Hologram Free with a Rotary Buffer

[Hoytman]

I'm bumping this thread because I have some questions and concerns regarding us of a rotary buffer on theTrailblazer that I'm working on with black paint.

I already used the rotary and a wool pad on the roof and hood to remove extremely heavy oxidation and to remove some horrendous scratching. After to passes of the roof with wool and M105 I switched to a Meg's yellow polishing pad and M105 on my Dynabrade attachment, then switched again to a clean yellow polishing pad with M205. My results were great.

I'm needing to use a rotary buffer to make the best use of my time, while the sun is still shining and the weather is above freezing temperatures.

My question is;
Can a polishing pad with M205 remove holograms from my first step of M105 and an orange lc flat pad? I assume that the polishing pad and M205 will leave their own holograms, but I could be wrong. In this case I will switch to a finishing pad and M205 on my G110v2 to ensure that any holograms are eliminated.

I'm just not sure if a polishing pad and M205 won't create its own swirls.

Of course, if I have to I can always opt to do all steps with the G110v2 and probably only end up doing two steps. This may cancel out an attempt with a rotary and possibly needing to do 3 steps. Of course, my test spot will be do with the least aggressive method which will be the G110v2 with M105 and an orange lc pad, then the polishing pad with M205. If this produces the results I need, then I'll have to weigh any benefits of using the rotary first.

Comments welcome.

 

[Hoytman]

:bump2:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

My question is;
Can a polishing pad with M205 remove holograms from my first step of M105 and an orange lc flat pad?

Yes.

I assume that the polishing pad and M205 will leave their own holograms, but I could be wrong.

Chance are good the answer is "yes" but you might not see them if,

• The color of the paint is light
• You do not chemically strip the paint
• You move the car into full overhead sunlight
• You know how to inspect

The above is more me typing for the future, (people that will read this into the future), and not you Bill as I already know your rig is black.

In this case I will switch to a finishing pad and M205 on my G110v2 to ensure that any holograms are eliminated.

That should work.

I'm just not sure if a polishing pad and M205 won't create its own swirls.

Depends on the paint and your technique. The only way to know for sure though is to chemically strip the paint and inspect using very bright light. Otherwise you could be leaving swirls but how would you know?

That's the thing I point out in this article, some people claim to be able to finish down on every car they buffer out swirl free using only a rotary buffer but where's there proof? From what I see and read, it's usually just their claim, no proof.

 

[richy]

Bill, although I've never used the Dyna DA attachment, it should be just fine for what you need to do. I see no need to change to the Megs DA. You're doing the same thing. The orbit will be different, but it should accomplish the same thing. That's just my guess having never used the attachment, but I've heard many people rave about it, so I'm thinking it would do well for you.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Bill, although I've never used the Dyna DA attachment, it should be just fine for what you need to do. I see no need to change to the Megs DA. You're doing the same thing. The orbit will be different, but it should accomplish the same thing. That's just my guess having never used the attachment, but I've heard many people rave about it, so I'm thinking it would do well for you.

I owned a Dynabrade, it was one of the first versions that was quite heavy before you attached it to a rotary.

It worked but was clumsy and of course heavy... the newest versions are supposed to be a lot lighter and that would make using them easier.

 

[Hoytman]

...I'm needing to use a rotary buffer to make the best use of my time, while the sun is still shining and the weather is above freezing temperatures.

My question is;
Can a polishing pad with M205 remove holograms from my first step of M105 and an orange lc flat pad? I assume that the polishing pad and M205 will leave their own holograms, but I could be wrong. In this case I will switch to a finishing pad and M205 on my G110v2 to ensure that any holograms are eliminated.

I'm just not sure if a polishing pad and M205 won't create its own swirls.

Of course, if I have to I can always opt to do all steps with the G110v2 and probably only end up doing two steps. This may cancel out an attempt with a rotary and possibly needing to do 3 steps. Of course, my test spot will be do with the least aggressive method which will be the G110v2 with M105 and an orange lc pad, then the polishing pad with M205. If this produces the results I need, then I'll have to weigh any benefits of using the rotary first.

