Not happy with Griots/Menz result...

B

BLKZ06

New member
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
37
Reaction score
0
First off, I'm an expert with a rotary..just learning the D/A side of things.

I'm working on my new 2011 Black Z06..so I ordered up some nice goodies from Autogeek. No pics right now, but I may add some as I get info flowing in.

New Griots D/A, 5" backing plate, various 5" LC pads, Menzerna Power Finish, Menzerna Super Finish Nano, and some nice Microfiber cloths.

I also have numerous 3M products, DeWalt 849 Rotary with assorted 9" pads, etc.

I don't have any pics right now, but I started off with Power Finish and an Orange LC pad. The car was in a showroom and looking at it with my Halogen stand lights, I could see some faint to moderate "scratches/marring" but nothing too terrible. Mostly light scratches from washing/drying I assume..people leaning on it..etc.

Fired up the Griots on speed 4..The orange pad/Powergloss combo marred the paint..it actually looked worse than the original finish I started with.

I then tried another orange pad with 3M Swirl remover and that removed the marring, but didn't take out the original marring/scratching that I was trying to get out in the first place! Tried again with 3M, and used speed 5..nice shine but didn't remove any original marring. I made at least 6 medium speed passed in a up/down motion on the test panel.

Anyways..I finally gave up and grabbed the rotary with a black pad, 1000 rpms, and 3M swirl remover..this removed all the marring and scratching and left a slick finish, but now I have some holograming. Not worried about that.

It looks like I am able to get a really nice finish with a white or black pad, the Griots on speed 4 and the super Nano finish after using the rotary on the marred areas.

Honestly, I am a little disappointed. The Griots is a FINE machine..lots of power, lots of rotation..but the Menzerna Power Gloss is terrible IMO. Either that or It doesn't like the orange pad, which goes against any results I've seen over in the Show and Shine section. I also think the paint on my Vette is a little soft..it didn't take much rotary power to get the marring out.

Not sure I am using everything to its full benefit..but to be honest, using a D/A with numerous pads and different compounds shouldn't be that difficult.

Any tips or pointers would be appreciated!
 
You might try polishing at 5 or 6. Higher speeds are typcially used with a DA for polishing, 4 is a little low. Also, keep the pad flat, slow arm movement, do 6 - 8 section passes, etc. Many users report hazing and micro-marring from polishing at too low a speed and moving the DA too rapidly across the surface.
 
I only use speed 4 for cleaning my pads on the fly

for corrections, use speed 5 or 5.5

Power finish on a DA for a vette probably won't be as quick or effective as PF with the rotary.

I'd save the GG6 for finish polishing only if I had both machines available to me...
 
Power Gloss is a very aggressive compound that will require two proceeding steps to finish out properly. It's really geared for a rotary as well and speed 4 is too low for the DA. The 3M swirl remover can fill like crazy too so I'd double check your work with that stuff. Sounds like you'd be better off trying some SIP or Power Finish on an orange/white pad and following it up with PO85RD on a black pad.


Edit: You call out both Power Finish and Power Gloss in your post...which did you use?
 
RaskyR1 said:
Power Gloss is a very aggressive compound that will require two proceeding steps to finish out properly. It's really geared for a rotary as well and speed 4 is too low for the DA. The 3M swirl remover can fill like crazy too so I'd double check your work with that stuff. Sounds like you'd be better off trying some SIP or Power Finish on an orange/white pad and following it up with PO85RD on a black pad.


Edit: You call out both Power Finish and Power Gloss in your post...which did you use?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, and sorry for the confusion.

I'm looking back thru my order, and I believe I either ordered the wrong stuff, or I was sent the wrong stuff.

I have written down PO203..but the bottle I have "looks" like S34A..which is for removing 1500 grit scratches.

The other bottle is Super Finish PO106A.

I see now I was using too low a speed for the D/A- but would 2 clicks make THAT much of a difference?

Did I buy the wrong stuff?

I thought about the PO85RD...
 
BLKZ06 said:
Thanks for the reply, and sorry for the confusion.

I'm looking back thru my order, and I believe I either ordered the wrong stuff, or I was sent the wrong stuff.

I have written down PO203..but the bottle I have "looks" like S34A..which is for removing 1500 grit scratches.

The other bottle is Super Finish PO106A.

I see now I was using too low a speed for the D/A- but would 2 clicks make THAT much of a difference?

