AIO for minor holograms.

I'm not trying to argue a point by any means by what I'm going to say here. Yesterday I did a black Challenger that I finished with 205 and a yellow soft-buff pad. I gave it a IPA wipe down and while in the sun I saw no holograms. Maybe this was a once in a lifetime deal. I started thinking last night that it also may have been because the paint is a metallic paint and that help to hide any light holograms there may have been. The paint was brilliant black pearl.

This thread was by no means a thread telling people that I acheived a hologram free paint job ending with a rotary. It was a thread asking if there is a AIO product that will eliminate light holograms the rotary left behind. Of course to apply the AIO I would be using a orbital

PS I followed up with an orbital to 100% 'insure' I had no holograms on the challenger too.
 
ShineTimeDetail said:
I'm not trying to argue a point by any means by what I'm going to say here.

Yesterday I did a black Challenger that I finished with 205 and a yellow soft-buff pad. I gave it a IPA wipe down and while in the sun I saw no holograms.
Click to expand...


Completely possible and black shows everything once any fillers, oils, wax or paint sealant has been removed.

You're experience makes my point that paints or more specifically paint systems are different.

Paint systems are always changing too and there's no easy way to know if and when Chrysler or ANY car manufacture switches on the assembly line to a new paint system. Just another reason to always test each car you work on if you've never worked on that specific car previously.


Thanks for the follow up!


:xyxthumbs:
 
Hoytman said:
First let me say I have little experience with a rotory. I'm virtually a newbie.

With so many variables, and knowing of those variables, how can one know which of them caused a paint surface to look less than spectacular? No less than 6 variables were mentioned plus an additional etc., etc., etc. Huh?

A person makes a correction, so you think, and it doesn't work. Then what? Make two simultaneious changes and hope for a better turn out? If you made two, or more simultaneous changes to get that perfect finish, how can anyone 100% reliably say which of the corrections made the difference?

I see this no different than any other problem in life, or a job. Work with one variable at a time.

It would make sense that if you know what caused it, you should know how to prevent it in the first place. A DA seems almost full-proof in this regard.
Click to expand...

Well certainly the argument between what is easier/better to use...a DA, or a rotary? I wouldn't argue with you that the answer would be a DA. Yes, a DA is sort of the fool proof way to get it done. Which is why most people choose this tool. Which is completely fine.

But, when you've detailed long enough...you learn to appreciate the positives for both tools, and most likely develop a need for both. I have certain products I only use with a rotary. I have certain products I only use with a DA. I have products that I use with both, but with different intentions.

I have particular services that require a rotary, where as a DA IMO makes the job more time consuming. Then again, I also have the opposite situation where a DA most certainly is the tool for the job.

What your confusion was with what I said...I'm not sure. What I said was pretty straight forward. There are many variables that can cause an imperfect finish...especially with a rotary due to it's aggressiveness. Yes, I listed maybe 6 with some etc's on top. There's many reasons mistakes happen.

While there are lots of mistakes to be made...they are easily avoided with proper technique, and simple rules. Those rules I believe anyone can follow, and have just as much successs with a rotary as a DA. This is why most professional detailers have both tools, and continue to use both tools. I think any professional detailer can perform regardless of what tool you hand them.
 
Kristopher1129 said:
Well certainly the argument between what is easier/better to use...a DA, or a rotary? I wouldn't argue with you that the answer would be a DA. Yes, a DA is sort of the fool proof way to get it done. Which is why most people choose this tool. Which is completely fine.

But, when you've detailed long enough...you learn to appreciate the positives for both tools, and most likely develop a need for both. I have certain products I only use with a rotary. I have certain products I only use with a DA. I have products that I use with both, but with different intentions.

I have particular services that require a rotary, where as a DA IMO makes the job more time consuming. Then again, I also have the opposite situation where a DA most certainly is the tool for the job.

What your confusion was with what I said...I'm not sure. What I said was pretty straight forward. There are many variables that can cause an imperfect finish...especially with a rotary due to it's aggressiveness. Yes, I listed maybe 6 with some etc's on top. There's many reasons mistakes happen.

While there are lots of mistakes to be made...they are easily avoided with proper technique, and simple rules. Those rules I believe anyone can follow, and have just as much successs with a rotary as a DA. This is why most professional detailers have both tools, and continue to use both tools. I think any professional detailer can perform regardless of what tool you hand them.
Click to expand...


I understand your comments here, I just meant that the other comments, i.e. variables you mentioned are out of reach from a knowledge perspective for newbies. In other words without years of experience how is a person to know what caused the bad turn out with the rotory, unless someone with knowledge is guiding them? Even then how do you know which variable, or set of variables caused the issues? It may be harder to explain than I realize.
 
Hoytman said:
I understand your comments here, I just meant that the other comments, i.e. variables you mentioned are out of reach from a knowledge perspective for newbies. In other words without years of experience how is a person to know what caused the bad turn out with the rotory, unless someone with knowledge is guiding them? Even then how do you know which variable, or set of variables caused the issues? It may be harder to explain than I realize.
Click to expand...

I gotcha. Anytime someone asks me how to get started...I would always point them towards a DA, and a combo of products. It's just easier all the way around.

At the same time...the same mistakes can be made with a DA a lot of times. Rotaries are just more powerful, and have much more of a learning curve to control correctly IMO.

I agree with you...for a newbie to just pick up a rotary without guidance would be kind of tough. Then again...there's always AGO, ha. :xyxthumbs:
 
Kristopher1129 said:
I agree with you...for a newbie to just pick up a rotary without guidance would be kind of tough. Then again...there's always AGO, ha.
Click to expand...

My first buffer experience was a good one... considering I was a complete newbie to machine buffing.