Comments welcome.

I'm not so sure I did a good job of asking my questions in the context of using a rotary for these steps. Perhaps Mr. Phillips' answers still apply.

I am planning/needing to use the rotary and small pads on the fenders because of the contours of the panel. I will be using some 4 inch and 3 inch pads on the rotary and wanted to go through all of the steps with the rotary in these areas. At that point I will employ the G110v2 to remove any swirls.

I had no intentions of trying to finish swirl free with a rotary. Was more interested in knowing if the pads and products would remove swirls from each prior step, although perhaps creating a more fine set of swirls/holograms. For example, M205 on a polishing pad creating its own swirls and holograms yet removing swirls created by an orange pad and M105.

I gathered from Mr. Phillips's answer below that my example above would hold true. I just want to make sure the M105/rotary marks could be eliminate. On the roof and hood I had no way of guaging this because my progression went like this; m105/wool/rotary, m105/polishing/Dyna...so I knew that the same product could remove the m105/wool/rotary swirls just by changing the tool action.

Yes.




Chance are good the answer is "yes" but you might not see them if,

• The color of the paint is light
• You do not chemically strip the paint
• You move the car into full overhead sunlight
• You know how to inspect

The above is more me typing for the future, (people that will read this into the future), and not you Bill as I already know your rig is black.




That should work.





Depends on the paint and your technique. The only way to know for sure though is to chemically strip the paint and inspect using very bright light. Otherwise you could be leaving swirls but how would you know?

That's the thing I point out in this article, some people claim to be able to finish down on every car they buffer out swirl free using only a rotary buffer but where's there proof? From what I see and read, it's usually just their claim, no proof.

I understand typing for the future and that is only a part of why I wanted to try and clarify what I was attempting.

I am certainly going to finish my last step with a DA. Just wanted to make sure each successive rotary step would eliminat prior rotary steps...if that makes sense.

Bill, although I've never used the Dyna DA attachment, it should be just fine for what you need to do. I see no need to change to the Megs DA. You're doing the same thing. The orbit will be different, but it should accomplish the same thing. That's just my guess having never used the attachment, but I've heard many people rave about it, so I'm thinking it would do well for you.

Hi richy,
In the larger of the doors and such I will still be using the Dyna-brade attachment. It is a real nice attachment that works flawlessly. It's a bit added weight, but it has no trouble at all turning those 6.5 inch Meguiar's pads I was using. Of course, my G110v2 does an exceptional job with those pads as well. I'm 275 lbs. and can put an extreme amount of pressure on my G110v2 on speed 5-6 before I can stop it. However, there's no substitute for the raw power of a 11 amp motor from a rotary combined with a Dynabrade attachment and larger pads. Makes quick work of large areas. I have no doubt you could turn even much larger pads with it, but I see no reason to when more power can be applied to the smaller pads increasing their final outcome.

When I'm finished with this job I'd be more than happy to send you my Dynabrade attachment as a "try before you buy" sort of thing. It's the least I could do to repay you, and I'd be happy to do so, just let me know.

Yesterday I attempted using my da on the fenders with an lc orange 5.5 inch pad and M105...slung it all over the place because of having to lift the pad of the panel in places. I won't do that again. LOL!!! So, I'm going change gears and going to use the smaller pads and the rotary which was my intent anyway, and thus the reason for posting to this thread. I also plan on doing the "richy" technique with M105. I honestly think there's less chance of slinging any product all of, especially when switching to the smaller pads. We'll see.

 

[richy]

Bill, thanks for your offer, but I've got my Flex, so I'm good. The Rupes is sounding interesting to me too. I look forward to hearing your results.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Joe@Superior Shine]

I am going to make a tall claim but I can finish some finishes 100% swirl free using only a rotary. Usually the finish is an enamel repaint that has the characteristic of being rubbery.

Using a DA on these finishes actually detracts from the shine and /or does nothing to remove defects. I find this finish on lots of classics that have been restored in the 70 and 80s.