Did I buy the wrong stuff?

I thought about the PO85RD...
Click to expand...

Yes, 2 clicks does make that much of a difference. It makes a HUGE difference.

Check the Menz chart here: Menzerna Polishing Compounds Products, Menzerna FMJ, menzerna polishes, menzerna car polish, menzerna nano polish, menzerna final polish, menzerna. If you got S34A, that's their heaviest compound (Powergloss). It's no wonder that you got marring. It probably would have marred with the "proper" speed.
 
HeavyMetal said:
Yes, 2 clicks does make that much of a difference. It makes a HUGE difference.

Check the Menz chart here: Menzerna Polishing Compounds Products, Menzerna FMJ, menzerna polishes, menzerna car polish, menzerna nano polish, menzerna final polish, menzerna. If you got S34A, that's their heaviest compound (Powergloss). It's no wonder that you got marring. It probably would have marred with the "proper" speed.
Click to expand...

Thanks Heavy..I think you are right..I believe I have the wrong stuff, no matter who's fault it is.

Now, the big question is..what do I need? the PO85RD? PO83?

Or the PO203??

I have some light hazing/marks in the car finish, mostly on the sides, and my preference is to not take a rotary to every inch of the car.
 
Would you be willing to try trapping a piece of microfiber in between the dual action polisher and the paint with your p0106fa?

Mist the microfiber with some distilled water, use moderate pressure.
 
GM has some of the hardest clear out there and from what I understand they use the "hardest of the hard" on the Vettes. Personally, I'd go with the Meg's Ultimate Compound as I've had great success with that on GM's. It's cheap and it finishes nearly LSP ready using an LC flat orange pad. BobbyG has that sick looking yellow C5 and he prefers SIP. PM him and see which he'd recommend.

Follow up with the 106 you got on a flat grey/black pad, and your baby will shine. Since it's a Vette, I would go the final step and jewel with Menz PO85RD on a flat grey/black or blue pad.

What are you gonna use for your LSP? I've used quite a few waxes and tried a couple sealants. I do like Menz Power Lock topped with Collinite 845 (and a coat Pinnacle Souveran for when you really want it to shine). Or if you don't want to polish and wax that often, I did do my wife's Obsidian Black Lexus with CQuartz/ReLoad. I like it so much I'm doing my RAV4 next spring. These new "super sealants" shed dirt and water so effectively the car simply doesn't get that dirty - a quick no-rinse wash every couple of weeks and some QD in between keeps it looking pristine. Plus the super sealants do prevent light scratching and look slick as hell. The only caveat I'll throw in is that CQ has a very hard-glossy look. Some don't like that; on dark colors I definitely do.
 
rfinkle2 said:
Would you be willing to try trapping a piece of microfiber in between the dual action polisher and the paint with your p0106fa?

Mist the microfiber with some distilled water, use moderate pressure.
Click to expand...


Sure..I can try that!
 
HeavyMetal said:
GM has some of the hardest clear out there and from what I understand they use the "hardest of the hard" on the Vettes. Personally, I'd go with the Meg's Ultimate Compound as I've had great success with that on GM's. It's cheap and it finishes nearly LSP ready using an LC flat orange pad. BobbyG has that sick looking yellow C5 and he prefers SIP. PM him and see which he'd recommend.

Follow up with the 106 you got on a flat grey/black pad, and your baby will shine. Since it's a Vette, I would go the final step and jewel with Menz PO85RD on a flat grey/black or blue pad.

What are you gonna use for your LSP? I've used quite a few waxes and tried a couple sealants. I do like Menz Power Lock topped with Collinite 845 (and a coat Pinnacle Souveran for when you really want it to shine). Or if you don't want to polish and wax that often, I did do my wife's Obsidian Black Lexus with CQuartz/ReLoad. I like it so much I'm doing my RAV4 next spring. These new "super sealants" shed dirt and water so effectively the car simply doesn't get that dirty - a quick no-rinse wash every couple of weeks and some QD in between keeps it looking pristine. Plus the super sealants do prevent light scratching and look slick as hell. The only caveat I'll throw in is that CQ has a very hard-glossy look. Some don't like that; on dark colors I definitely do.
Click to expand...

I don't find the clear hard at all on my Vette, unless it just SO HARD that the markings on the car were simply laying on the surface. I literally took 15 seconds to remove the light scratching using 3M swirl remover and a black pad on my 849.They are gone..not filled in, but GONE.

