Hazy 99 Harley

[SeaJay's]

Alright well I had a guy drop off his 99 Harley Police Special to have my Show Bike package done. Which includes a full correction. The bike is a metallic green (don't know the name).

The paint is really hazy to begin with due to age and not being properly maintained. So, I started buffing it tonight. I've tried several different combos and can't seem to get the haze to go away. The swirls are gone and when I shine a light on it and look directly over head it's clear as day, but as soon as I shine the light on an angle it appears hazy.

These are the combos I have tried so far.

Using PC7424 and 4in LC CCS pads.

Started White pad and M205. Got good results but still a few swirls.

Orange pad with M205. A little better but still hazy and few swirls.

Orange pad with WG Total swirl remover followed by WG finishing glaze on a green pad

I've also tried finishing with Menz Power finish and Menz PO85.

The paint is clear now other than a few RIDS, but the haze has not improved at all. Has anyone dealt with this on a Harley before? Or just in general?

I just can't seem to figure it out (could be I'm exhausted!). I don't have pics to post at this moment but I can get some probably tomorrow morning.

Maybe I need something with more cut? This is the first bike that I've actually done a paint correction on and I'm not sure how much paint I have to work with. My paint meter was suppose to be delivered Friday but I wasn't here to sign for it, so won't get it till Monday now.

 

[TLMitchell]

Dunno what a "Police Special" might be. Is it a former cop bike or a limited Peace Officers Special Edition? Regardless, none of 'em came in green. I'd say you're dealing with a respray and what you see is what you get. Since H-D's paint and chrome are as good as it gets what you're looking at may have been hazy right out of the repaint. ::shrug::

TL

 

[Flash Gordon]

:dunno:

 

[SeaJay's]

Dunno what a "Police Special" might be. Is it a former cop bike or a limited Peace Officers Special Edition? Regardless, none of 'em came in green. I'd say you're dealing with a respray and what you see is what you get. Since H-D's paint and chrome are as good as it gets what you're looking at may have been hazy right out of the repaint. ::shrug::

TL

Thanks for the input. I don't really know bikes all that well just going off of what I was told. I'll see if I can find some marking to tell me exactly what it is.

 

[Flash Gordon]

Thanks for the input. I don't really know bikes all that well just going off of what I was told. I'll see if I can find some marking to tell me exactly what it is.

Paint is paint. It doesn't matter what surface its on

Ask the owner if its imron. If so, run :bolt:

 

[gewb]

Alright well I had a guy drop off his 99 Harley Police Special to have my Show Bike package done. Which includes a full correction. The bike is a metallic green (don't know the name).

The paint is really hazy to begin with due to age and not being properly maintained. So, I started buffing it tonight. I've tried several different combos and can't seem to get the haze to go away. The swirls are gone and when I shine a light on it and look directly over head it's clear as day, but as soon as I shine the light on an angle it appears hazy.

These are the combos I have tried so far.

Using PC7424 and 4in LC CCS pads.

Started White pad and M205. Got good results but still a few swirls.

Orange pad with M205. A little better but still hazy and few swirls.

Orange pad with WG Total swirl remover followed by WG finishing glaze on a green pad

I've also tried finishing with Menz Power finish and Menz PO85.

The paint is clear now other than a few RIDS, but the haze has not improved at all. Has anyone dealt with this on a Harley before? Or just in general?

I just can't seem to figure it out (could be I'm exhausted!). I don't have pics to post at this moment but I can get some probably tomorrow morning.

Maybe I need something with more cut? This is the first bike that I've actually done a paint correction on and I'm not sure how much paint I have to work with. My paint meter was suppose to be delivered Friday but I wasn't here to sign for it, so won't get it till Monday now.

I think the wrong pad combo. White-orange for LC in backwards. I would have used orange-white-red (or black). Your orange is leaving the haze, regardless of polish. Green with glaze is just an attempt to cover hazing from the orange.

Autogeek Buffing Pad Comparison Chart

Regards, GEWB

 

[SeaJay's]

I think the wrong pad combo. White-orange for LC in backwards. I would have used orange-white-red (or black). Your orange is leaving the haze, regardless of polish. Green with glaze is just an attempt to cover hazing from the orange.

