My Method with Megs #105

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jaymz

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Like a lot of people, I have had lots of problems with Megs #105 "flashing" before I've had a chance to work it much. Tried many suggestions from this and other forums that helped, but it still was a PITA.

So, here's what I've finally come up with that works for me and allows me to work it for a long time:

Note: this is using a CCS Orange pad and a Griot's 6" buffer (2nd gen)

1. Spritz pad with a couple shots of Megs #34 detailing spray BEFORE applying the #105 to the pad, and fold into the pad (fold in half 90' apart).

2. Spread on Megs #105 to saturate the pad as per Kevin Brown Method (again, I fold it into the pad as in step 1).

3. Put 3-4 nickel-sized dots on the pad.

4. Run buffer on spd #5-6 and GO!

Using this method, I can work a large area without flashing and without having to stop and spritz the paint surface or the pad - it just doesn't seem to flash. I can also work the #105 until it gets very thin and thus, it is so much easier to remove (still dusts like a #####, however).

I assume the use of #34 reduces the "cut" of the #105, but I can live with that.

Jim
 
I bought the Optimum Hyper Compound Spray . IMO it rivals M105 minus the dust and need to prime the pad with a conditioner. IMO there should be more buzz about the new sprays!
 
I think the Kevin Brown Method for priming the pad is a must with M105.

This helped greatly in terms of giving me a longer working time before flashing.
 
And I think the " Buzz" will be about the " New and Improved" M105 after the SEMA show this fall. ;)
 
Mike Burke said:
And I think the " Buzz" will be about the " New and Improved" M105 after the SEMA show this fall. ;)
Click to expand...

There is no for sure info that there will be a new M105, it is all speculation at this point.
 
You know what method works really well to combat M105's short working time? Mineral oil(baby oil.)

I learned this trick when I first ran into a car with a sticky clear coat. I looked around and found 2 ways to combat the polish from gumming up and that was switch to a DA polisher or use a drop of mineral oil every 2-3 new sections.

When the customer returned for a follow up and I tested the two methods. DA works well but the mineral oil gave me the biggest surprise. Put some mineral oil in a pump sprayer and used 1 mist every 2-3 sections, cleaning the pad between each new mist. Let me tell you, it made working with M105 a dream. The pad was so smooth and buttery, similar to working with OP II, and working time was really long. You could basically work it forever if you wanted. It still dusted but not as much as it usually does and I saw no real lost in cutting ability. Use mineral spirits vs IPA to remove the oils and you're good to go.
 
Lasthope05 said:
You know what method works really well to combat M105's short working time? Mineral oil(baby oil.)

I learned this trick when I first ran into a car with a sticky clear coat. I looked around and found 2 ways to combat the polish from gumming up and that was switch to a DA polisher or use a drop of mineral oil every 2-3 new sections.

When the customer returned for a follow up and I tested the two methods. DA works well but the mineral oil gave me the biggest surprise. Put some mineral oil in a pump sprayer and used 1 mist every 2-3 sections, cleaning the pad between each new mist. Let me tell you, it made working with M105 a dream. The pad was so smooth and buttery, similar to working with OP II, and working time was really long. You could basically work it forever if you wanted. It still dusted but not as much as it usually does and I saw no real lost in cutting ability. Use mineral spirits vs IPA to remove the oils and you're good to go.
Click to expand...

Interesting
 
jaymz said:
Anyone have more info on this?

Jim
Click to expand...


Just speculation...

I posted after SEMA last year that it was a little surprising a M105 2.0 wasn't introduced to address the issues surrounding it, but alas there was no such announcement.

I monitor a lot of detailing forums, don't post to all of them but monitor them, and the big picture is this, a lot of people in all types of geographical and areas all with vastly different climates, and ranging from Newbies to Pros, love the product but wish it had a longer buffing cycle with less dusting and easier wipe-off.

The online world has spoken...
Forum consensus on this topic is overwhelmingly consistent across the board and that consensus won't change, for better or worse, till the product undergoes change and then made public. (Not a rolling change that goes unannounced, which is also a common practice).


