de-clear" or mess up a headlight, in my experience. Spar will normally mask any cloudiness from skipping steps, so I expect that this one actually has some fog inside the light.

Some vehicles have issues that are much more apparent once the outside of the lens is restored. It can be a film or dirt on the inside. The chrome reflector can be in poor condition. Also, some lights can be a little yellowed or dull all the way through the plastic, not just on the surface. Toyota Rav4 are terrible like that. I often take a pass on those, unless they are terrible. And even then, I know to tell them before that they won't come out crystal clear as normal. I've also seen quite a few Cadillacs that are dirty inside or have a film on the inside of the lens.

My advice would be offer to refund or re-do the job, explaining that it's possible the issue is actually inside the light and therefore not related to your refinishing the outside of the lens. If you re-do it, take a couple extra sanding steps and be extra thorough with each step, including compounding and polishing. Assuming the heavy damage is all gone (would probably see scratch marks if not) go at it with 1000-1500-2000-3000 and 105/205 (or something close to that) taking time with each step. If the lens still has any fog or blur to it... it's not on the outside and it's not the responsibility of the headlight repair guy. If it looks good and issue is fixed, you could etch it with 3000 and coat with spar, or leave it as is. I did a 3 series for a friend a couple years ago... polish only, no coating... and it stayed clear for over a year until he sold it.

 

[Part-timer]

Buying the customer new lamps would be insane $$$$. Unless there is some sort of major negligence, a HL repair guy can't be expected to do that. I don't think that's the case here at all.

Aside from failing to remove all the damaged surface, or skipping vital steps in the process... there isn't much you can do to "de-clear" or mess up a headlight, in my experience. Spar will normally mask any cloudiness from skipping steps, so I expect that this one actually has some fog inside the light.

Some vehicles have issues that are much more apparent once the outside of the lens is restored. It can be a film or dirt on the inside. The chrome reflector can be in poor condition. Also, some lights can be a little yellowed or dull all the way through the plastic, not just on the surface. Toyota Rav4 are terrible like that. I often take a pass on those, unless they are terrible. And even then, I know to tell them before that they won't come out crystal clear as normal. I've also seen quite a few Cadillacs that are dirty inside or have a film on the inside of the lens.

My advice would be offer to refund or re-do the job, explaining that it's possible the issue is actually inside the light and therefore not related to your refinishing the outside of the lens. If you re-do it, take a couple extra sanding steps and be extra thorough with each step, including compounding and polishing. Assuming the heavy damage is all gone (would probably see scratch marks if not) go at it with 1000-1500-2000-3000 and 105/205 (or something close to that) taking time with each step. If the lens still has any fog or blur to it... it's not on the outside and it's not the responsibility of the headlight repair guy. If it looks good and issue is fixed, you could etch it with 3000 and coat with spar, or leave it as is. I did a 3 series for a friend a couple years ago... polish only, no coating... and it stayed clear for over a year until he sold it.

I agree with all of this. Buying someone new factory BMW headlamps is not right. Offering to re-do them for free and spending extra time on sanding is also what I would do. Some lights are just flawed and only get...so good. I have a BMW that came out like this too. I might be in the position to get it back this weekend myself to see if I can make it any better. Good luck to both of us!!! rops:

 

[Part-timer]

Well the guy called me back wanting me to go see if there was anything i could do to fix the issue. Anybody have any ideas? I have a couple days to think. I'm thinking of removing the clear and hitting up with 105/205/plastic x. other than that i cant think of anything besides a refund.

Btw this is the problem for those that haven't read.

I did a BMW 7 series the other day. Looked OK to start, but full of lots of chips and some yellowing. I was very happy with the surface once I was done sanding then proceeded with the clear as usual, and the surface looked great, but there was some weird haze.

I was hoping that others would read this and contribute some ideas as to how to get rid of the haze. Did you redo the lights yet? If so, how did they come out and what process/products did you use? I am curious because I have one of these too.
Thanks!

 

[mitsuman95]

I agree with all of this. Buying someone new factory BMW headlamps is not right. Offering to re-do them for free and spending extra time on sanding is also what I would do. Some lights are just flawed and only get...so good. I have a BMW that came out like this too. I might be in the position to get it back this weekend myself to see if I can make it any better. Good luck to both of us!!! rops:

Thanks! and yes I think replacing the lights is a bit overboard. If the customer wasn't happy with the lights as they were before, then nothing has changed if they are unhappy with them now. I think a reasonable solution would be to give it another shot and if not, then a refund is in order.

I was hoping that others would read this and contribute some ideas as to how to get rid of the haze. Did you redo the lights yet? If so, how did they come out and what process/products did you use? I am curious because I have one of these too.
Thanks!

I have not yet, we had to re-schedule for tomorrow. Will keep you guys posted and will take pictures.

 

[dan_s2k]

is it possible to use paint and varnish thinner at place of mineral spirits ??