How much are you guys charging for Cquartz/Opti-coat or any other super sealants?

[Flash Gordon]

I'm not saying it to gain praise from anyone. I said it only b/c David said that you can't do it if you are applying the product correctly. While I appreciate you trying to intervene, I can assure you it is unnecessary.

O.K. then. I understand. You've made your point, so can we now just let this thread go in another direction? I'm really very intrested in learning how I may be able to add a couple hindred dollars to a detail. If you keep jumping in like this, all its going to do is get the thread shut down

Thank you for your consideration in this matter


Flash

 

[Flannigan]

O.K. then. I understand. You've made your point, so can we now just let this thread go in another direction? I'm really very intrested in learning how I may be able to add a couple hindred dollars to a detail. If you keep jumping in like this, all its going to do is get the thread shut down

Thank you for your consideration in this matter


Flash

My final post off topic....I would really hope that me defending myself from an obvious attack wouldn't get the thread shut down. I understand people don't agree with me, but i don't think there is anything wrong with this thread. I think it's healthy to have discussion like this, as long as they don't turn into insult threads. rops:

 

[Flash Gordon]

My final post off topic....I would really hope that me defending myself from an obvious attack wouldn't get the thread shut down. I understand people don't agree with me, but i don't think there is anything wrong with this thread. I think it's healthy to have discussion like this, as long as they don't turn into insult threads. rops:

I understand what your saying. Believe me, I've been where you are now. But once you make your point, or say what you have to say, then IMO, don't worry about what anyone else might come back at you with. If you know your right, just forget about it. If what you say truly makes sense, others will notice and respond

I do hope you decide to hang with us awhile. Its very nourishing for me to be on the other end of something like this


Flash

 

[David Fermani]

Nice try buddy. I most certainly apply it correctly. I do all my work correctly, and it shows by how many clients not only return to me, but get all of their friends and relatives to come to me. But good try on your little hidden insult there.

For the record it is ENTIRELY possible for someone to apply OC/OG to an entire vehicle (paint, trim, wheels, glass) in an hour. Obviously you're not going to do it on a pick up truck, but on a BMW or Audi Coupe say, it is very doable if you have the skills to do it.

I haven't argued with everyone who disagrees, but I will surely defend myself from an obvious personal attack from David.

I'm not saying it to gain praise from anyone. I said it only b/c David said that you can't do it if you are applying the product correctly. While I appreciate you trying to intervene, I can assure you it is unnecessary.

And I’ll stand by my statement that you can’t properly do the process in less than an hour. I’ve done it enough and coached enough people to know differently. I don’t see anyone else stepping up here saying they can do it as fast as you? Gee, I wonder why? I’m talking more than the act of just wiping the coating on too. If you’re cleaning the surface, making sure the entire car is dry and treating all the paint, glass and wheels in an hour or less, then I know (from lots of experience) that something is being missed. I could care less what you say otherwise because it means zero. Especially when I know my application methods make the product stand up to its maximum potential and it’s already being proven.

And before you go spouting off that I’m insulting you, you should avoid making blanket statements like this:

There is a difference between charging more than volume detail shops because you are better and just charging more because people are too dumb to do any research. That is taking advantage of people, and it's shady.

 

[Shane731]

I understand what your saying. Believe me, I've been where you are now. But once you make your point, or say what you have to say, then IMO, don't worry about what anyone else might come back at you with. If you know your right, just forget about it. If what you say truly makes sense, others will notice and respond

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em; know when to walk away, know when to run...












:laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

[Flannigan]

And I’ll stand by my statement that you can’t properly do the process in less than an hour. I’ve done it enough and coached enough people to know differently. I don’t see anyone else stepping up here saying they can do it as fast as you? Gee, I wonder why? I’m talking more than the act of just wiping the coating on too. If you’re cleaning the surface, making sure the entire car is dry and treating all the paint, glass and wheels in an hour or less, then I know (from lots of experience) that something is being missed. I could care less what you say otherwise because it means zero. Especially when I know my application methods make the product stand up to its maximum potential and it’s already being proven.

And before you go spouting off that I’m insulting you, you should avoid making blanket statements like this:

I'm sorry, but if you can't do something in a hour that doesnt mean that no one can.

Also please tell me why the time it take to apply a coating would include cleaning and drying the paint? You're a pro, wouldn't you do that before applying a sealant or wax? I know I would.

So I will stand by my statement that on a smaller vehicle you can apply oc in a hour and do it correctly. Im the MAN

 

[Blackthorn One]

I'm sorry, but if you can't do something in a hour that doesnt mean that no one can.

