What am I doing wrong :( Holograms after using a rotary buffer
- Thread starter Chatelaine
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Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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Re: What am I doing wrong 
Holograms
Looks great!
Just to recap for others following in your shoes...
You started out using ONLY a rotary buffer...
You were having problems with holograms and asked for help and suggestions.
Next, you obtained what looks like the new PC 7424XP Dual Action Polisher and tried again starting with the rotary buffer but finishing with the dual action polisher and now you're getting the results you were looking for?
It's possible to get 100% swirl free results using only a rotary buffer but it's not always easy and sometimes it doesn't matter how great the products are, the pads or the person, sometimes it's about the paint. Some paints are not as easily polished as others and you never really know until you start doing some testing.
DA style polishers, after using a rotary buffer to do the majority of the work step, and here's the key word... insures a swirl free finish.
Nice work and thank you for the follow-up.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
HologramsLooks great!
Just to recap for others following in your shoes...
You started out using ONLY a rotary buffer...
You were having problems with holograms and asked for help and suggestions.
Next, you obtained what looks like the new PC 7424XP Dual Action Polisher and tried again starting with the rotary buffer but finishing with the dual action polisher and now you're getting the results you were looking for?
This is what I did. SIP at 1700rpm on the Makita,
106FA 5-6, 85rd 5-6, both with PC starting with moderate pressure then lightening up
It's possible to get 100% swirl free results using only a rotary buffer but it's not always easy and sometimes it doesn't matter how great the products are, the pads or the person, sometimes it's about the paint. Some paints are not as easily polished as others and you never really know until you start doing some testing.
DA style polishers, after using a rotary buffer to do the majority of the work step, and here's the key word... insures a swirl free finish.
Nice work and thank you for the follow-up.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Chatelaine
New member
- Aug 11, 2009
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- Thread starter
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Re: What am I doing wrong Holograms
Yes I have one, this was taken only after the SIP treatment with the makitta. I didn't take a close up after the 106 and 85, but I guess I can as the car is here still
Yes you are exactly right. After you told me the DA is what insures holograms and swirl free finishes, I ordered the huge kit outlined from you Lexus detail thread.
I noticed very quickly the DA wouldn't correct as well as the Makitta so I used both
So far I am very happy with the results and love applying the Souveran with the black/blue finishing pads.
The only problem is the orange CCS pad. Maybe it's our climate up here being so dry, but I found that it dusted so terribly bad with both the SIP and Advanced Swirl Remover, that I switched to the white CCS and my results improved DRAMATICALLY. No dust, no haze, great correction... very happy.
HologramsPretty nice, how long did it take to make the black one ?
Did you check at halogen lamp the scratches ?
Yes I have one, this was taken only after the SIP treatment with the makitta. I didn't take a close up after the 106 and 85, but I guess I can as the car is here still
Yes you are exactly right. After you told me the DA is what insures holograms and swirl free finishes, I ordered the huge kit outlined from you Lexus detail thread.
I noticed very quickly the DA wouldn't correct as well as the Makitta so I used both
So far I am very happy with the results and love applying the Souveran with the black/blue finishing pads.
The only problem is the orange CCS pad. Maybe it's our climate up here being so dry, but I found that it dusted so terribly bad with both the SIP and Advanced Swirl Remover, that I switched to the white CCS and my results improved DRAMATICALLY. No dust, no haze, great correction... very happy.
TheGLL
New member
- Aug 26, 2009
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Re: What am I doing wrong Holograms
I don't want to hijack the thread but I have a question.
I also bought Menzerna products with a PC7424XP and I would like to know if my "recipe" is good :
1- Menzerna PO91E with orange or white CCS 6.5" pads, speed 5-6.
2- Menzerna PO85U with grey CCS 6.5" pads, speed 4-5.
3- Meguiars Canurba wax applied by hand.
Eventually I want to buy smaller pad.
I also bought a Poorboys EX Sealant with Carnauba, but I didn't try it yet.
Remember that I'm doing that for fun and I'm still a newbie.
Feel free to give me tips or comments.
Thanks!
HologramsI don't want to hijack the thread but I have a question.
I also bought Menzerna products with a PC7424XP and I would like to know if my "recipe" is good :
1- Menzerna PO91E with orange or white CCS 6.5" pads, speed 5-6.
2- Menzerna PO85U with grey CCS 6.5" pads, speed 4-5.
3- Meguiars Canurba wax applied by hand.
Eventually I want to buy smaller pad.
I also bought a Poorboys EX Sealant with Carnauba, but I didn't try it yet.
