Blackfire WD + Fuzion = Polymer Overkill??

courtdale

courtdale

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I understand the basics of polymer products. What I don't know is if it redundant putting one polymer product on top of another. Is the molecular action still possible if one layer of polymer is already covering the paint? My guess was redundant, but then I had seen people posting that they like to layer their seals.

I'm currently using BF Wet Diamond as my LSP, pretty much ignoring the wax market. I am going to break down and order some wax soon though and have been eyeing up WG's Fuzion. I'd like to try it, but I'm not going to give up my BFWD. Whatever I get would have to be used in conjunction with my BF, and yes, I have also been looking at their wax (Midnight Sun?)as well.
 
I'd go with the Midnight Sun, I have never used it but the BFWD MS combo gets rave reviews! I don't think it's overkill if that's the look you want and you like to bring out the best in your car.
 
Buckskincolt said:
I'd go with the Midnight Sun, I have never used it but the BFWD MS combo gets rave reviews! I don't think it's overkill if that's the look you want and you like to bring out the best in your car.
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I should have mentioned the alternative. While the look might be nice, the price in polymer waxes probably isn't worth it if the polymers aren't being put to use. If that is the case I was leaning more towards just topping with something more basic like a Collinite 845.

I know the Fire and Ice practice with Blackfire gets a lot of praise, but if the polymers aren't being used, I'm not spending the $$.
 
courtdale said:
I should have mentioned the alternative. While the look might be nice, the price in polymer waxes probably isn't worth it if the polymers aren't being put to use. If that is the case I was leaning more towards just topping with something more basic like a Collinite 845.

I know the Fire and Ice practice with Blackfire gets a lot of praise, but if the polymers aren't being used, I'm not spending the $$.
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My thought would be that the polymers are being used as long as you allow the first coat of sealant to completely cure before the second coat of the hybrid. A very reasonably priced hybrid is DP Max Wax. I don't think is as durable as some of the other high end HB waxes but it's really nice to use and leaves an awesome deep wet look.
I think the key to get the full durability of any polymer layering is to be sure of the complete cure of one coat before topping with another. I'm no chemist so take it for what it's worth.
 
courtdale said:
I should have mentioned the alternative. While the look might be nice, the price in polymer waxes probably isn't worth it if the polymers aren't being put to use. If that is the case I was leaning more towards just topping with something more basic like a Collinite 845.

I know the Fire and Ice practice with Blackfire gets a lot of praise, but if the polymers aren't being used, I'm not spending the $$.
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While the more expensive polymers work well and look great, 845 is the go to for many people because it does look good and has longevity. Applying them on top of each other wouldn't/shouldn't cause issues. I usually put a coat or two of Menzerna Powerlock sealant on then a coat of wax whether it be 845, 915, or Pinnacle's liquid souveran.
 
quick question, hope its not too of topic... is blackfire really hard to apply by hand? Anyone have any experience with it and any good results? Or are most of you doing it by machine?
 
adamfox said:
quick question, hope its not too of topic... is blackfire really hard to apply by hand? Anyone have any experience with it and any good results? Or are most of you doing it by machine?
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If you're asking about Wet Diamond, I've done both. Machine and hand are equally easy to apply and remove. Loved the results both times. If you were talking about the wax, not sure.
 
adamfox said:
quick question, hope its not too of topic... is blackfire really hard to apply by hand? Anyone have any experience with it and any good results? Or are most of you doing it by machine?
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I applied BFWD by hand this weekend and it can be done. The biggest problem I had was applying it in a thin layer. Next time I will use a black pad & the PC for application.
 
Overkill is a relative term. Many including myself have layered Fuzion over BFWD with good success. Some have even gones as fars a two coats of Fuzion.

Whatever floats your boat and gives you that warm fuzzy feeling is what you should do. Not being a chemist I cannot tell you how the molecular bonds will interact with each product. However, I've been absolutely blown away at what BFWD, WGPS, or Collinite 845 has done as a LSP with no toppers!


courtdale said:
I understand the basics of polymer products. What I don't know is if it redundant putting one polymer product on top of another. Is the molecular action still possible if one layer of polymer is already covering the paint? My guess was redundant, but then I had seen people posting that they like to layer their seals.

I'm currently using BF Wet Diamond as my LSP, pretty much ignoring the wax market. I am going to break down and order some wax soon though and have been eyeing up WG's Fuzion. I'd like to try it, but I'm not going to give up my BFWD. Whatever I get would have to be used in conjunction with my BF, and yes, I have also been looking at their wax (Midnight Sun?)as well.
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Adding a carnauba or a carnauba+ to BFWD adds to the depth and slicknness of the product. I've used Collinite 845 and Midnight Sun. They both work well. I've applied BFWD by hand and with a Flex. I can't tell the difference in appearance between the two.
 
Well after reading the responses, what I think I will do is pass on the hybrids/polymers and just shoot for a higher quality basic carnuba like a Dodo Supernatural. They offer that in a small size so I won't have to break the bank to play with it. I'll top the Wet Diamond with that and see how it goes.
 
Blackfire WD looks deep and wet without any carnauba topper.

I've topped BFWD with a few waxes including Midnight Sun and Fuzion and I could not tell a difference in looks. Also, felt like I lost a little slickness.

All I can say is try it and see what you think.
 
Be careful of the supernatural because I have heard of sweating issues after using the wax. I'm not saying it's a bad wax because I have a big selection of DODO products but if it were me I would use the BFMS wax. I have done the fire over ice method on my Frontier and it's worth the time and effort.
 
I know there's be lots of talk about the BFWD/BFMS combo "made to work together" but I just got around to trying it.

The Wet-Ice Over Fire combo has a totally different finished look! It's VERY deep and it's like looking in a mirror.
The BFMS did take away some of the shiny/slick of just the BFWD by itself but the finished combo look is awesome.
It was interesting watching the "look" of the paint change from a prepped finish to BFWD to the BFWD/BFMS combo.
I would highly recommend using this combo as they say "Blackfire - Don't just turn heads, create whiplash!"

This combo has a very stunning unique look and well worth the time and effort!
 
courtdale said:
Well after reading the responses, what I think I will do is pass on the hybrids/polymers and just shoot for a higher quality basic carnuba like a Dodo Supernatural. They offer that in a small size so I won't have to break the bank to play with it. I'll top the Wet Diamond with that and see how it goes.
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Edit

Never mind: (I see you've made your decision)

:)

Bob
 
merlin said:
The Wet-Ice Over Fire combo has a totally different finished look! It's VERY deep and it's like looking in a mirror.
The BFMS did take away some of the shiny/slick of just the BFWD by itself but the finished combo look is awesome.
It was interesting watching the "look" of the paint change from a prepped finish to BFWD to the BFWD/BFMS combo.!
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Well explained. I always end up wondering if I should have left it with the more shiny slick look of just the BFWD though..
 
I layer ultima PG and get good results. I have done both cars, a painted boat and outboard motor cowls. I think the 2nd coat of anything is to make sure you got any missed spots of the first coat. But the Ultima looks deeper and more candy-like with the 3rd coat - on every vehicle and item mentioned above. My recipe is two coats 45 min apart and then a third coat 24 hours later.

You can see some of the candy like appearance here on my outboard cowl. It really does look deep on coat #3:
refelction.jpg
 
I did the BFWD and BFMS combo and thought it was great. I liked the Look of BFWD with Fuzion did lose some slickness though. I did the BFWD and Souveran and the Black just ripples. It is the best look I have ever had on the car. I always use BFWD as the sealant and like to try differant toppers.
 
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