Also please tell me why the time it take to apply a coating would include cleaning and drying the paint? You're a pro, wouldn't you do that before applying a sealant or wax? I know I would.

So I will stand by my statement that on a smaller vehicle you can apply oc in a hour and do it correctly. Im the MAN

I must say that I am very impressed that you can properlly apply this coating to a car, including all of the nooks and crannies like the underside lips of hoods, the inside of fender lips, doorjambs, the edges of a hood and fenders with the hood up, the edges of the decklid and the area of the body where the decklid weatherstripping seats, and all of the nooks and crannies of the wheels, including completely inside the lug recesses. Doing the part of the doors that is covered by the jambs on the bottom, back and front of the doors as well. I don't know if you said that you did the glass too, but getting completely in the corners without slobbering on the rubber weatherstripping takes a lot of skill too, unless you take time to mask. Do you take off the wheels and do the INSIDE or, the backside of the wheels as well? Being able to do the whole car without slobbering any product on any of the cars rubber trim anywhere is very impressive. It would be a pleasure to watch a man of your skill do your work.

 

[Flash Gordon]

:sigh:

 

[mr.fusion]

As someone who is not in the detailing business, this thread was an entertaining read a couple days ago... first few pages. So take this as a newb or 3rd party response. I do make a living working on cars, just not detailing... I do some retail but mostly at wholesale accounts.

I can understand the good intentions that Flannigan has with his viewpoint, but it seems to me to he's painted into a corner and forced to defend against all argument. Having said that, I have a lot of respect for his attitude and honesty with the customer... and would be very happy to give him my business after reading the thread. But I don't see a problem charging more if this is truly a special product/service that lasts 2 years or more.

IMO, it's not fraud or shady business at all, depending on how it's sold. I see part of the markup as a warranty... a guarantee of some kind. Now, I would have a problem with charging $300 if you are going to tell the customer they are SOL in a year from now if the supercoating isn't holding up, when you sell it at a 2+ year product. I'm assuming you would take care of them should it ever need re-treated, etc. You HAVE to build that "warranty" into the cost. It's a risk and you are the ins co. Flipside... you won't be liable if the stuff craps out, if you only charged for basic time+material.

It's not unlike other "products" sold at dealers that are several hundred bucks, and use $50 worth of materials and an hour of labor, if that. Ex... say a $300 undercoat really only takes 30 minutes (about $40-50 shop labor) and a $20 jar of product (don't know the actual costs but that is a fair example) why is this different?

I don't think it matters what you paid for the product used, unless you are forced to bill the customer time and material? Can't you bill for a service or procedure without a itemized breakdown of parts and labor?

I understand that detailers charge based on the cost of the products used? If you use high end brand X wax and charge a few $ more: What do you do if you get a killer sale price or a BOGO or somehow get stuff at wholesale cost? Are you obligated to pass along that savings to your client and charge them "turtle wax" pricing? I would hope not.

btw, I wish it worked that way with auto repair shops. I had some work done recently on my car and was charged about $170 a pop for struts, when I could find them down the street at the parts store for about $100 and online for even less, shipped. It's just the way it is, and it's not a secret. Yes, MSRP blah blah... that's missing the point.

 

[David Fermani]

I'm sorry, but if you can't do something in a hour that doesnt mean that no one can.

Ummm, yes it sorta does. My background is in high-volume detailing and my shop was actually capable and concentrated on completing 25-35 complete details per day, every day, every week, every month, every year. For well over 10 years. I’d say I’m pretty confident that if anyone can understand and perform a task in an efficient amount of time, that I’m certainly qualified to speak on it.

Also please tell me why the time it takes to apply a coating would include cleaning and drying the paint? You're a pro, wouldn't you do that before applying a sealant or wax? I know I would.

That’s what makes this coating different and why you should be charging a surplus for its application. It’s TOTALLY different than a sealant or wax. It requires a clean surface to promote the best possible adhesion, therefore creating the best possible results. Not only does the surface need to be clean, bare AND dry, it should also be corrected to the best possible level. That way you’re applying this true sacrificial barrier to the absolute best possible substrate. If not, you’re locking in those flaws thus creating an inferior product. And if you’re polishing, that means the polishing solvents and oils as well as the dust/debris must also be stripped from the surface prior to application. That requires an APC, strong chemical wash or alcohol decontamination (or combination of them which I do). Also keeping in mind that when doing an alcohol wipe down, you’re not spreading the contaminants to other clean areas of the surface. This means constantly being aware of using a clean portion of the MF and constantly swapping out for a fresh one as needed. Again, all this takes time AND skill to be able to perform the best possible treatment. Rarely, if ever, do I (or anyone I know) go to that level to prep a surface for wax or sealant.