I'm confident the key people in charge of gathering feedback and channeling it to the right places are also very well aware of all the feedback provided via discussion forums plus the professional side of the industry, (refinishing industry i.e. body shops), and there comes a tipping point where reformulation becomes an "Action Item" on someone's plate.

If not this year at SEMA... when?

SEMA is traditionally where new products, or updated existing products are introduced. This practice has been changing due to the Internet, but historically SEMA has been the time and place for new introductions.


What ever magic David Ghodoussi created when he introduced Hyper-Compound and Hyper-Polish he hit a home run with,

  1. Long buffing cycle
  2. Zero dusting
  3. Easy wipe-off
In these three categories, his two new product are the new benchmark.


So just speculation... November's getting closer... so we'll all no in the near future...

One thing I've learned over my career in this industry... when it comes to detailing in general, the area that is the prime focus of the majority of people is the paint polishing aspect... it's number one. So any product, pad or tool related to creating a show car finish should also be the number one focus for anyone in this industry...

And because it's number one with people, it's the number one topic of discussion on detailing discussion forums and this provides direct feedback to the manufactures to ether pat themselves on the back or go back to the drawing board.


:)
 
jaymz said:
Anyone have more info on this?

Jim
Click to expand...

Any statement made by anyone regarding any new products from Meguiar's is purely baseless speculation at this time. Only an official announcement from someone at Meguiar's should be given any credence.

SEMA doesn't start until November 2nd; in the meantime we know nothing other than what we are hoping to see released. :props:
 
I have some 105 on it's way, after reading about it, I'm thinking of maybe going in a different direction. Any thoughts? Thanks
 
314wolf said:
What do you mean by "Flashing"?
Click to expand...

It means that the lubricating agents used in M105 "evaporate" quickly.

This does NOT happen as rapidly as people think.
Instead, the abrasive particles used in M105 ATTACH to the buffing pad readily, so the assumption is that the particles have "broken down" or that the lubrication is GONE.

Nopers, not usually the case.

For the guys that choose NOT to PRIME the pad prior to using buffing liquids, they are more susceptible to having the liquid ingredients soak into the foam or wool- effectively removing their ability to control dusting, to lubricate the surface, and to keep the abrasives rolling freely about.

When you PRIME the pad using the M105 (or any buffing liquid containing abrasive particles for that matter), this one little detail does SO many things to improve performance. Here are three of the MOST important.

1. By priming the pad using M105, you are effectively increasing the surface area of the pad that is in contact with the paint.
Since the foam material is porous, by filling in the pores, you are creating a bridge that allows additional abrasive to set upon. Best guess and depending on the pad material, you may be gaining an additional 30% to over 100% increase in usable surface area!

2. By priming the pad using M105, you are creating a "hard barrier", effectively slowing the absorption of the liquid ingredients of the compound.
Never forget- abrasive particles are HARD. The abrasives used in M105 are aluminum oxide... are teen-tiny (a very technical term)... and rather refined, so they pack tightly against each other. When this occurs inside a pore of a foam buffing pad, it can block the tunnel-like structure of the pad, creating what amounts to a dam that slows the absorption of liquid and abrasives through the individual pores.

Not only does this keep the ratio of liquid versus particles at their optimum performance level, it extends the buffing cycle.

In addition, it minimizes the potential for pad saturation. As many of us have experienced, once saturation occurs, the pad loses cutting power, it gets heavy, and the machine feels as if it is a bit out of balance.

3. By priming the pad using M105, you are keeping the accumulated mass at the face of the pad.
This allows the pad to work as intended by keeping its purposely designed cushioning free of excess buffing liquid throughout the pad.

Open cell pads allow air to travel through them rather easily, whereas closed cell pads do not. Of course, air is able to move through a closed cell pad, but at a much slower rate.