Remember that I'm doing that for fun and I'm still a newbie.
Feel free to give me tips or comments.
Thanks!
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
Re: What am I doing wrong Holograms
It's actually best to start your own dedicated thread as it usually helps you get better answers and plus the thread is all about your project.
Here's the nutshell answer, the 91E is for removing shallow scratches and sanding marks, so you really won't know how well it will tackle your project till you do a test spot and then inspect the results.
DA style polishers are very technique sensitive, if you haven't read through this maybe give it a read through.
This is pretty in-depth, it covers just about every tip and technique I could think of, at least at the time I wrote it...
Tips and Techniques for using the PC 7424XP Dual Action Polisher to remove Below Surface Defects
Start off by doing a test spot like shown in this thread with the Flex 3401, there's two videos in that thread that show doing the test spot and then the results from the test spot.
1957 Chevrolet Belair Extreme Makeover - Flex 3401 & Wolfgang Smackdown!
Point is to make sure your products and technique can make one small area look GREAT before going over the entire car.
:buffing:
HologramsIt's actually best to start your own dedicated thread as it usually helps you get better answers and plus the thread is all about your project.
Here's the nutshell answer, the 91E is for removing shallow scratches and sanding marks, so you really won't know how well it will tackle your project till you do a test spot and then inspect the results.
DA style polishers are very technique sensitive, if you haven't read through this maybe give it a read through.
This is pretty in-depth, it covers just about every tip and technique I could think of, at least at the time I wrote it...
Tips and Techniques for using the PC 7424XP Dual Action Polisher to remove Below Surface Defects
Start off by doing a test spot like shown in this thread with the Flex 3401, there's two videos in that thread that show doing the test spot and then the results from the test spot.
1957 Chevrolet Belair Extreme Makeover - Flex 3401 & Wolfgang Smackdown!
Point is to make sure your products and technique can make one small area look GREAT before going over the entire car.
:buffing:
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
Re: What am I doing wrong Holograms
***Bump***
Need this thread for this thread,
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ty/20942-product-do-i-need-remove-hazing.html
Holograms***Bump***
Need this thread for this thread,
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ty/20942-product-do-i-need-remove-hazing.html
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
Re: What am I doing wrong Holograms
***Bump***
Need a clean link...
Holograms***Bump***
Need a clean link...
WRAPT C5Z06
New member
- Nov 12, 2009
- 12,615
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Re: What am I doing wrong Holograms
I know it's normal, but still shocks me!
HologramsI didn't realize a rotary could leave behind this kind of marring!!!!Yes I have one, this was taken only after the SIP treatment with the makitta. I didn't take a close up after the 106 and 85, but I guess I can as the car is here still
I know it's normal, but still shocks me!
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
Re: What am I doing wrong Holograms
When I need a swirled out finish for demonstration purposes... I use a rotary buffer with a wool cutting compound and a very abrasive compound to instill swirls.
HologramsI didn't realize a rotary could leave behind this kind of marring!!!!
I know it's normal, but still shocks me!
When I need a swirled out finish for demonstration purposes... I use a rotary buffer with a wool cutting compound and a very abrasive compound to instill swirls.
richy
New member
- Mar 27, 2007
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Only if you're trying to. If you're good with a rotary, you'd be amazed at how well you can finish down with wool and a medium polish. That of course makes the ensuing steps a breeze and your finish impeccable.
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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Correct.
And I very clearly stated this,
:laughing:
richy
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- Mar 27, 2007
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Mike..my comment was not meant as a shot at you. My point was if one is good with a rotary, they can finish off remarkably well with wool even. Obviously not perfectly but there are significant differences between how some people can finish with a rotary vs others. And yes, there are other variables too...that's a given.
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
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Richy,
I didn't take it as a shot, in fact I recognized you picked up on what I wrote previously.
I'm sure some might not understand so I'll explain.
Sometimes, in order to test a product or demonstrate a product you need defects to remove.
It's completely plausible that in this industry, in my immediate area, there is nothing with swirls in it, at least not on a dark color, of something cool, that can be used to demonstrate on.
So, we do the unthinkable to some, and that's we purposefully put swirls, or in some cases, wet-sand paint.
Now we have some defects to remove.
The average person would never need to do this so it might not make sense to them. One thing for sure, it's easier to put swirls and scratches into paint, and faster too than to remove them.
:laughing:
I've finished out with wool pads with M105 using a rotary buffer, stripped the paint and then inspected with a Swirl Finder Light and not seen any swirls at all. I've also seen other guys do this as well as chemists.