So I will stand by my statement that on a smaller vehicle you can apply oc in a hour and do it correctly.

And you’re entitled to your *opinion*, but so is everyone else. And at this point, everyone feels it takes more than and hour and should be a premium priced service. So, I’ll stand by my statement too. rops:

 

[Flash Gordon]

[video=youtube_share;YwmUgVrUJ4I&feature=relmfu] - ‪Intense Butt and Legs - Workout‬‏[/video]

 

[Flash Gordon]

[video=youtube_share;a49legnOSPY&feature=related] - ‪Crazy Slap Chop Lady‬‏[/video]

 

[Perfections]

I charge a premium and sleep at night just fine knowing that the dealerships around me charge 895+ dollars for an acrylic paint sealant that only last a year, although they warranty it for 5, they apply an inferior product and charge double what I do on a brand new vehicle, this product is unique and when applied properly which takes more then an hour deserves to be charged accordingly

 

[jakesdad]

OUR MOTTO AT THE OFFICE WAS.....


"REMEMBER, WE STEAL FROM OTHERS AND PASS THE SAVINGS ON TO YOU":xyxthumbs:

 

[Flannigan]

I must say that I am very impressed that you can properlly apply this coating to a car, including all of the nooks and crannies like the underside lips of hoods, the inside of fender lips, doorjambs, the edges of a hood and fenders with the hood up, the edges of the decklid and the area of the body where the decklid weatherstripping seats, and all of the nooks and crannies of the wheels, including completely inside the lug recesses. Doing the part of the doors that is covered by the jambs on the bottom, back and front of the doors as well. I don't know if you said that you did the glass too, but getting completely in the corners without slobbering on the rubber weatherstripping takes a lot of skill too, unless you take time to mask. Do you take off the wheels and do the INSIDE or, the backside of the wheels as well? Being able to do the whole car without slobbering any product on any of the cars rubber trim anywhere is very impressive. It would be a pleasure to watch a man of your skill do your work.

I'm assuming this is sarcastic, if not my apologies. When I do a full detail I remove the wheels to clean and seal the barrels so that isn't any additional work for me when applying OC. Also when I apply a coating, polish, or wax I always have the doors/hood/trunk open to make sure that even inch of paint is addressed. There is no point in polishing a door but leaving the last 1/8 inch untouched b/c you were too lazy to open the door. So yes, I do all of that when I apply my coatings. I don't see how it's any different than apply a wax by hand. You apply it, and then take care of any high spots, just like you would apply a wax and then buff it off after it hazes. Now obviously it takes longer than a wax since you need to work on a much smaller section at a time, however it shouldn't be taking you hours to do this. If it does that is fine, however it doesn't HAVE to take you that long to do it.

As someone who is not in the detailing business, this thread was an entertaining read a couple days ago... first few pages. So take this as a newb or 3rd party response. I do make a living working on cars, just not detailing... I do some retail but mostly at wholesale accounts.

I can understand the good intentions that Flannigan has with his viewpoint, but it seems to me to he's painted into a corner and forced to defend against all argument. Having said that, I have a lot of respect for his attitude and honesty with the customer... and would be very happy to give him my business after reading the thread. But I don't see a problem charging more if this is truly a special product/service that lasts 2 years or more.

Thank you for making your point and having some class at the same time. I appreciate your input!

Ummm, yes it sorta does. My background is in high-volume detailing and my shop was actually capable and concentrated on completing 25-35 complete details per day, every day, every week, every month, every year. For well over 10 years. I’d say I’m pretty confident that if anyone can understand and perform a task in an efficient amount of time, that I’m certainly qualified to speak on it.

Wow talented AND humble. Sorry David, but now I don't trust what you think even more coming from a high volume shop. Now it's my turn to tell you what isn't possible. It ISN'T possible to PROPERLY detail 25-35 cars a day by yourself. Now if you were saying your shop did that with a bunch of helpers that’s one thing, but you didn't say that, I'm sure to try and make yourself look better. While I'm sure you are qualified to speak on topics of detailing, just because you have a lot of knowledge doesn't mean that you know it ALL or that you can do everything the BEST or FASTEST.