When the air tunnels (pore and tunnel structure) are clear, air can travel freely between these tunnels. This means that the pad can compress, rebound, and twist as it was designed. Fill the pore structure full of abrasive or liquid, and guess what? Everything changes! Air does not flow as easily, so compression and rebound slows. The pad gets hot and stays hot, because the buffing liquid is drastically impedes air flow, and also HOLDS the heat inside the pad.

Crazy stuff. Perhaps too technical of an answer, but it is accurate and it is WHY "flashing" doesn't raise its evil head when you PRIME the PAD. :props:
I could go on, but most folks will probably not even make to this line!
 
314wolf said:
I have some 105 on it's way, after reading about it, I'm thinking of maybe going in a different direction. Any thoughts? Thanks
Click to expand...
The Optimum sprays Mike referenced are the new State of the Art IMO; FWIW I gave my M105/205 away to a pro friend after using new Optimum sprays. Rumors have it they are developing a finishing and an AIO spray too. Just my $.02 FWIW.
 
http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNman000
Old Tiger said:
The Optimum sprays Mike referenced are the new State of the Art IMO; FWIW I gave my M105/205 away to a pro friend after using new Optimum sprays. Rumors have it they are developing a finishing and an AIO spray too. Just my $.02 FWIW.
Click to expand...

I just purchased the OID,ONR,OHC,OHS,OCW,OOS8,OPC and OTS yesterday.I super excited to try these.

We'll see what November brings with other new Optimum products





 
Mike Burke said:
And I think the " Buzz" will be about the " New and Improved" M105 after the SEMA show this fall. ;)
Click to expand...

This rumor is NOT TRUE.

The "change" occurred last year.
When Meguiar's updated M105 to be D/A compatible, that was the "new and improved formula".

Since I don't work for Meguiar's, I asked Jason Rose (just ten minutes ago) if there was another "update" to M105.

He said, "What?! No- where did that come from?"

"The forums."

Jason replied, "Please mention that I said that there is NO NEW FORMULA for 2010."

So there you have it. I liked the original formula myself. The new version is fantastic, too.
 
Thank you KB! I should be receiving my Megs #105 & #205 on Tuesday along with some LC pads. I'm really looking forward to giving this a try.
 
When you say that you prime the pad, are you just 4-5 dots of M105 on the pad? or is it something different?
 
lpj8 said:
When you say that you prime the pad, are you just 4-5 dots of M105 on the pad? or is it something different?
Click to expand...

Since Autogeek is a Meguiar's distributor, I don't know if it's breaking the forum rules to link to their site.

Instead, I'll just copy and paste a post from over there! Here you go:


Original thread by PorscheGuy997
A look into Pad Priming - The Kevin Brown Method

Hey everyone,
I thought I would give you guys a little sample of Kevin's paper. One of the most important topics covered is pad priming. Although it may seem simple, I wanted to clear up some confusion.

When I refer to pad priming, I am referring to the liquid that will be used in polishing - not a spray detailer.

M105, M205, M86, D151, SwirlX, ScratchX 2.0, and Ultimate Compound use abrasives that are uniform and non-diminishing (SMAT). That means that they are very different than most products that use abrasives that break down. These products that use non-diminishing abrasives rely heavily on the lubricant. If there is too much lubricant, then the cut will be reduced because the abrasive is floating in lubricant. If there is too little lubricant, then the product will "flash" very quickly and you will need to reapply product.

The best way to utilize the products listed above (non-diminishing or SMAT) is to prime the pad. To do so, take the product and pour some on the pad. Then, rub it in. You are not trying to spread butter on toast! Aggressively rub the product into the pad until the entire surface is covered.

To show the method, I chose M205 and a W9207 finishing pad.

StandardPad.jpg


Below is an example of a poorly primed pad. As you can see, the product has completely filled in each of the pores. This will waste product and reduce the cut.

Oversaturated.jpg


Here is what a properly primed pad should look like. The pores are not filled with product, but there is still product available in the pores.

Primed.jpg


To give you a better idea of what the pores look like, I took a macro shot of the above pad properly primed with M205.

Macro.jpg



Hope that helps!
 
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