Bad Boy Has Arrived (AKA GRIOTS ROP)

mavven77

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My package arrived at 1:00 PM EST. I was just able to open it up and take some pictures. Keep in mind I have never owned or operated a DA polisher, so I have a few questions for the more experienced veterans. Going to be used on a brand new 2009 Honda Accord, Bold Beige Metallic. From what I can see paint appears to be in excellent condition...

In order from the pictures below is what I plan on doing. Clay, TSW, Glaze, Sealant, Wax. I also have a bottle of the P21 Paint Cleaner (Many have said I do not need it right now) and I also have 2 bottles of XMT QD which I used after my last wash and I was impressed with it. That is all I have done with this car so far, wash/QD.

Ok so now for the advice.

TSW... Which pad? and what speed 5-6?
Glaze... Which pad? and what speed 3-4?
Sealant... Which pad? and what speed 3-4?
Wax... Red pad? 3-4 speed?
And after all this, should I even bother applying the XMT QD?

Please only suggest from the pads that are pictured, for these are the only pads I purchased. From a previous post of mine, some had suggested I should have bought more white pads, but this is what I'm working with...

I did not purchase any pad lubricant that I see people use prior to applying product to pad, is this going to be a problem?

And I also do not have any pad cleaners, what should I use from home or buy from local store?

I can't wait to here suggestions, thanks in advance.

DSC00558.jpg


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My package arrived at 1:00 PM EST. I was just able to open it up and take some pictures. Keep in mind I have never owned or operated a DA polisher, so I have a few questions for the more experienced veterans. Going to be used on a brand new 2009 Honda Accord, Bold Beige Metallic. From what I can see paint appears to be in excellent condition...

In order from the pictures below is what I plan on doing. Clay, TSR, Glaze, Sealant, Wax. I also have a bottle of the P21 Paint Cleaner (Many have said I do not need it right now) and I also have 2 bottles of XMT QD which I used after my last wash and I was impressed with it. That is all I have done with this car so far, wash/QD.

Ok so now for the advice.

TSR... Which pad? and what speed 5-6?
Glaze... Which pad? and what speed 3-4?
Sealant... Which pad? and what speed 3-4?
Wax... Red pad? 3-4 speed?
And after all this, should I even bother applying the XMT QD?

Please only suggest from the pads that are pictured, for these are the only pads I purchased. From a previous post of mine, some had suggested I should have bought more white pads, but this is what I'm working with...

I did not purchase any pad lubricant that I see people use prior to applying product to pad, is this going to be a problem?

And I also do not have any pad cleaners, what should I use from home or buy from local store?

I can't wait to here suggestions, thanks in advance.



!st clay the paint.
TSR-use a white pad and if that doesn't remove all the swrils after a couple of passes move up to the orange pad. Use speed 6 if you can handle the vibration.
FG is a finishing polish, use the blue pad and if that doesn't finish down, use the white and then finish down again with the blue. Use speed 5 or 6.
I perfer to apply waxes by hand, but you can use the red pad. Just press the max wax on the sides to release the wax from the container and butter your pad.
If your going to use the sealant.. apply before the wax. Do not put sealant over wax.
You don't need a pad lub.
Go to Walmart and get some Dawn Power Dissolver to clean your pads.
Sorry have to get to dinner, so ask more questions as needed. Good Luck. BTW Honda's have soft paint.:buffing:
 
Congrats Mavven I would go with

orange/white with Swirl Remover 5 prime pad with qd
black /glaze 4
blue /sealant 3
red /wax3

reallistically you don't need to use the buffer for the sealant you will waste more thenif you just put it in by hand and remember most sealants need to cure for 24 hrs before being topped w/wax . Same goes for the wax Max wax is a soft wax is easy on easy off so you won't gain much just waste more. rember to start least aggressive first with swirl remover..

