HT Cyan falling apart after 1 use - what am I doing wrong?

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ethereal

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Hi everyone,

I just bought a Griots 6" ROP and some LC Hydro-tech low-profile pads for it. I was out putting them to use last night working on a BMW (very hard paint) and noticed that after about 1/4th of the car the hydro-tech pad was starting to tear.

I work very slowly and carefully, and while I haven't buffed out 1000 cars like some of the members here, I am confident I am using proper technique. Here is the procedure I follow:

Products:
Griots Garage 6" ROP with Lake Country 5.5" Backing Plate
HT Cyan 5.5" Low Profile Pad
Meguiars Ultimate Compound

Method:
- Prime Pad with UC
- Place UC in a thin ring along the outside of the pad
- Put down onto paint, run machine on speed 5
- Working in approximately 20x20" areas, and make 6-8 passes over these sections.

After each section I clean the pad as best as I can (which from the looks of it is pretty well). I wrap my finger around a microfiber towel and press it into the pad while running the machine on speed 4 (any faster and it hurts my finger). This seems to really clear out all the spent product out of the pad. I tried with a terry cloth as Mike Phillips suggested but my terrys were just lint machines so I went to some microfibers.

After doing the hood and the front bumper with the same pad, I removed it from the backing plate (very gently, as the new LC backing plate has VERY strong velcro), this is what I found starting to happen on the pad:

cyan1.jpg


cyan2.jpg


I do have 2 more cyan pads that I haven't used yet, and was planning on using them for the rest of the car I'm working on, but I would like to ascertain if there is a flaw in my technique that is causing excess pad wear before I do.

Obviously it's not completely ruined yet, but if this wear continues this pad is going to be done for after 1-2 cars. I've done a few cars with a PC7424 and Meguiars Soft Buff pads and those still look brand new -- I work very carefully and methodically. If this is the normal lifespan of these pads unfortunately I will have to look elsewhere, as my detailing dollars are limited as a college student.
 
Looks to be too much pressure from the pictures. Some pads just do this on the sides no matter how careful you are. It doesn't affect the performance.
 
IOMCAMARO said:
Looks to be too much pressure from the pictures. Some pads just do this on the sides no matter how careful you are. It doesn't affect the performance.
Click to expand...

Good to know, I really don't feel like I was putting a whole lot of downward pressure on the machine, especially on the vertical surfaces. This car has very hard paint compared to some others that I have worked on, so I suppose I will need to expect some increased wear on the pad given the more difficult nature of the correction process.
 
Cyan pads do wear quicker than say an orange pad, but they do provide more cut than an orange pad. They are a very good pad for the compounding process, but you just need more of them as to do tend to wear quickly as compared to orange. Yours at this stage is hardly showing any wear. I would lose the idea of cleaning with an MF.

Get hold of a proper pad cleaning brush (even a tooth brush would be better than using an MF) and make sure you clean the pad after every section. In other words every time you put the machine down, you clean the pad before you apply more compound. Just lightly run the pad brush over the surface of the pad at no more the speed 2. You'll be amazed at how much crud flys off the pad and proper cleaning will also prolong the life of the pad.

I'd also move up to M105 unless you want to spend all day playing around with UC, which just means more wear on the pad.

I really don't feel like I was putting a whole lot of downward pressure on the machine
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From the look of that pad you aren't using too much pressure. You need to use pressure to cut. No pressure - no cut.
 
Ok I'm back at it again today I will grab an old toothbrush to use. Honestly I think what was happening was I was sticking my finger wrapped in a microfber into the center of the pad and I think that was chewing it up very quickly. I stopped doing that and now I've been just blotting the old product off with a terry washcloth and the pad seems to be staying much healthier.
 
The ultimate compound is working just fine for me honestly, it's taking out the swirls and leaving a nice glassy finish on my silver paint:

hood.jpg
 
The wear in the center of the pad was from my cleaning method, I have discontinued that and the other pad is holding up much, much better. I do really like these pads, they don't become saturated as easily and I'm getting a great work time with Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish.

Update after polish:
hood2.jpg
 
ethereal said:
The wear in the center of the pad was from my cleaning method, I have discontinued that and the other pad is holding up much, much better. I do really like these pads, they don't become saturated as easily and I'm getting a great work time with Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish.

Update after polish:
hood2.jpg
Click to expand...
Looks good! Now the chord on the paint:nomore::xyxthumbs:
 
I set the cord there with love :)

Done! Waxed with ultimate wax:

hood3.jpg
 
With due respect why not just buy the correct tool for the job. It is not as though a pad cleaning brush is an expensive tool.
 
I have considered a pad cleaning brush, but I've always stayed away from it for a few reasons:

-- Mike Phillips suggests it doesn't work as well on a DA as it does on a rotary

-- A few members on MOL were reporting that using a pad brush was really chewing up their pads

My newest method of choice is a bit of a compromise -- I have been cleaning on the fly with a terry towel after each application of product to the car. I do about 4 sections around 20x20" then I just run inside quick and wash the pads out with some APC+. The product comes right out of them, I give them a quick dry by squeezing them inside of a waffle weave and the pads are like brand new in less than 10 minutes. It's not as fast as having a pad washer, but it's a lot cheaper and it beats working with saturated pads.
 
imo the pad conditioning brush sold on AG seems a bit "stiff bristled" judging from how short the bristles are, I use a cheapo plastic "wire" brush comes in a 3 pack with plastic bristled,brass,and a steel wire brush...works great kicks the polish/compound out of the pad and dont gouge foam like i fear the pad conditioning brush will do and from what i seen in a few posts....i also have another brush which is way soft i made it out of a single row bristle brush from a bissel upholstery attachment and a bent paint brush handle(i use this one to scrub them clean when washing them). just my method however!.

p.s if you have a grit guard you could cut down a bucket so the pad is just barely submerged and have room for the polisher to fit and use that as a pad washer. i believe someone here uses a grit guard like that to clean his pads....can also dry pads on the grit guard....
 