Autogeek Buffing Pad Comparison Chart

Regards, GEWB

Thanks! I do know the order for LC pads though. I will try the white pad after the WG total swirl remover. I honestly don't think it's going to make a difference, but I'll give it a shot.

The haziness hasn't changed at all from start. It should have at least improved with the White pad and 205. I'm thinking that it might be the paint and I won't be able to fix it. Either way I'll be getting back to this tonight and experimenting a little more with different combo. I'll also be picking up my paint meter today, so I can see roughly how much clear I have to play with. I'll be posting a thread about the detail once I finish it....hopefully by Wednesday...

 

[gewb]

Thanks! I do know the order for LC pads though.

We all know that you know...it was just too easy to respond. :laughing: oke: :laughing: oke: :laughing: oke:

Regards,
GEWB

 

[SeaJay's]

We all know that you know...it was just too easy to respond. :laughing: oke: :laughing: oke: :laughing: oke:

Regards,
GEWB

lol thanks! I'll be giving this another go tonight. We shall see if it's my pad combo or the paint!

 

[rwright]

Do you have 4" cyan hydro tech pads? How about 4" Surbuf pads? From my understanding, TL correct me if I'm wrong, motorcycle paint is harder. Also, like TL said, if it was a re-spray then it may have just been a bad job to begin with. You do have my attention with this though, thanks.

 

[TLMitchell]

Do you have 4" cyan hydro tech pads? How about 4" Surbuf pads? From my understanding, TL correct me if I'm wrong, motorcycle paint is harder. Also, like TL said, if it was a re-spray then it may have just been a bad job to begin with. You do have my attention with this though, thanks.

As H-D didn't produce any green cop bikes (that I know of, every one I've seen was black, white or a combo) or the Peace Officer Special Editions, working with a respray makes you the test pilot. By and large Harley tin...at least on the Softails and dressers that come out of York, PA... have incredibly soft clear powdercoat, at least on the tanks. I don't have the problem with swirls and finishing on fenders so I'm thinking they're traditional clearcoat.

FWIW, if you're dealing with a POSE it should have a small medallion on the tank console denoting it as such. They're basically production bikes in limited colors only available if you produce a badge when ordering. A dedicated police bike would most likely have "pucks" on top of the saddlebags to open them as they're hinged on the inside where production fiberglass saddlebags open outward with outside hinges and chrome latches. The cop bikes didn't have the clearance problem opening towards the bike as they were originally equipped with solo saddles with room behind the seat for a storage box and comm equipment. An original police bike should still have the red buttons on the handlebars for lights and sirens as well although the rest of the equipment would've been removed before it was traded or sold.

TL

 

[SeaJay's]

Do you have 4" cyan hydro tech pads? How about 4" Surbuf pads? From my understanding, TL correct me if I'm wrong, motorcycle paint is harder. Also, like TL said, if it was a re-spray then it may have just been a bad job to begin with. You do have my attention with this though, thanks.

Unfortunately I do not have the 4" version of the cyan pad or any Surbuf pads.

As H-D didn't produce any green cop bikes (that I know of, every one I've seen was black, white or a combo) or the Peace Officer Special Editions, working with a respray makes you the test pilot. By and large Harley tin...at least on the Softails and dressers that come out of York, PA... have incredibly soft clear powdercoat, at least on the tanks. I don't have the problem with swirls and finishing on fenders so I'm thinking they're traditional clearcoat.

FWIW, if you're dealing with a POSE it should have a small medallion on the tank console denoting it as such. They're basically production bikes in limited colors only available if you produce a badge when ordering. A dedicated police bike would most likely have "pucks" on top of the saddlebags to open them as they're hinged on the inside where production fiberglass saddlebags open outward with outside hinges and chrome latches. The cop bikes didn't have the clearance problem opening towards the bike as they were originally equipped with solo saddles with room behind the seat for a storage box and comm equipment. An original police bike should still have the red buttons on the handlebars for lights and sirens as well although the rest of the equipment would've been removed before it was traded or sold.

TL

Well I was looking at it last night and it has a little plaque below the speedo that says Road King Police Edition.

Don't know if that's different from what your saying above or not. Like I said I don't know anything when it comes to bikes.

 

[TLMitchell]

Well I was looking at it last night and it has a little plaque below the speedo that says Road King Police Edition.