:xyxthumbs: Steve
 
!st clay the paint.
TSW-use a white pad and if that doesn't remove all the swrils after a couple of passes move up to the orange pad. Use speed 6 if you can handle the vibration.
FG is a finishing polish, use the blue pad and if that doesn't finish down, use the white and then finish down again with the blue. Use speed 5 or 6.
I perfer to apply waxes by hand, but you can use the red pad. Just press the max wax on the sides to release the wax from the container and butter your pad.
If your going to use the sealant.. apply before the wax. Do not put sealant over wax.
You don't need a pad lub.
Go to Walmart and get some Dawn Power Dissolver to clean your pads.
Sorry have to get to dinner, so ask more questions as needed. Good Luck. BTW Honda's have soft paint.:buffing:

What does the above highlighted mean (keep in mind I'm a noob) I have heard a few people say this. Does it mean use the blue if the blue does not do the job use white then use blue again? If thats the case, it seems like a lot of work?
 
I think Ron aka Rsurfer did a great job of guiding you through the process,

!st clay the paint.

TSR-use a white pad and if that doesn't remove all the swirls after a couple of passes move up to the orange pad. Use speed 6 if you can handle the vibration.

FG is a finishing polish, use the blue pad and if that doesn't finish down, use the white and then finish down again with the blue. Use speed 5 or 6.

I prefer to apply waxes by hand, but you can use the red pad. Just press the max wax on the sides to release the wax from the container and butter your pad.

If your going to use the sealant.. apply before the wax. Do not put sealant over wax.


TheGLL added to great links,



I just re-read this one as a part of recommending the "Kissing the Finish" technique of using a PC to apply a liquid wax and it reminded me of how detailed this article is, so if you haven't read it, take a few minutes to read through it as it walks you through ALL of the exact steps to follow to remove swirls using a PC

Tips and Techniques for using the PC 7424XP Dual Action Polisher to remove Below Surface Defects


:dblthumb2:
 
^^ Yep really good article.
The "search" option should be used more often.
 
You know what, I don't want to sound like a ####... but I am going to. I'm from NY where we don't hold a thing back, and last I checked this was a F'ing detailing forum. If I have a question as to what pads and technique to use, then I will make a post and ask it.... I'm not here to use the "search feature" I spend my hard earned money on the autogeek store, so if I want to ask a few questions i think I am f'king entitled. If you want to make sarcastic comments, don't comment at all...

Sorry to the staff at autogeek if this comes across the wrong way, I am tired of people who just respond with useless comments on forums. I made this thread to express how happy I was to receive my DA and ask for advice on how to use it. I had a thread of mine closed down a few weeks ago, from asking a simple question, and then comments from people like this are just looked over?
Well mavven, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but useless, inexperienced posts aren't going away anytime soon. Better get used to it or you will F bomb your way off the forum. PS .. On your 09 Accord, I doubt seriously you will need that orange pad, I would go white for my polishing stage
 
If I have a question as to what pads and technique to use, then I will make a post and ask it.... I'm not here to use the "search feature"

Hi mavven77,

I just re-read the thread and it looks like Rsurfer, Steven C, TheGLL and myself all chimed i and from what I read it looks like your questions were answered?

If anyone were to look at every post I've ever made on any forum I think it would be really hard to find a single post where I've personally said, "Use the Search Feature", that's not my style.

And in the defense of TheGLL, I don't think he meant any harm, I've interacted on this forum with him and he seems to be a nice person.

There's one comment/question you made on page one that I'll try to clear up and if you have any more questions please feel encouraged to post them or call me directly and I'll do my best to see you through to success.

We appreciate your business but the transaction's not done till you get good results out in your garage so that's where I come into the equation.

As I type this it's 9:30am Saturday morning, December 5th, 2009, I'll be here till about 4:00pm so you can post any further questions you have or call me on my work line as I would love to help you with your new products to get the best use out of them.

Work: 800-869-3011 x206



:)
 
What does the above highlighted mean (keep in mind I'm a noob) I have heard a few people say this.

Does it mean use the blue if the blue does not do the job use white then use blue again? If thats the case, it seems like a lot of work?


Let me take a stab at explaining the process and then I'll tie it into Ron's answer


I'm assuming that since you bought this kit you're trying to remove swirls and the polish the paint on your car to a high gloss and then seal the paint to protect it.