I think much of this is attributed to the SMAT
Like my friend Joe aka Superior Shine wrote a few years ago, and I'm paraphrasing...
"It use to be it took a lot of skill to get really nice finish using a rotary buffer, now just about anyone can turn out a great looking finish"
Or something like that...
His point was, pad technology and abrasive technology has come a long way in the last few years and it takes less experience and less skill to get great results with a rotary buffer than it used to.
guccigucci
New member
- Nov 24, 2010
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Pulling this thread out again, i am a great noob at using my makita, had a horrible experience with it, so the best conclusion of what i have spent my last hr reading this thread is:
CUT POLISH: with Makita either wool if the paint has heavy oxidation
or polish with M105 or equal level products with orange cutting pad on the makita
Fine Polish: with M205 using white pad using a DAAAAAAA polisher like Porter Cables
Finish Polish: with products like PO85rd from Menzerna using white or gray pad with DAAAA polisher (PC)
When its all set and done, IPA WIPEDOWN (maybe Mike will not do this process)
Inspect for true paint correction
LSP (Whichever wax or sealant you want)
Get a glass of your favourite wine, seat back and enjoy your hardwork while taking some pictures to show off here.
CUT POLISH: with Makita either wool if the paint has heavy oxidation
or polish with M105 or equal level products with orange cutting pad on the makita
Fine Polish: with M205 using white pad using a DAAAAAAA polisher like Porter Cables
Finish Polish: with products like PO85rd from Menzerna using white or gray pad with DAAAA polisher (PC)
When its all set and done, IPA WIPEDOWN (maybe Mike will not do this process)
Inspect for true paint correction
LSP (Whichever wax or sealant you want)
Get a glass of your favourite wine, seat back and enjoy your hardwork while taking some pictures to show off here.
Re: What am I doing wrong Holograms
So do holograms only appear after you compound with a rotary buffer using aggressive pads?
If I use my rotary to do the correction work and follow with the 3401 DA to remove the holograms.... after the DA step is done and the holograms are gone, can you use a finishing pad with a glaze on a rotary to jewel the paint or will that put the holograms back into the paint again?
HologramsMike Thanks for the advice.Trying to create a 100% swirl free finish on a clear coated black vehicle using ONLY a direct-drive rotary buffer is hard to do.
Sometimes it has nothing to do with how GREAT you are at using a rotary buffer, sometimes it has to do with the paint itself, (something out of your control), as some paints are easy to polish swirl free while others are impossible.
This is another reason the dual action polishers have become so popular as they will insure a swirl-free finish when used after a rotary buffer.
Switching from a rotary buffer to a dual action polisher is switching from a direct drive machine that is rotating a pad in a circle to a machine that has a clutch and is oscillating the pad, which is making circles inside of a larger circle.
I alway do a test spot to one small area of the vehicle and make sure I can make one small area look perfect or swirl-free with my products and process of choice before going over the entire vehicle as going over the entire vehicle only to find out your products and process of choice isn't working can be kind of depressing.
Also, you need to finish with a finishing foam pad and a light finishing polisher for the last machine polishing steps, this is in essence what jeweling is.
Jeweling is a new term on the Internet for what guys with rotary buffers have always done, we just never gave it name except the finishing step, or the last finishing step, or the last machine finishing step with a rotary buffer etc.
Besides all of the above, it's vital that everything be surgically clean including cleaning your pads often, a pad washer works best for this but a pad cleaning brush can be used also.
So do holograms only appear after you compound with a rotary buffer using aggressive pads?
If I use my rotary to do the correction work and follow with the 3401 DA to remove the holograms.... after the DA step is done and the holograms are gone, can you use a finishing pad with a glaze on a rotary to jewel the paint or will that put the holograms back into the paint again?
93fox
New member
- Dec 25, 2010
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I have not gotten holograms with my makita. What i find that works best for me is work with a slow arm speed and move side to side and up and down. PO85RD has never left holograms for me. I use the gray finishing pad with po85rd and it has never left holograms. I have read and heard that using an even finer pad like the blue one with po85rd is also really good for finishing. From what ive seen in my personal experience. My DA has never left a nice finish as nice as my makita has.
Mirror Detailing
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- Apr 26, 2009
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Have to agree with others that said its possible to finish down. Hell I do heavy correction and finish down most paints with a Orange Uber Buffing Pad on my Dewalt with SIP. Simple 1400-1800-1200 working pattern.
Which pads are you talking about? Lake country hydro tech? Meguiars? Rules? Sorry I can't find the pads your talking about