Skill vs tools

Rhudeboye

Rhudeboye

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Just curious. In most professions a certain percentage of the work is due to the skill of the individual and another is due to the tool being used. i.e. A good race car drivers car may account for 35% while his ability to control it at high speeds may be the other 65% that wins him the race.

So how much emphasis do you put on the product & machine? Could you guys work the wonders that you do if top brands were not available to you and if you were stripped of your DA?
 
I will be the first to admit, I don't think I would be able to do this by hand. My DA and Rotary have spoiled me.
 
Skill is the key to success. Ones ability to understand the surface defects and plan a corrective action is 75% of the battle. The machine and products are merely an extension of ones ability and will do only as directed.

The best most expensive machine and product in the hands of an amateur are a disaster waiting to happen. I've seen beginners grab a rotary, slap on a pad with some compound and have at it. In the mere blink of an eye they've burned through the paint sometimes down to bare metal without realizing it.

A dual action polisher is a basic tool but as most of you've seen here more recently you can wear right through a clear coat in a hurry and the only recourse is re-painting.

Skill, knowledge, and experience are your best tools.........:props:
 
BobbyG said:
Skill is the key to success. Ones ability to understand the surface defects and plan a corrective action is 75% of the battle. The machine and products are merely an extension of ones ability and will do only as directed.

The best most expensive machine and product in the hands of an amateur are a disaster waiting to happen. I've seen beginners grab a rotary, slap on a pad with some compound and have at it. In the mere blink of an eye they've burned through the paint sometimes down to bare metal without realizing it.

A dual action polisher is a basic tool but as most of you've seen here more recently you can wear right through a clear coat in a hurry and the only recourse is re-painting.

Skill, knowledge, and experience are your best tools.........:props:
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:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
 
BobbyG said:
Skill is the key to success. Ones ability to understand the surface defects and plan a corrective action is 75% of the battle. The machine and products are merely an extension of ones ability and will do only as directed.

The best most expensive machine and product in the hands of an amateur are a disaster waiting to happen. I've seen beginners grab a rotary, slap on a pad with some compound and have at it. In the mere blink of an eye they've burned through the paint sometimes down to bare metal without realizing it.

A dual action polisher is a basic tool but as most of you've seen here more recently you can wear right through a clear coat in a hurry and the only recourse is re-painting.

Skill, knowledge, and experience are your best tools.........:props:
Click to expand...

Well now that read in to it more then I did! I just thought he meant, could I get the same results by hand!
 
I'd say 50/50. Knowing how and what to do should be mastered first, but there is no substitute for having the right tools to accomplish the task. With advances in detailing tools, notably DAs and polishes, what was once seen as task that should only be done by professionals can now be done by any enthusiast that is willing to learn the craft. I could not imagine trying to maintain my cars' finishes without a DA or rotary. The job would be too tedious and as I a result, I would be less inclined to do it.
 
You can obtain amazing results with less powerful(PCXP) tools compared to others out there(rotary), but you have to know what you're doing!
 
M.P. Cobra Fan said:
Well now that read in to it more then I did! I just thought he meant, could I get the same results by hand!
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Nope. Bobby was dead on.

Look at it this way. If a millionaire said detail my car, right now, and ill pay you 10 grand. You have no tools or product of your own, just a wallmart (they carry Megs but not the full line) Could you achieve a mirror like finish with no PC, Flex, Menza, DP, pressure washers etc. Just your skill working with entry level products.

If you can come extremely close by hand or with the cheap knock off low powered polisher Then id say skill is up near the 90% mark. if you simply cant do it with basics then product must be over 60%

For me. Product is currently around 65% as Im still learning and trying new things. My cars are looking better but so is my skill.
 
Well, if you put it that way. You can take my DA away...and I'll happily pickup my rotary! lol. I'll take the rotary over the DA any day. But, if you take my rotary away...I could never get the results by hand.

That being said. If you take my favorite products away and leave me with some "other stuff". I can make it work...no doubt in my mind. :buffing:
 
I used to think I was skilled, but after reading the forum, I found that there are a lot of things I didn't know. I'm better than the average guy who just buys otc stuff and slaps it on, but by no means a professional full of knowledge on what to do for everything, and probably never will be, but my friends and family like the work I do.

The pc I got last year is more than adequate for the things I do, and I'm still working on getting the technique that works best for me with that. I'm always trying to find the best product for what I want to do, and have achieved satisfactory results with some otc Megs products, but I want to try some others to see if they are "better".

Having the right tools is a big help in the process. Things like wheel brushes, sponges, micro fibers, etc. are vital in doing a good job in less time. If you are doing only your own car, and can spend the hours on it each time to get the results you want, more power to ya! I want things that help me do a good job in less time. I've used the cheap buffers, and found it easier and as fast to do things by hand. The pc is better in the respect that I get better results faster than I could do by hand. The products I want to use are ones that do the job without damaging the surface, or environment, and produce results.