This being true the goal is to remove the swirls using the least aggressive method possible because by doing this you leave the most amount of paint on the car to last over the service life of the car.

So to remove the swirls and use the least aggressive product when we look at your products you have one swirl remover, (chemical), and multiple pads which offer different levels of aggressiveness, this is where your Test Spot comes into play.


Let me go through your questions one by one and then I'll outline how to do your test spot and this will help you dial in a process with the product you have to get a show car shine.

Going to be used on a brand new 2009 Honda Accord, Bold Beige Metallic. From what I can see paint appears to be in excellent condition...

Being brand new it should be flawless and in my opinion I think Honda's have nice paint, at least when they are new and most of the Honda paint systems I've worked on have been easy to work on so you have that going for you.

The best way to inspect for swirls is to pull the car into bright sunlight when the sun is overhead and place the sun down on the hood as this will expose any swirls.

The other way is to use a Swirl Finder Light and these come in real hand on cloudy days. Of course it's harder to see swirls on light colored cars like silver and beige so that does make your car more challenging to see the swirls but it also means if it does have swirls the won't show up as easy.

Using a Brinkman Swirl Finder Light to inspect for swirls
FirstSatClass016.jpg





Hopefully the paint on your car doesn't have DISO

DISO = Dealer Installed Swirl Option

That's when a dealership lets their in-house detailer buff the car out with a rotary buffer and poor quality products and in the process instills buffers swirls, or if the car has just been washed a lot by the "Lot Boy" with poor quality products and bad technique and filled the paint with Cobweb swirls.

You say the paint looks good so you're probably one of the lucky ones and there's probably little to no swirls to remove.

Again, the best way to find out is to move the car into bright sunlight or use a Swirl Finder Light to expose them. This is kind of key to your process because you need to know if you even have a problem that needs to be fixed?

If the car has little to no swirls then theoretically you could wash and dry the car, clay the paint if needed and then apply the paint sealant.

So see if you can determine if the car has swirls or not and I'll go ahead and continue as though it has at least light swirls.

Even if it doesn't it won't hurt to machine clean and polish the paint using the WG TSR 3.0 because it's a very nice SMR and leaves a very clear, clean finish perfect for final polishing and even going straight to your LSP



TSR... Which pad? and what speed 5-6?


Which Pad
Going by your description, you should be able to use a White Polishing Pad as you say the car is brand new and appears to be in excellent condition.

Going to be used on a brand new 2009 Honda Accord, Bold Beige Metallic. From what I can see paint appears to be in excellent condition...

This is where your Test Spot comes into play and I'll add that in the next post.


Which Speed Setting

Plan on using the 5.0 Speed Setting.

To remove swirls with just about any SMR or Swirl Mark Remover, and just about any quality dual action polisher, you typically need to be at the 5.0 speed range and up to the 6.0 speed range.

I've used the GG ROP and from my personal experience, it has the most usable power out of the 3 current dual action polishers we carry that use a free rotating spindle assembly.

I'm not making a value judgment on either the PC 7424XP or the new Meguiar's G110v2, just stating a fact as I see it and as the technical specifications for the tools are compared to one another. This also is not an endorsement of the Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher, it's just my observation.

That said, running the GG ROP at the 6.0 speed setting is like using a rotary buffer as long as you're holding the pad flat and for your car I don't think you're going to need to use the 6.0 Speed Setting, so plan on using the 5.0 Speed Setting.




Glaze... Which pad? and what speed 3-4?

Which Pad
When applying a light cleaner/polish, in this case the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze, you generally are trying to build on the results from your first step product the swirl remover and as such you want to use a less aggressive pad than you used with the swirl mark remover.

Since you'll likely be using the White Polishing pad for the WG TSR 3.0 you can use either the Gray or the Blue pads. The Gray Finishing pad is pretty soft and should work great but to be honest, at this point of the process and of the soft pads could be used, only some testing and inspecting with good eyes would be able to determine if there's a different result being obtained and black paint would be the best way to determine this. If anyone wants to get real AR over this then the best way to test would be to test using a car that has the exact same clear paint system on his Beige Honda on a car with a black basecoat so you could easily see exactly what's going on. Now that's for the Extreme AR Enthusiast.

