Ipa

Kurt_s said:
Isopropyl alcohol is a fast drying solvent. It may or may not dissolve residual contaminants from polish, wax, sealants, environmental contaminants, etc.

If the polish is dissolved into the IPA on the surface of the paint and is wiped up, where do you think the dried polish is when the IPA in the towel dries? For example, think about the polish "cement" left over on occasion with M105 if we don't wipe it clean before it dries on the paint. If you use IPA or MS, it's in the towel.

We already know that an IPA wipedown can leave streaks which are probably contaminants (polish, wax, sealants, etc.) that were solubilized but were left behind dissolved in residual IPA when wiping with the MF towel. I would guess that 100% mineral spirits would leave residuals behind as well, except MS may 1)evaporate more slowly so the polish may stay solubilized in the towel after removal and not get left behind on the paint, 2) the MS may remain on the paint surface in solution phase so we can't see the dried residual on the paint, or 3) the MS has residual oils that mask the contaminants. I vote for number 1 or 2.

MS may also keep the polish from drying in the towel, so the softened polish may not scratch the paint as easily as the contaminated towel used with IPA which may allow the polish to come out of solution (like the hard cement like stuff we occasionally see while polishing). MS and IPA are not equal solvents with the same materials (they fall out of solution at different rates and concentrations).

While I'm not an organic chemist and have not spent anytime in petroleum distillation, I'm not so sure that mineral spirits have a lot of oils in it, unless they are specifically added for some reason. It may (probably does) have a number of hydrocarbons that co-distill at the same temperature and it may or may not be run through a series of filters to remove specific contaminants. The oily feeling that Mark mentioned could be oils or how the solvent solubilizes/interacts with our skin.

As a side note, mineral spirits are sold in three types (I-III) and we use type II which are known as white spirits (I googled it). Mineral spirits were the dry cleaning solvents used up through the 1950's, so it shouldn't leave too many oils on fabric.

Since MS doesn't dissolve paint and seems to be a good solvent for polishes, waxes and sealants, I would guess that it is a base solvent in many care car products such as bug and tar remover and some pre-wax paint cleaners. Four Star paint cleaner smells like MS to me.

Mark, fast drying mineral spirits may be a more pure distilled or non-adulterated form that happens to evaporate faster but it could be just "marketing." Don't buy the white, environmentally-safer mineral spirits that I bought for a cabinet restaining project that I started this summer. It's CR@P.

If you wanted the ultimate paint cleaner, I would guess that an automotive paint shop specific paint cleaner would offer the broadest "cleaning" capabilities. I just don't think we need to think that hard.
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This is a great post, full of information, but... why is it that the IPA process seems to be hit or miss? The way you describe this it should happen to everyone, when in fact it doesn't. If I have wiped a panel with one towel and had slight marring, change towels and use the same chemical with no marring, how is this possible if the IPA is crystallizing the polish and embedding itself into the towel?
 
rwright said:
This is a great post, full of information, but... why is it that the IPA process seems to be hit or miss? The way you describe this it should happen to everyone, when in fact it doesn't. If I have wiped a panel with one towel and had slight marring, change towels and use the same chemical with no marring, how is this possible if the IPA is crystallizing the polish and embedding itself into the towel?
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Richard, the variables are through the roof.
  • differences in polishes
  • lot number of the chemical
  • mixture of chemicals
  • surfactants and other chemicals
  • differences in paint
  • amount of paint removed and left on the paint
  • differences in paint surface and atmospheric temperature during the polishing step
  • differences in the IPA concentration
  • the MF towels being used
  • amount of residual polish in the towel
  • how much paint surface was wiped with a towel
  • how often the towel surface was changed during the wiping step
  • how hard the towel was wiped on the paint surface
  • et cetera

We may need to try different products with different paints and chemicals
 
Kurt_s said:
Richard, the variables are through the roof.
  • differences in polishes
  • lot number of the chemical
  • mixture of chemicals
  • surfactants and other chemicals
  • differences in paint
  • amount of paint removed and left on the paint
  • differences in paint surface and atmospheric temperature during the polishing step
  • differences in the IPA concentration
  • the MF towels being used
  • amount of residual polish in the towel
  • how much paint surface was wiped with a towel
  • how often the towel surface was changed during the wiping step
  • how hard the towel was wiped on the paint surface
  • et cetera
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Kurt, you forgot the most important variable...