I think it is possible to do swirl free rotary polishing on modern clear coats but at 10 -15 times the labor with MAD attention to technique, pads and products.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I am going to make a tall claim but I can finish some finishes 100% swirl free using only a rotary. Usually the finish is an enamel repaint that has the characteristic of being rubbery.

Using a DA on these finishes actually detracts from the shine and /or does nothing to remove defects. I find this finish on lots of classics that have been restored in the 70 and 80s.

I think it is possible to do swirl free rotary polishing on modern clear coats but at 10 -15 times the labor with MAD attention to technique, pads and products.

And I've buffed out single stage paint jobs with you and on my own for years Joe and agree with your comments...


:xyxthumbs:

 

[Joe@Superior Shine]

And I've buffed out single stage paint jobs with you and on my own for years Joe and agree with your comments...


:xyxthumbs:

:dblthumb2:

When are we tag teaming another? I'll be in Fla week of Feb 24th.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I'll get us a cool project car no worries...

 

[scoutfai]

Hologram Free with a Rotary Buffer

Bump into this old thread and have a question.

Mike, you emphasize that it is near impossible to buff without leaving hologram using only rotary. But isn't this photo shows that you have successfully buff with rotary only without leaving hologram?
The marring is from the wipe if I am reading correctly.

 

[Radarryan]

Bump into this old thread and have a question.

Mike, you emphasize that it is near impossible to buff without leaving hologram using only rotary. But isn't this photo shows that you have successfully buff with rotary only without leaving hologram?
The marring is from the wipe if I am reading correctly.

That's correct. It was his wiping, rather than the buffing action from the rotary polisher, that caused the marring. To prevent instilling swirls and scratches into the paint that you just polished, make sure to use a high quality microfiber towel and quality products if stripping the paint.

If you have soft, black paint like me, you learn really fast the proper technique for wiping residue off. Otherwise, it's back to polish out the scratches that I instilled...

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Bump into this old thread and have a question.

Mike, you emphasize that it is near impossible to buff without leaving hologram using only rotary. But isn't this photo shows that you have successfully buff with rotary only without leaving hologram?

First, this is one of those topics that gets a few detailers with big egos all emotional. You can tell by the way they instantly go on defense and offense about how good they are with a rotary buffer.


What I say is that not all paint polishes the same and some paints polish better than others. This means that no matter how GREAT you are and no matter what the pad, product and you're own personal great technique.... it's possible the paint you're working on is going to show holograms after only being buffed with a direct drive, circular motion rotary buffer.

Here's the follow up to that....

Because all quality finishing polishes use some type of oil in them to lubricate the paint as the abrasives are worked, the oil acts to mask fine holograms. So the results might look hologram free but a few weeks or months down the road, after the car has been,

• Washed
• Wiped
• Rained on

The holograms can and will show up.


Now a person can chemically strip the paint to check the "paint" to see if there are holograms but this takes,

• Time
• Something or somehow to chemically strip
• Bright overhead sun

Now follow me on this....

If a person is buffing out a car as in the car NEEDS correction followed by polishing, the job in total takes a lot of time. Remember most people will start the job by washing and drying, chemically and mechanically decontaminating, etc. etc. etc.,

By the TIME you get to the last machine polishing step it's likely late in the day and I know first hand that what I and most other guys want to do is get the paint sealed up and get paid. We don't want to start working backwards by chemically stripping the paint to inspect it to make sure it's hologram free. This takes more time and as pointed out in this article can and usually will mar the paint, this is working backwards. (you just spent all day working forwards making the paint look good).

So most people DON'T do the checking step and if you read any detailing discussion forum with someone bragging about how the create a hologram free finish using only a rotary buffer you just get to take their word for it because they don't show themselves chemically stripping the paint and then moving the car outside into bright sunlight to document there are no swirls. Again... you just get to take their word for it.

I've been doing this a long time and I've seen what happens after TIME goes by and the holograms show back up.


I'm not even saying there's not a lot of talented guys out there that really know how to use a rotary buffer because there are. What I'm saying is sometimes it's not about you or me, it's about the paint.