The fact that this is a beige Honda and likely a daily driver then at some point just the act of machine polishing the paint first with the TSR 3.0 and now following that with the Finishing Glaze, seriously, at this point any of the soft pads would work but I'd probably go with the gray foam finishing pad because it will tend to move over the paint better than the red and blue foam pads as they are both very soft and when applying finishing glazes they tend to be a little too smooshy for my taste. Feel free to experiment and see what you like best, my input here is just recommendations that you can follow or ignore.


mavenspads.jpg





Which Speed Setting
For a light cleaner/polish, in this case the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze, but this hold true for just about any finishing polish when you've already removed the swirls, you will want to be around the 4.0 to 5.0 speed setting. Higher speeds for removing defects, lower speeds for jeweling the paint if the defects, (swirls or micro-marring from the first step), are already removed or non-existent.

Because the Wolfgang TSR 3.0 finishes out crystal clear on most paint systems you can probably pick a speed of 4.0 to 5.0 and get the same results. If you find the 4.0 Speed Setting to be easier to use and more enjoyable then apply the WG FG on the 4.0 Speed Setting.




Sealant... Which pad? and what speed 3-4?

Either the blue or the red, again these are both so soft that at this point in the process it's not going to be a huge factor as to the final results. If you want to dedicated one pad for your sealant then pick the red one as you can lock the color blue in as your sealant pad.

Use the GG ROP on the 3.0 Speed Setting

Wax... Red pad? 3-4 speed?

If you use the blue pad for your sealant then dedicate your red pad for your Max Wax.

Use the GG ROP on the 3.0 Speed Setting


And after all this, should I even bother applying the XMT QD?

If by XMT QD you mean, XMT Final Finish Instant Detailer, then generally speaking, after you apply your last protection product and then wipe-off the residue, at this point the process is over and now you want to leave the finish alone and let the protection ingredients fully set-up.

You can if you see a smear, mist a light spray of of the XMT Final Finish Instant Detailer and this will help you to wipe away any streaks, smears or residues, but note that every time you "touch" a freshly applied coating of wax or paint sealant before it's fully set-up you're disrupting the coating.

So wipe off the wax and stand back and admire the shine and save your XMT Final Finish Instant Detailer for removing light dust, fingerprints in a day or two.

Note that most waxes and paint sealants do well with a 24 hour window of time to fully set-up. It doesn't take 24 hours for all the protection ingredients to fully set-up, the 24 number is just a part of the window of time. Don't make things more complicated than they have to be.


Now after you've done all these step, don't take the car through a car wash but instead take ownership of the car wash process and use the highest quality car washing products and tools to wash and dry your car's paint.



:)
 
1st clay the paint.

TSR-use a white pad and if that doesn't remove all the swirls after a couple of passes move up to the orange pad. Use speed 6 if you can handle the vibration.

FG is a finishing polish, use the blue pad and if that doesn't finish down, use the white and then finish down again with the blue.

Use speed 5 or 6.

mavven77,

I'll take a stab at what Ron meant, if I'm off base I'm sure he'll chime in.


What he meant when he said finish down was that the blue pad together with the Finishing Glaze should be more than capable of refining the results left by the first step process, (the Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover 3.0 with the White Polishing Pad), to a higher level, and hopefully a show car finish but if it didn't then you would want to use a more aggressive pad for a little more polishing action and that's where he referenced using a white polishing pad.


Again, the goal is to remove any swirls, scratches or imperfections out of the paint using the least aggressive products and process so that you leave the most amount of paint on the panels to last over the service life of the car.

In your case you have an orange cutting pad but you HOPE you can remove the swirls and scratches with the white polishing pad, (it's less aggressive, as it will finish out nicer since it's a softer foam.