I doubt that a police bike would have a plaque of any kind, they were devoid of any extras that didn't contribute to functionality. Leads me to believe it's a Peace Officer Special Edition. There weren't many Road King POSEs around in '99, most of them were a dark blue pearl or blue two-tone. Green was a common color for Road Kings though. Perhaps the plaque was just stuck on the bike. :shrug: Other than special paint schemes and the plaque there's really nothing special about the POSE other than the requirement to show a badge to order one. If one was on the floor that someone cancelled after ordering they'd sell it to anybody who walked in the door.

If you're indeed dealing with OEM H-D paint I haven't had any luck finishing with 205. Always had some micromarring I couldn't get rid of. I took a page out of someone else's book and tried some out-of-the-box approaches with excellent results. A firm cutting pad with a finishing polish worked well as did M105 with a finishing pad. That was on Vivid Black... most of the metallics I've polished were much less problematic and seemed harder. Best final finish I've ever gotten I used PO85RD with a 3" orange GG polishing pad and worked it for a long, long time.

If you'll eventually be tacking cleaning up '99 cast aluminum wheels the rear can be a real PITA if it's been neglected.... and most have been. Brake dust is somewhat caustic and etches into the aluminum as does the residue from wear of the drive belt. No way to get them back without wetsanding and polishing. Best results I've gotten cleaning them up was with S100 Polishing Soap and then Meg's Hot Wheels Mag & Aluminum polish. A real knuckle-busting pleasure trying to get down towards the hub. :doh:


If they're chrome wheels the spokes probably aren't chrome unless they've been replaced. OEM were cadmium plated and anything very aggressive removes the cad plating.

Is it this shade of green perhaps? IIRC it was called Emerald Green Pearl.

TL

 

[Kristopher1129]

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I just think you're dealing with hazy paint...most likely under the clear.

If you've taken all the swirls out, you've done your job. Throw wax on her, and I'm sure the customer will be happy.

You're probably just over thinking the customers expectations. I bet he'll be happy with what you've done. Don't kill yourself over one bike, haha. :dblthumb2:

 

[rwright]

TL, thank you for the correction on my error and thank you for helping out. It's nice to have you around.


Sent using Tapatalk

 

[SeaJay's]

I doubt that a police bike would have a plaque of any kind, they were devoid of any extras that didn't contribute to functionality. Leads me to believe it's a Peace Officer Special Edition. There weren't many Road King POSEs around in '99, most of them were a dark blue pearl or blue two-tone. Green was a common color for Road Kings though. Perhaps the plaque was just stuck on the bike. :shrug: Other than special paint schemes and the plaque there's really nothing special about the POSE other than the requirement to show a badge to order one. If one was on the floor that someone cancelled after ordering they'd sell it to anybody who walked in the door.

If you're indeed dealing with OEM H-D paint I haven't had any luck finishing with 205. Always had some micromarring I couldn't get rid of. I took a page out of someone else's book and tried some out-of-the-box approaches with excellent results. A firm cutting pad with a finishing polish worked well as did M105 with a finishing pad. That was on Vivid Black... most of the metallics I've polished were much less problematic and seemed harder. Best final finish I've ever gotten I used PO85RD with a 3" orange GG polishing pad and worked it for a long, long time.

If you'll eventually be tacking cleaning up '99 cast aluminum wheels the rear can be a real PITA if it's been neglected.... and most have been. Brake dust is somewhat caustic and etches into the aluminum as does the residue from wear of the drive belt. No way to get them back without wetsanding and polishing. Best results I've gotten cleaning them up was with S100 Polishing Soap and then Meg's Hot Wheels Mag & Aluminum polish. A real knuckle-busting pleasure trying to get down towards the hub. :doh:


If they're chrome wheels the spokes probably aren't chrome unless they've been replaced. OEM were cadmium plated and anything very aggressive removes the cad plating.

Is it this shade of green perhaps? IIRC it was called Emerald Green Pearl.

TL

Great info TL thank you! And that's the exact color of the bike! And it's a little plaque that says Road King Police and it's below the Tach not the speedo. I had to correct myself. Either way it's not important really.

I'm dealing with aftermarket stainless steel rims (according to the owner). They look like they are chrome plated steel. Either way, they are spoke wheels which have some rust on the ends of the spokes where they connect...so I'm going to have myself a great time polishing those up. Plus I don't have a bike lift so I'll be moving the bike back and forth.