And the only way to know 100% for sure you really are in FACT leaving behind a hologram free finish is to chemically strip the paint and inspect the results in bright overhead sunlight.

Keep in mind for a detail project that takes say 6-8 hours, by the time you get to the part where you would chemically strip the paint and then move the car outside into sunlight the sun has already started to go down.

Sure you can use artificial light but bright, overhead sunlight is a pretty good reality checker. And again, all of this takes time... as in stopping what you're doing and stripping the car and then moving the car and then inspecting the car and on and on and on...


INSTEAD?

What I always write goes like this,


Change the action of the tool


As in, for your last machine polishing step, simply change the action of the tool, switch from a direct drive rotating action offered by the rotary buffer and instead use a dual action polisher that offers TWO ACTIONS.

By changing the action of the tool and using a tool that both rotates the pad and oscillates the pad you ensure a hologram free finish.


Now with the above all said....

Due to the incredibly HIGH QUALITY of products now available in this year... 2014... I think a person now day has the best chance of using only a rotary buffer and creating a hologram free finish. This is due to the abrasive technology available, the soft foam buffing pads available and rotary buffers that dial down to 600 RPM and even 400 RPM.


Also just to comment....

As long as after the detail job is over and the owner of the car maintains a good coat of wax or sealant, or even coating, even if there are very light, sleight or shallow holograms, if the finish is maintained they will likely never show up. So all this jibber jabber is for nothing for the car owner that maintains their car's finish.

The problem is most people don't regularly maintain their car to show car quality.

So the "Bubba-Proof" way to ensure a hologram free finish is to use the same super high quality abrasive technology in today's polishes along with the super high quality foam pads and use them with a DA polisher of some sort and just ensure you're leaving a hologram free finish.

We buffed out a 1959 Impala and a 1965 Ford Truck, both with a rotary buffers for the FIRST machine buffing step or what I call the Major Correction Step in my how to book and then we switched over to the Flex 3401 and a few Porter Cable style dual action polishers for the second machine polishing step and afterwards sealed both paints using synthetic wax on the Impala and a synthetic paint sealant on the Ford and both look absolutely gorgeous today.


I home some of the above helps a little...

 

[Flash Gordon]

First, this is one of those topics that gets a few detailers with big egos all emotional. You can tell by the way they instantly go on defense and offense about how good they are with a rotary buffer.


What I say is that not all paint polishes the same and some paints polish better than others. This means that no matter how GREAT you are and no matter what the pad, product and you're own personal great technique.... it's possible the paint you're working on is going to show holograms after only being buffed with a direct drive, circular motion rotary buffer.

Here's the follow up to that....

Because all quality finishing polishes use some type of oil in them to lubricate the paint as the abrasives are worked, the oil acts to mask fine holograms. So the results might look hologram free but a few weeks or months down the road, after the car has been,

• Washed
• Wiped
• Rained on

The holograms can and will show up.


Now a person can chemically strip the paint to check the "paint" to see if there are holograms but this takes,

• Time
• Something or somehow to chemically strip
• Bright overhead sun

Now follow me on this....

If a person is buffing out a car as in the car NEEDS correction followed by polishing, the job in total takes a lot of time. Remember most people will start the job by washing and drying, chemically and mechanically decontaminating, etc. etc. etc.,

By the TIME you get to the last machine polishing step it's likely late in the day and I know first hand that what I and most other guys want to do is get the paint sealed up and get paid. We don't want to start working backwards by chemically stripping the paint to inspect it to make sure it's hologram free. This takes more time and as pointed out in this article can and usually will mar the paint, this is working backwards. (you just spent all day working forwards making the paint look good).

So most people DON'T do the checking step and if you read any detailing discussion forum with someone bragging about how the create a hologram free finish using only a rotary buffer you just get to take their word for it because they don't show themselves chemically stripping the paint and then moving the car outside into bright sunlight to document there are no swirls. Again... you just get to take their word for it.

I've been doing this a long time and I've seen what happens after TIME goes by and the holograms show back up.