I have Pinnacle Souveran I'm going to use. I have used the Colinite and I really like it. I have had great oooo's and awwww's using the Souveran on black, so I generally stay with that.

I appreciate the recommendation on the Megs..but to be honest its just not my favorite stuff. I normally try to stay with 3M or Menz if possible.

I'm wondering if I should go Menz SIP, then use the 106 and 85 like you suggested?

Looking at the chart..it shows that the 106 has more "gloss" than the 85???
 
BLKZ06 said:
I don't find the clear hard at all on my Vette, unless it just SO HARD that the markings on the car were simply laying on the surface. I literally took 15 seconds to remove the light scratching using 3M swirl remover and a black pad on my 849.They are gone..not filled in, but GONE.

I have Pinnacle Souveran I'm going to use. I have used the Colinite and I really like it. I have had great oooo's and awwww's using the Souveran on black, so I generally stay with that.

I appreciate the recommendation on the Megs..but to be honest its just not my favorite stuff. I normally try to stay with 3M or Menz if possible.

I'm wondering if I should go Menz SIP, then use the 106 and 85 like you suggested?

Looking at the chart..it shows that the 106 has more "gloss" than the 85???
Click to expand...

Hey, then go with the SIP. I asked BobbyG to chime in on this too. And yeah, I'd follow with 106FA and then 85RD. I use the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze, which is made by Menz and their "version" of 106FA. I got it BOGO so it was cheaper than going Menz line.

Not sure which chart you're looking at, but the one on AG shows 106FA and 85RD both having a gloss of 5. Are you sure you're not looking at PO85U? That's their Final Polish. The stuff you want is their PO85RD Polish.
 
BLKZ06 said:
First off, I'm an expert with a rotary

Anyways..I finally gave up and grabbed the rotary with a black pad, 1000 rpms, and 3M swirl remover..this removed all the marring and scratching and left a slick finish, but now I have some holograming. Not worried about that.
Click to expand...

So why not switch to a less aggressive polish and a finishing pad on the rotary, an "expert" should be able to finish hologram free with a machine...

Also, You say you used a black pad, which brand? And not to question your technique or abilities but why run the machine at such a low RPM for a product like 3M Swirl Remover? Just curious...
 
An expert with a rotary would just finish the paint down with it. I am in for pics and sun shot.
 
trerc said:
So why not switch to a less aggressive polish and a finishing pad on the rotary, an "expert" should be able to finish hologram free with a machine...

Also, You say you used a black pad, which brand? And not to question your technique or abilities but why run the machine at such a low RPM for a product like 3M Swirl Remover? Just curious...
Click to expand...

Because thats all the RPM's I needed to remove the defect. The idea is to not heat up the paint- less is better. You want just enough heat to soften the paint so that the polish works to 100% of its cutting ability..then back off the speed so that the heat dissappates and the remaining abrasives smooth the paint.

I'm also using Buff and Shine pads, along with 3M waffle pads.

Not sure if I should be offended by your little "expert" snippet- but I will point out that I didn't claim to try to finish out the paint with my rotary, did I?

I removed the defects, then switched to the Griots to polish down the paint. I'm sure I could remove holograms, trails, whatever with the rotary because I've done it for 12 years..but anyone familiar with a rotary knows what a tough, tiring job that can be-esp on dark colors.

Thats another reason for the D/A madness these days.
 
HeavyMetal said:
Hey, then go with the SIP. I asked BobbyG to chime in on this too. And yeah, I'd follow with 106FA and then 85RD. I use the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze, which is made by Menz and their "version" of 106FA. I got it BOGO so it was cheaper than going Menz line.

Not sure which chart you're looking at, but the one on AG shows 106FA and 85RD both having a gloss of 5. Are you sure you're not looking at PO85U? That's their Final Polish. The stuff you want is their PO85RD Polish.
Click to expand...

Ahhh..got ya.

I probably looked at the wrong polish.

Menz is getting like 3M..I remember the good ole days when 3M had about 6-8 polishes and 2-3 pads.

Now they have 6-8 swirl removers, 4-5 final polishes, and about 10 different buffing pads.

:xyxthumbs:
 
For a Vette in ok to good shape, SIP and 085rd from Menzerna is all thats needed with a DA. Well that and some Hydro-tech pads.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top