Like Bobby said, tools are an extension of skill. Skill comes from practice and experience, imo. I've talked to 'professionals' who told me they can knock out a job in 4 hours by hand. I'm not fast enough to do that, and I doubt those guys did more than wash, wax and shine the tires. I don't know how they could clay, get out swirls, and wax in that amount of time by hand, unless there was more than 1 person working on the vehicle.

So, do what works best for you, and as Mike says, do it often.
 
Rhudeboye said:
Just curious. In most professions a certain percentage of the work is due to the skill of the individual and another is due to the tool being used. i.e. A good race car drivers car may account for 35% while his ability to control it at high speeds may be the other 65% that wins him the race.

So how much emphasis do you put on the product & machine? Could you guys work the wonders that you do if top brands were not available to you and if you were stripped of your DA?
Click to expand...

If his tool (race car) wasn't 100% then he would never win a race no matter how skilled.

It takes both skill and products working together to produce the best results.
 
A skilled detailer can make a car look good with OTC products and a junk buffer from Harbor Freight. Haveing good tools and products makes the job easier, but if you don't have the skill and knowledge you won't be able to achieve perfect results.
 
It takes both most of the time to pull maximum quality I believe. There seems to be a handfull of people on here that are amazing doing everything by hand and have their technique in those regards down. I personally was born into this business with a rotary in my hand and can do wonders with it - much better with it than doing anything by hand. BUT - without the proper technique (skill) - someone could use the best products out there and still ruin exteriors and interiors. I think some jobs require a great amount of skill (and an eye for detailing) - and the tools and products basically make the job that much easier and many times better quality.


Much respect to those that do it all by hand and with good quality! :dblthumb2:
 
Rhudeboye said:
Just curious. In most professions a certain percentage of the work is due to the skill of the individual and another is due to the tool being used. i.e. A good race car drivers car may account for 35% while his ability to control it at high speeds may be the other 65% that wins him the race.

So how much emphasis do you put on the product & machine? Could you guys work the wonders that you do if top brands were not available to you and if you were stripped of your DA?
Click to expand...
No and, you need both.

You can aquire skill and experience but, you will never grow past the ability of your tools. If my choice is junk or nothing, I'll take nothing.

Take that experienced race car driver out of his race car and put him in a 62 VW microbus and see how well his experience works.
 
feslope said:
No and, you need both.

You can aquire skill and experience but, you will never grow past the ability of your tools. If my choice is junk or nothing, I'll take nothing.

Take that experienced race car driver out of his race car and put him in a 62 VW microbus and see how well his experience works.
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I disagree. A skilled detailer with a junk buffer will still get better result than a novice with a brand new flex.

Also a skilled racecar driver will out drive a novice driver in a faster car. Obviously not a micro bus vs. a ferrari, but you get the point.
 
Wooooow! It's amazing to hear how quickly some of us can take the majority of the credit for our work based on skillset. Sure you can buy some cheap OTC products to hide your paint's imperfections, but is that really something to be so proud of? Who among us can do a 2 or 3 step full correction by hand and even if you think you can, do you really want to? Last time I checked my Flex spins and rotates a lot faster than my hand. Let's not get the facts twisted.
 
The very first time I ever touched a rotary buffer was after about a 15 minute over the phone instruction session with a local paint and body expert.

I borrowed a DeWalt with a wool pad on it, and started with some polish a guy gave me that said it would work. The vehicle was my truck before a car show. I made it look substantially better, none worse. A success in my book at the time.

After that, I decided that I liked how quick the rotary corrected, and that I'd look into one. I picked up an orange Harbor Freight buffer on sale for $30 or something crazy. That is the only buffer I used for a while, and I achieved good corrections with it. Still have it too.

Now, when I pick up a Makita or a DeWalt, they are Cadillac's.

No doubt the better tools make easier work, but they don't do the job for you.

Strictly in terms of results, I would guess something like:
Skill - 99%
Tool - 1%

I could put the best buffer in the world in the hands of my 3 year old daughter, and I bet you wouldn't like the results (I'm still just trying to explain to her the different stacks of towels in the garage).

DLB
 
CleanGene said:
Wooooow! It's amazing to hear how quickly some of us can take the majority of the credit for our work based on skillset. Sure you can buy some cheap OTC products to hide your paint's imperfections, but is that really something to be so proud of? Who among us can do a 2 or 3 step full correction by hand and even if you think you can, do you really want to? Last time I checked my Flex spins and rotates a lot faster than my hand. Let's not get the facts twisted.
Click to expand...
There are guys that are leaps and bounds ahead of me with their skillset, and they can and will outperform me with the same exact buffer.

Then you put a better buffer in my hand, and the lesser in theirs, and they still out perform me, how do you rationalize that?

DLB
 
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