If that happens, then you should be able to follow the swirl remover and the polishing pad with a less aggressive foam pad and Ron suggested the blue foam pad and I suggested the gray foam pad as this would leave you the blue and red pads for your LSP's.

Take heart, it sounds like your paint is in great shape to start with and I"m confident the process I outlined will work perfectly.

Please do read through this in its entirety as it does explain exactly how to use the Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher in AR Detail including how to do a Test Spot.


Tips and Techniques for using the PC 7424XP Dual Action Polisher to remove Below Surface Defects


If you have any further questions, please ask away...



:dblthumb2:
 
He probably won't need the cut of an orange pad if the car is brand new but then again the dealer may of given it the customary "SWIRLY BIRD" treatment !! :)
 
He probably won't need the cut of an orange pad if the car is brand new but then again the dealer may of given it the customary "SWIRLY BIRD" treatment !! :)

Yeah... that's what I posted and think, hard to tell since we're not there to inspect the paint for him, that's something he'll have to do if he has good weather as you really need the sun to highlight and reveal swirls or some kind of artificial light.


:)
 
I deleted my comments that I made in a previous post, I was out of line, and I apologize.

I would also like to thank Mike Phillips for taking the time to break down some of my questions with great advice.

Mike I have one question about checking for swirl marks. As I stated the car is 2009 brand new Beige Metallic, I know many dealers do not prep the cars properly which in turn causes swirl marks. I have been checking my car every day in direct sunlight and I don't know if it is my inexperience or if it has something to do with this color, but I cannot see any swirl marks in the paint. Is it possible that there are no swirl marks, and if so would I do more harm to the paint if I use swirl remover if there are no swirls?
 
Mavven---I m glade you ask about this....I should get my Griot's 3" and Griot's HD 6" Polisher and Pad Kit.....Thanks Mike for all the Good info.:xyxthumbs:
 
Check out the

I have been checking my car every day in direct sunlight and I don't know if it is my inexperience or if it has something to do with this color, but I cannot see any swirl marks in the paint.

I'd say you're very lucky! Celebrate! Seriously, if you can't see swirls in bright sun then the paint is in all likelihood fine and you got lucky. I cringe when I read the horror stories but breathe a sigh of relief when I here good news like this. It's a crime to buy a BRAND NEW car only to discover DISO

DISO = Dealer Installed Swirl Option

Especially since I've worked with dealerships on the training side and for the most part none of the people in this industry care about the paint on the cars they sell. It's all about getting you into a cubicle and signing on the dotted line.

Is it possible that there are no swirl marks, and if so would I do more harm to the paint if I use swirl remover if there are no swirls?

Great question!

Actually with some product you could do more harm than good if you're starting with a flawless finish. I don't believe that would be the case with the WG Twins though as so far they've really impressed me for finish quality on ever paint system I've used them on.

This is where a Test Spot comes in handy. Buy a roll of painter's tape and lay down a single strip of tape to a flat surface like the hood or trunk lid and then try just the Finishing Glaze with a polishing pad on the 5.0 speed setting for about 4-6 Section Passes and then wipe off the residue and compare that section to the control section for gloss and overall appearance. If you see a big improvement then do the entire car, if you don't the skip any machine polishing.

A single tape line really makes it easy for your eyes to see a difference versus just having a foggy section between the area that was buffed and the area that was not buffed. I'm going to guess I've probably placed more single strips of tape on car hoods and buffed than anyone in history so I speak from experience.

Be sure to wash and dry or wipe the car clean and feel the paint for any above surface bonded contaminants before starting. (I think you already did all this but I type this for all the people that might read this in the future).




I would also like to thank Mike Phillips for taking the time to break down some of my questions with great advice.

Mavven---I m glade you ask about this....I should get my Griot's 3" and Griot's HD 6" Polisher and Pad Kit.....
Thanks Mike for all the Good info.

Thank you for the kind words, I've been in your shoes before and did things the wrong way and use products that did more harm to paint than good, so I like to help others to avoid the mistakes I made when I first started polishing paint in 1976, I should type up that story someday...

Note the new line I added to my Signature Line...


:xyxthumbs:
 
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