I have considered a pad cleaning brush, but I've always stayed away from it for a few reasons:

-- Mike Phillips suggests it doesn't work as well on a DA as it does on a rotary

-- A few members on MOL were reporting that using a pad brush was really chewing up their pads
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but I find the above just totally ridiculous.

Whether the above statements are true or not is totally irrelevant. I can't say I give a dam as to who has said what. The most important point of perfection finishing is too work as clean as possible and that means clean pads and change them often. I don't care who you are or what your qualifications are, it is impossible to produce a perfect finish if a pad still contains contaminants from previous compounding/polishing.

Observe the simple rule of never putting the polisher down (be it rotary or DA) without first cleaning the pad. In other words you should never apply more product without cleaning the pad. The same rule applies whether you are compounding with something like M105 or finishing with 85RD.

The technique or method doesn't change with either rotary or DA. Just gently lay the pad brush across the pad drawing the brush from the the centre of the pad to the outside edge with the rotary at its lowest speed or a DA at no more than speed 2. Repeat until no more crud flies off. There could not be a simpler procedure - takes about 5 - 10 secs each time.

If someone has reported that they damaged a pad by using a pad brush such as you would find here Foam Pad Conditioning Brush cleans and reconditions foam and wool pads on the buffer. remove excess caked wax and polish from buffing pads. then I'd have to say they are just totally incompetent and aren't capable of reading and comprehending simple instructions whether they are on MOL or any other detailing forum.

The $13 pad brush above will last for years, your pads will last a far shorter period, but regular use of the above pad brush will prolong that period.
 
wow dude no need to act like that over someone not wanting to use the pad brush, not everyone has a disposable income like some do. everyone has their own way of doing things there is nothing set in stone saying you HAVE to use a pad cleaning brush, any brush that is not way too soft will kick out spent/dried product just because its not the same exact thing don't mean it does not work. me personaly i like to have my pads last as long as possible and if anyone feels like the brush is too hard or can mess with pads so be it, there not your pads, and just using a brush does not clean the pads 100% the brush just kicks off spent/caked product....im willing to bet money that you could tell a difference in the texture of the pad of using a pad conditioning brush vs say a tooth brush or something softer bristled, everyone has their own opinion also. the way you came off seemed very rude and uncalled for..and just for a fyi theres posts on AG about people using the brush correctly and it looks like someone took some 60grit sand paper to their pad. imo you mess with the texture of the pad you loose effectiveness..
 
The pad brush is a little bit stiff in my opinion. I really only use it if I am compound a vehicle with some oxidation and need to brush it off the pad after doing a section.
 
I grabbed a pad cleaning brush from the neighbor up the street last night (same one AG sells) and I wasn't too impressed with the process. As Mike Phillips said, the DA stops rotating when you apply pressure with the brush. I thought the terry towel method got the pad much cleaner.
 
gmck said:
I'm sorry, but I find the above just totally ridiculous.

Whether the above statements are true or not is totally irrelevant. I can't say I give a dam as to who has said what. The most important point of perfection finishing is too work as clean as possible and that means clean pads and change them often. I don't care who you are or what your qualifications are, it is impossible to produce a perfect finish if a pad still contains contaminants from previous compounding/polishing.

Observe the simple rule of never putting the polisher down (be it
rotary or DA) without first cleaning the pad. In other words you should never apply more product without cleaning the pad. The same rule applies whether you are compounding with something like M105 or finishing with 85RD.

The technique or method doesn't change with either rotary or DA. Just gently lay the pad brush across the pad drawing the brush from the the centre of the pad to the outside edge with the rotary at its lowest speed or a DA at no more than speed 2. Repeat until no more crud flies off. There could not be a simpler procedure - takes about 5 - 10 secs each time.

If someone has reported that they damaged a pad by using a pad brush such as you would find here Foam Pad Conditioning Brush cleans and reconditions foam and wool pads on the buffer. remove excess caked wax and polish from buffing pads. then I'd have to say they are just totally incompetent and aren't capable of reading and comprehending simple instructions whether they are on MOL or any other detailing forum.

The $13 pad brush above will last for years, your pads will last a far shorter period, but regular use of the above pad brush will prolong that period.
Click to expand...
I think a post like this is what's shows incompetency!
There are many ways to do something none of which are right or wrong. Cleaning a pad on the fly with a cotton cloth ..... Right, cleaning a pad with a brush ..... Right, cleaning a pas with a pad washer ..... Right. To call someone incompetent for not using the same method you do is arrogant to say the least.

I didn't find the brush method on HT pads to be the best, the foam on these pads seems to be a bit more fragile And prone to damage from the brush ..... The Meg microfiber pads are totally a different story and the brush works well. Now I read where folks are using a bug sponge for cleaning the MF pads ..... Is that right or wrong or a sign of incompetence? NO! Fact is I'm going to try it!

I use a pad washer for HT pads and clean them on the fly with a towel between washing. No everyone has or wants a pad washer and personally I find that a towel works very well until the pads get saturated, then it's time to wash or trade out. I like to wash them on the pad washer then trade them out to keep the cleanest freshest pad working I can.:buffing:
 
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