Whether or not you're wearing elk skin during application Im the MAN

Btw: thanks for all the info
 
Kurt_s said:
Richard, the variables are through the roof.
  • differences in polishes
  • lot number of the chemical
  • mixture of chemicals
  • surfactants and other chemicals
  • differences in paint
  • amount of paint removed and left on the paint
  • differences in paint surface and atmospheric temperature during the polishing step
  • differences in the IPA concentration
  • the MF towels being used
  • amount of residual polish in the towel
  • how much paint surface was wiped with a towel
  • how often the towel surface was changed during the wiping step
  • how hard the towel was wiped on the paint surface
  • et cetera

We may need to try different products with different paints and chemicals
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying about the variables, but notice the common denominator?
 
By the way Kurt, you are one smart cookie! Thanks for your informative posts. :dblthumb2:
 
"Google is my professor"
-Black Eyed Peas-

Im the MANIm the MAN
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
Google is your friend Mark, no need to try and find a chemist to talk with.
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Dana, I don't know about you but I am really getting tired of this crap...I have been detailing cars since I was fifteen years old and I will be 38 in March...I am so sick of people trying to make buffing a car more complicated than sending people to the moon.....I think certain people here try to push their agendas to line their pockets...Remember the guy that posted using baby oil to lengthen the polishing time on his Da polisher...Mike Phillips had to jump in and tell him that he was going to contact Meguiars about this....Who cares what Meguiars has to say..If the baby oil works for him, that is all that matters....I noticed Kevin Brown jumping in on the same thread...What makes spritzing water or QD on a pad with a DA polisher his claim to fame? I have and still use a DA from time to time when paint readings are real low and I don't want to chance anything...You have seen me with it...I guess I can call it the SK method...However, I can tell anyone that if they want to use the KB method, they better have as many buffing pads and backing plates as the car they're working on has panels...The KB method is just a marketing tool so that these Meguiars guys can sell a lot of buffing pads and backing plates. Autogeek or Meguiars is probably going to be selling some sort of mineral spirits product very soon with some sort of a twist to it...That's why IPA is getting crapped on right now because you can buy it just about anywhere...
 
For removing polishes and waxes I use IPA or mineral sprits, but for final wipe I use a product recommended by my painter. It's made by PPG Industries out of Ohio and is called Acryli-Clean DX330 Wax and Grease Remover. It"s not cheap, around 50 bucks a gallon.
 
Rsurfer said:
For removing polishes and waxes I use IPA or mineral sprits, but for final wipe I use a product recommended by my painter. It's made by PPG Industries out of Ohio and is called Acryli-Clean DX330 Wax and Grease Remover. It"s not cheap, around 50 bucks a gallon.
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Recomended by painter, made by PPG. Now we are talking
 
CEE DOG said:
Recomended by painter, made by PPG. Now we are talking
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That stuff is used as well as prep-all (highly volatile solvents mixed, i.e. flashes fast (faster) like ipa) to do a wipe down before painting to make sure there is nothing that will hinder the painting. Xylene is something that is used alot and in many of the products used, flashes off fast and clean...mix it with MS and you get a good tar remover....but that is another subject.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
Google is your friend Mark, no need to try and find a chemist to talk with.
Click to expand...
That was never my intention. I respect what you say. I dumped the mineral spirits out of my spray bottle and back into its original canister after this discussion. It's on the dust collecting shelf.

bimmersales said:
Dana, I don't know about you but I am really getting tired of this crap...I am so sick of people trying to make buffing a car more complicated than sending people to the moon.....
Click to expand...
It's not crap, it's more about having an understanding of certain products. Maybe buffing a car is like clockwork to *you*, but some of us are not nearly as experienced. Therefore, buffing a car *properly* isn't an easy thing to do.
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
That was never my intention. I respect what you say. I dumped the mineral spirits out of my spray bottle and back into its original canister after this discussion. It's on the dust collecting shelf.

I know it wasn't buddy. I wouldn't say anything that was correct or tried myself to the point of confirming whether or not it works. No point in just throwing random words out there or what other people say without trying it yourself, that does no one any good on a forum that is trying to do the correct thing.

It's not crap, it's more about having an understanding of certain products. Maybe buffing a car is like clockwork to *you*, but some of us are not nearly as experienced. Therefore, buffing a car *properly* isn't an easy thing to do.
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Mark, don't get offended by Sean, he does great work and just gets frustrated with certain posts like we all do. No harm, no foul buddy.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
Mark, don't get offended by Sean, he does great work and just gets frustrated with certain posts like we all do. No harm, no foul buddy.
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No offense taken, honestly. I just wanted to remind him that some of use may not know as much as he does(as well as yourself). :dblthumb2: I know it can get a bit irritating for you guys, though. :laughing:
 
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