That’s what makes this coating different and why you should be charging a surplus for its application. It’s TOTALLY different than a sealant or wax. It requires a clean surface to promote the best possible adhesion, therefore creating the best possible results. Not only does the surface need to be clean, bare AND dry, it should also be corrected to the best possible level. That way you’re applying this true sacrificial barrier to the absolute best possible substrate. If not, you’re locking in those flaws thus creating an inferior product. And if you’re polishing, that means the polishing solvents and oils as well as the dust/debris must also be stripped from the surface prior to application. That requires an APC, strong chemical wash or alcohol decontamination (or combination of them which I do). Also keeping in mind that when doing an alcohol wipe down, you’re not spreading the contaminants to other clean areas of the surface. This means constantly being aware of using a clean portion of the MF and constantly swapping out for a fresh one as needed. Again, all this takes time AND skill to be able to perform the best possible treatment. Rarely, if ever, do I (or anyone I know) go to that level to prep a surface for wax or sealant.




And you’re entitled to your *opinion*, but so is everyone else. And at this point, everyone feels it takes more than and hour and should be a premium priced service. So, I’ll stand by my statement too.

Thanks for educating me on things I already know and do. I DO that for each and every vehicle I work on. I feel that a clean surface should be the only surface any LSP/Coating should be applied to. So now it sounds like you are cutting corners on your regular details.

Obviously you would want to correct a car before you apply a coating, but that is a whole different price. That price for the correction should remain the same no matter what you are using to protect the paint at the end.

also just because people haven't posted in this thread doesn't mean no one else agrees with me. I have received several PMs from detailers I have respect for saying they agree with me, but don't want to get involved in a thread like this.

Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just wish you wouldn't come across like a know it all. I've been doing this for a very long time too, and I learn something new almost everyday whether it be from this forum, personal experience, or a friend. So maybe you should be a little more open minded and not come across like someone who THINKS they know it all.

I charge a premium and sleep at night just fine knowing that the dealerships around me charge 895+ dollars for an acrylic paint sealant that only last a year, although they warranty it for 5, they apply an inferior product and charge double what I do on a brand new vehicle, this product is unique and when applied properly which takes more then an hour deserves to be charged accordingly

You poked holes in your own argument by saying dealerships offer a warranty. It is a well know fact that dealership apply regular sealants on a car and then charge you out the rear for it. What you are paying for is the warranty. As long as you take your car back to the dealership for their annual or biannual inspections you will be able to have any defects fixed for free. Except most people don't read the fine print or forget about it. This is what the dealerships hope will happen. so yes that is shady too, however you are actually getting something for your money if you are willing to take the time to follow the instructions perfectly.

 

[jakesdad]

I remember Navin Johnson and another Opti product called the Opti-grab ..... We all know what happened there....

 

[Flash Gordon]

Does anyone know if the Cardinals play today

 

[Perfections]

You poked holes in your own argument by saying dealerships offer a warranty. It is a well know fact that dealership apply regular sealants on a car and then charge you out the rear for it. What you are paying for is the warranty. As long as you take your car back to the dealership for their annual or biannual inspections you will be able to have any defects fixed for free. Except most people don't read the fine print or forget about it. This is what the dealerships hope will happen. so yes that is shady too, however you are actually getting something for your money if you are willing to take the time to follow the instructions perfectly.[/QUOTE]

I was trying to address the original question, I'm sorry if you think im addressing you, but I am going to agree by the time I prep sol the exterior of a vehicle and apply this coating it takes me longer then an hour and I don't want people reading this thread to "think" you don't need to properly prep the surface before applying this kind of product. After reading some of your statements you are correct this is a very easy product to apply, but the steps leading up to that application need to be followed correctly and if your able to do that in an hour I commend you

 

[rwright]

As titled. Now that all these super sealants are popping up in the market, how do you guys charge? It is a no wax deal for 2 years so it brings down revenue for wash n wax services? What are you guys calling this service?

Basically charge what you want. Offer a warranty or don't. If it's a repeat customer, sell them on maintenance such as applying ReLoad or Aqua Wax or something similar for extra slickness. How you sell the service is up to you, we cannot tell you what is right or wrong. As for naming the service, that again is up to you. Explain to the customer the benefits of no waxing but also maintenance involved to keep the coating "fresh" so to say. Make sure you inform them that it is not an invincible shield that will keep the car from being scratched again, it's only a barrier against most pollutants. Best of luck to you.

 

[rwright]

Does anyone know if the Cardinals play today

Not sure but the White Sox play tonight @ 7:10pm , even though the Cardinals are having a better season .