I tried a couple other combos last night and still has a haze so I've decided it's just the paint and I'm not going to be able to rid it of it. The hard saddle bags don't have any haze to them. Just some deep RIDS. I think Kris is right that I'm over thinking the customer's expectations. I'm just extremely anal and really want it to be as perfect as possible. Sometimes I just need to realize that perfection cannot be obtained!

 

[BobbyG]

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I just think you're dealing with hazy paint...most likely under the clear.

If you've taken all the swirls out, you've done your job. Throw wax on her, and I'm sure the customer will be happy.

You're probably just over thinking the customers expectations. I bet he'll be happy with what you've done. Don't kill yourself over one bike, haha. :dblthumb2:

I understand your ultimate goal Jason but Kris touched on a few things here that you might consider.

Whether it's the color or the clear, if the haze is within the paint it's there to stay...short of refinishing. If you've removed the swirls and minor surface defects then that's about all you can expect.

Seeing some of your other work I'd say you've done your part, now put a nice coat of wax on it and call it a day....rops:

 

[Flash Gordon]

You still working on this peice Jason?!?!?!?

When that thing pulls out, your going to have a "good riddance" moment I bet

 

[SeaJay's]

You still working on this peice Jason?!?!?!?

When that thing pulls out, your going to have a "good riddance" moment I bet

Actually I haven't been working on it this whole time. I've been super busy with other details and trying to get my house fixed up to be put on the market. So, so far I've only got about 5 hours invested in the bike. I hope to have all the paint polished and protected tonight and be able to start on the chrome/metal. I'm shooting for having it completed by the end of the night tomorrow. We shall see...may have to put in a long night tonight!

 

[TLMitchell]

And it's a little plaque that says Road King Police and it's below the Tach not the speedo.

What tach? They didn't come with one. Add ons mounted in the center of the handlebars. Is the plaque mounted on the tach mount? Stranger and stranger.

I'm dealing with aftermarket stainless steel rims (according to the owner). They look like they are chrome plated steel. Either way, they are spoke wheels which have some rust on the ends of the spokes where they connect...so I'm going to have myself a great time polishing those up.

You might try Brillo/SOS on the rust spots... gently! I use it on crummy chrome with good results. 0000 steel wool & metal polish also works well. I cut the wool into thin strips and wrap it around the spokes and back n forth 'em.

On the front wheel you can usually grab down low where the spokes mount into the wheel and tug the wheel around a few inches at a time with the wheel straight with the bike. Easiest if you have the front wheel sitting on a wet spot with a dab of soap. That's if you have a smooth garage floor to work on.

If you've got a floor jack and a piece of 2x4 you can jack slightly under the frame crossmember under the tranny just enough to relieve weight on the wheels. Makes everything easier if the bike is upright instead of on the sidestand too.

I tried a couple other combos last night and still has a haze so I've decided it's just the paint and I'm not going to be able to rid it of it. The hard saddle bags don't have any haze to them. Just some deep RIDS.

Just curious, are the bag latches chrome mounted on the outside lip of the lid or twisting pucks on top of the bag? I would hope the owner removed the bags if you don't know how to do it. Those Dzus fasters they've used for about 60 years are a real Rube Goldberg contraption. If you look at the bottoms of the bags they're probably already scratched up from people sitting them down on concrete. If they're still fairly nice set 'em on a towel or two.

I think Kris is right that I'm over thinking the customer's expectations. I'm just extremely anal and really want it to be as perfect as possible. Sometimes I just need to realize that perfection cannot be obtained!

Bikes are frequently neglected, especially those that do serious road trips. It isn't practical to try and clean 'em much on the road and between the bugs and some weather they get pretty cruddy. I try to get some protection where I can as once things go to hell you aren't going to be able to restore 'em.

FWIW, although Glare Pro Polish is widely regarded as snake oil it makes an excellent chrome polish and doesn't seem to burn off the pipes right away like wax or sealants. I certainly wouldn't pay what they're asking for it on their Web site but it's available with OEM labels... I picked up a bottle of Honda-labeled on eBay cheap. I don't believe most of the claims but it has a few very good uses.

Frankly, I don't know how anyone can make any money detailing bikes due to the combination of being labor-intensive and most won't owners won't pay what it's worth to get it done right and thoroughly.

TL