I painted a car white lacquer with blue pearl in about 8 coats of lacquer clear, in my opinion, for my first paint job it came out pretty good. Not having a clue as to what to do next I asked a local custom car painter and he told me to sand it and then buff it, that was as detailed as his instructions would get.

Sand it and buff it.

So I bought some #1500 and #2000 grit wet/dry paper and sanded the entire car down. As I sanded I saw the concrete floor turn a very pretty pearlescent blue with all the paint slurry running off the car onto the floor as I sanded.

Next I went to the local tool rental store, "Snell Rental" and rented a rotary buffer. This was a Dinosaur from the 1960's and it had a wool pad on it that looked like it was from the 1960's and had seen a thousand cars. Back then I didn't know or think to purchase a new wool pad I just used what was already attached to the buffer.

The rental store sold one compound, that's it, no polishes or any options, just something in a quart container, the guy behind the counter told me it was "good stuff", so I bought a quart to go with the buffer.

I then proceeded to buff out the car to remove my sanding marks.

Back then I didn't know the difference between a swirl and a squirrel, all I know was the car started out shiny, I sanded it flat and made the paint dull, then I buffed out the paint and made it shiny again.

In my eyes it looked GREAT!

I returned the buffer and drove the car with it's brand new shiny pearl white paint job. My guess is the car was completely swirled out with holograms!

But I didn't know any better and no one around me said anything otherwise. That's just how thing use to be done. Remember this was probably 1980 or 1981, 20 years before vBulletin would be released to become what we all know as a "discussion forum".

Point being is you can start out with a rotary buffer but I wouldn't recommend learning on anything that's important to you. Instead, read, watch videos and then find either a car that no one cares about or get a hood out of a wrecking yard or from a body shop and practice.

Practice makes perfect.

I am in the camp that recommends starting with an easier tool to master if you're making the step up from working by hand to working by machine.

This would be one of these,

DA Polisher
Flex 3401
Cyclo

Then after you master one or all of the above, move onto the rotary buffer.

And if you get a chance to go to any type of detailing class with a person who has a good name in this industry, by all means sign-up for the class and go to it ready and expecting to learn.


:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
My first buffer experience was a good one... considering I was a complete newbie to machine buffing.

I painted a car white lacquer with blue pearl in about 8 coats of lacquer clear, in my opinion, for my first paint job it came out pretty good. Not having a clue as to what to do next I asked a local custom car painter and he told me to sand it and then buff it, that was as detailed as his instructions would get.

Sand it and buff it.

So I bought some #1500 and #2000 grit wet/dry paper and sanded the entire car down. As I sanded I saw the concrete floor turn a very pretty pearlescent blue with all the paint slurry running off the car onto the floor as I sanded.

Next I went to the local tool rental store, "Snell Rental" and rented a rotary buffer. This was a Dinosaur from the 1960's and it had a wool pad on it that looked like it was from the 1960's and had seen a thousand cars. Back then I didn't know or think to purchase a new wool pad I just used what was already attached to the buffer.

The rental store sold one compound, that's it, no polishes or any options, just something in a quart container, the guy behind the counter told me it was "good stuff", so I bought a quart to go with the buffer.

I then proceeded to buff out the car to remove my sanding marks.

Back then I didn't know the difference between a swirl and a squirrel, all I know was the car started out shiny, I sanded it flat and made the paint dull, then I buffed out the paint and made it shiny again.

In my eyes it looked GREAT!

I returned the buffer and drove the car with it's brand new shiny pearl white paint job. My guess is the car was completely swirled out with holograms!

But I didn't know any better and no one around me said anything otherwise. That's just how thing use to be done. Remember this was probably 1980 or 1981, 20 years before vBulletin would be released to become what we all know as a "discussion forum".

Point being is you can start out with a rotary buffer but I wouldn't recommend learning on anything that's important to you. Instead, read, watch videos and then find either a car that no one cares about or get a hood out of a wrecking yard or from a body shop and practice.

Practice makes perfect.

I am in the camp that recommends starting with an easier tool to master if you're making the step up from working by hand to working by machine.

This would be one of these,

DA Polisher
Flex 3401
Cyclo

Then after you master one or all of the above, move onto the rotary buffer.

And if you get a chance to go to any type of detailing class with a person who has a good name in this industry, by all means sign-up for the class and go to it ready and expecting to learn.


:)
Click to expand...

Why does it not surprise me that your first rotary experience was a good one, ha.
 
Hoytman said:
.....I just meant that the other comments, i.e. variables you mentioned are out of reach from a knowledge perspective for newbies. In other words without years of experience how is a person to know what caused the bad turn out with the rotory, unless someone with knowledge is guiding them? Even then how do you know which variable, or set of variables caused the issues?
Click to expand...


I'm the OP in the thread that Mike referenced about looking for a professional detailer in Memphis. Your quote above, particularly the part I put in bold, is my exact problem, following my first attempt at using a rotary (with never having used ANY machine before- no DA experience). I've read and read and read online, so I've got "book knowledge" but when I tried using a rotary, my results were poor to mediocre at best. My problem was that there are sooo many variables, and I didn't know which variables I was doing right, and which variables I was doing wrong. I would make adjustments to me technique, but I had no clue which area of my technique needed to be adjusted, so I was just stumbling around blindly. My solution was to get on here, find an experienced, professional detailer who's a member here, and pay him to spend a few hours with me, teaching me the basics, hands on. Keep in mind that you're paying a professional mobile detailer. His time is valuable. Offer to pay him an amount that will justify him using his "business time" on you.

Oh, and also, just because someone is a member with a gazillion posts on an online forum, and just because they do this for money, doesn't automatically mean that they're good at what they do. Be selective if you decide to pay somebody to teach you. I got lucky- Flash lives in my city.
 
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