I'm not even saying there's not a lot of talented guys out there that really know how to use a rotary buffer because there are. What I'm saying is sometimes it's not about you or me, it's about the paint.

And the only way to know 100% for sure you really are in FACT leaving behind a hologram free finish is to chemically strip the paint and inspect the results in bright overhead sunlight.

Keep in mind for a detail project that takes say 6-8 hours, by the time you get to the part where you would chemically strip the paint and then move the car outside into sunlight the sun has already started to go down.

Sure you can use artificial light but bright, overhead sunlight is a pretty good reality checker. And again, all of this takes time... as in stopping what you're doing and stripping the car and then moving the car and then inspecting the car and on and on and on...


INSTEAD?

What I always write goes like this,


Change the action of the tool


As in, for your last machine polishing step, simply change the action of the tool, switch from a direct drive rotating action offered by the rotary buffer and instead use a dual action polisher that offers TWO ACTIONS.

By changing the action of the tool and using a tool that both rotates the pad and oscillates the pad you ensure a hologram free finish.


Now with the above all said....

Due to the incredibly HIGH QUALITY of products now available in this year... 2014... I think a person now day has the best chance of using only a rotary buffer and creating a hologram free finish. This is due to the abrasive technology available, the soft foam buffing pads available and rotary buffers that dial down to 600 RPM and even 400 RPM.


Also just to comment....

As long as after the detail job is over and the owner of the car maintains a good coat of wax or sealant, or even coating, even if there are very light, sleight or shallow holograms, if the finish is maintained they will likely never show up. So all this jibber jabber is for nothing for the car owner that maintains their car's finish.

The problem is most people don't regularly maintain their car to show car quality.

So the "Bubba-Proof" way to ensure a hologram free finish is to use the same super high quality abrasive technology in today's polishes along with the super high quality foam pads and use them with a DA polisher of some sort and just ensure you're leaving a hologram free finish.

We buffed out a 1959 Impala and a 1965 Ford Truck, both with a rotary buffers for the FIRST machine buffing step or what I call the Major Correction Step in my how to book and then we switched over to the Flex 3401 and a few Porter Cable style dual action polishers for the second machine polishing step and afterwards sealed both paints using synthetic wax on the Impala and a synthetic paint sealant on the Ford and both look absolutely gorgeous today.


I home some of the above helps a little...

Couldn't agree with you more. This may be your best post ever!


:dblthumb2:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Couldn't agree with you more. This may be your best post ever!

Thanks Flash...

 

[RPM_BR]

First, this is one of those topics that gets a few detailers with big egos all emotional. You can tell by the way they instantly go on defense and offense about how good they are with a rotary buffer.


What I say is that not all paint polishes the same and some paints polish better than others. This means that no matter how GREAT you are and no matter what the pad, product and you're own personal great technique.... it's possible the paint you're working on is going to show holograms after only being buffed with a direct drive, circular motion rotary buffer.

Here's the follow up to that....

Because all quality finishing polishes use some type of oil in them to lubricate the paint as the abrasives are worked, the oil acts to mask fine holograms. So the results might look hologram free but a few weeks or months down the road, after the car has been,

• Washed
• Wiped
• Rained on

The holograms can and will show up.


Now a person can chemically strip the paint to check the "paint" to see if there are holograms but this takes,

• Time
• Something or somehow to chemically strip
• Bright overhead sun

Now follow me on this....

If a person is buffing out a car as in the car NEEDS correction followed by polishing, the job in total takes a lot of time. Remember most people will start the job by washing and drying, chemically and mechanically decontaminating, etc. etc. etc.,

By the TIME you get to the last machine polishing step it's likely late in the day and I know first hand that what I and most other guys want to do is get the paint sealed up and get paid. We don't want to start working backwards by chemically stripping the paint to inspect it to make sure it's hologram free. This takes more time and as pointed out in this article can and usually will mar the paint, this is working backwards. (you just spent all day working forwards making the paint look good).

So most people DON'T do the checking step and if you read any detailing discussion forum with someone bragging about how the create a hologram free finish using only a rotary buffer you just get to take their word for it because they don't show themselves chemically stripping the paint and then moving the car outside into bright sunlight to document there are no swirls. Again... you just get to take their word for it.

I've been doing this a long time and I've seen what happens after TIME goes by and the holograms show back up.


I'm not even saying there's not a lot of talented guys out there that really know how to use a rotary buffer because there are. What I'm saying is sometimes it's not about you or me, it's about the paint.

And the only way to know 100% for sure you really are in FACT leaving behind a hologram free finish is to chemically strip the paint and inspect the results in bright overhead sunlight.

Keep in mind for a detail project that takes say 6-8 hours, by the time you get to the part where you would chemically strip the paint and then move the car outside into sunlight the sun has already started to go down.

Sure you can use artificial light but bright, overhead sunlight is a pretty good reality checker. And again, all of this takes time... as in stopping what you're doing and stripping the car and then moving the car and then inspecting the car and on and on and on...


INSTEAD?

What I always write goes like this,


Change the action of the tool


As in, for your last machine polishing step, simply change the action of the tool, switch from a direct drive rotating action offered by the rotary buffer and instead use a dual action polisher that offers TWO ACTIONS.

By changing the action of the tool and using a tool that both rotates the pad and oscillates the pad you ensure a hologram free finish.


Now with the above all said....

Due to the incredibly HIGH QUALITY of products now available in this year... 2014... I think a person now day has the best chance of using only a rotary buffer and creating a hologram free finish. This is due to the abrasive technology available, the soft foam buffing pads available and rotary buffers that dial down to 600 RPM and even 400 RPM.


Also just to comment....

As long as after the detail job is over and the owner of the car maintains a good coat of wax or sealant, or even coating, even if there are very light, sleight or shallow holograms, if the finish is maintained they will likely never show up. So all this jibber jabber is for nothing for the car owner that maintains their car's finish.

The problem is most people don't regularly maintain their car to show car quality.

So the "Bubba-Proof" way to ensure a hologram free finish is to use the same super high quality abrasive technology in today's polishes along with the super high quality foam pads and use them with a DA polisher of some sort and just ensure you're leaving a hologram free finish.

We buffed out a 1959 Impala and a 1965 Ford Truck, both with a rotary buffers for the FIRST machine buffing step or what I call the Major Correction Step in my how to book and then we switched over to the Flex 3401 and a few Porter Cable style dual action polishers for the second machine polishing step and afterwards sealed both paints using synthetic wax on the Impala and a synthetic paint sealant on the Ford and both look absolutely gorgeous today.


I home some of the above helps a little...

Dear Mike
I recently bought a Flex rotary, 140-2, because I felt the need of a strong correction, in a few cases where my Flex nor my Rupes weren't getting satisfactory results (extremely hard old paintings, and hard ceramic systems). The best results I achieved was using low speed settings, like 600 to 800 rpm, and when I felt the need to increase to 1000 and over, I always go back to 600 for the last one or two passes.
My doubt is the pattern of polishing, do I go left to right and then right to left, or I go in cross pattern, like the traditional DA style?
I also noticed that, since I'm new to rotary polishing, I had the DA habit of slower arm movement, I have to keep reminding myself to move it faster or it will heat it up and swirl.
I always use a DA afterwards for last step, because, as you pointed out, I've never seen a rotary doing a good job as a final step. Never.
By the way, the Flex rotary is a beast, so light and powerful, I'm glad I bought it instead of other cheaper alternatives, like DeWalt and Makita.
Indeed, this rotary was crafted for polishing, and polishing only.
Best regards and thanks in advance. And Merry Christmas!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Dear Mike

I recently bought a Flex rotary, 140-2, because I felt the need of a strong correction, in a few cases where my Flex nor my Rupes weren't getting satisfactory results (extremely hard old paintings, and hard ceramic systems).

Congratulations on the purchase of finely crafted tool.

Lots of push in the industry to dual action polishers, guys like Jason Rose leading the push but for good reasons. The reasons and thus the goal is to bring the "detailing industry" out of the stone age and in the process enable detailers to do better work by NOT leaving holograms in every car they buff out which leads to higher customer satisfaction.

Those are all great and worthy goals. But that never means there's never a place for the rotary buffer.

One thing I find myself typing and saying a lot is when I get asked if sanding marks can be removed using a dual action polisher and of course the answer is "yes". Especially if the person doing the sanding is finishing out at #3000 or #5000 grit.

The other part of my answer goes like this,

Sanding and buffing a complete car takes a long time, especially by yourself. The fastest way to remove sanding marks is with a rotary buffer because of it's direct drive gear mechanism and single rotating action, it will remove paint off a car better and faster than any other paint polishing tool

When removing sanding marks that's what you're in essence doing, you're removing paint to level the sanding marks or grooves in the paint until the surface is flat again.

So while "yes" a dual action polisher will remove sanding marks, sanding and buffing a whole car or even a panel with a rotary buffer already takes a long time.... why would I want to do it in any slower manner?

Not me. I'm grabbing the Flex PE14 a wool pad and a compound and getting the grunt work over with.

The same goes for some detail jobs like you describe. Sure a dual action polisher will get the job done but for the heavy lifting or the major correction step, assuming you're doing at least two polishing steps, the rotary will remove below surface paint defects faster than any other tool then simply finish out using any dual action polisher to guarantee zero holograms.

With todays compounds and polishes, doing this type of two step has never been easier and it is the process I teach in my class for the wetsanding session.

The best results I achieved was using low speed settings, like 600 to 800 rpm, and when I felt the need to increase to 1000 and over, I always go back to 600 for the last one or two passes.

That describes my normal technique. I'm a low rpm guy except when speed helps. For example buffing out neglected boats.

My doubt is the pattern of polishing, do I go left to right and then right to left, or I go in cross pattern, like the traditional DA style?

I use that pattern for a couple of reasons,

1. It ensures UMR or Uniform Material Removal across an the entire section buffed. At least more so than any other pattern.

2. It's an easy pattern to duplicate and teach others.

The only time I don't use a front to back, right to left pattern is for thin panels and that's when this practice comes into play....


The Yoda Technique for Buffing out a Car

I also noticed that, since I'm new to rotary polishing, I had the DA habit of slower arm movement, I have to keep reminding myself to move it faster or it will heat it up and swirl.

Time and place for everything. Slow arm movements are fine when you're removing lots of material like after wetsanding a car or when removing heavy oxidation or severe paint defects. It's best to also be doing so on a car with lots of paint but use common sense and you'll be okay.

What you want to avoid is to always moving the polisher fast all the time, this is called skimming and there's a time and place for skimming too.

I always use a DA afterwards for last step, because, as you pointed out, I've never seen a rotary doing a good job as a final step. Never.

Lots of egos and emotions get riled up when you bring up this topic with some people. And because I've already written about this topic in the nicest way I can I don't have much more to say except that,

Modern ultra fine cut polishes with super soft foam pads and low RPM rotary buffers do offer the best case scenario for hologram free results on "some" paint systems. Key word in the previous sentence was the word some.

The only way to REALLY know if you are leaving behind a 100% swirl or hologram-free finish is if the finish will stand the test of time. That and knowing how to inspect for holograms. To buff out a car using only a rotary buffer and then slap some wax on it and kick it out the door and tell everyone you're the god of the rotary buffer is not proof you're actually god of the rotary buffer. :laughing:

By the way, the Flex rotary is a beast, so light and powerful, I'm glad I bought it instead of other cheaper alternatives, like DeWalt and Makita.

I agree. When I sign my Flex 3401 how-to book the inscription I write on the inside of the cover states that the Flex 3401 is a beast because it is as far as dual action polishers go. It will mow through anything.

I tend to think of the Flex PE14 as a precision tool. It's capable of heavy chopping but also the most delicate procedures.

It's definitely the first rotary buffer I grab out of all the options available and I even wrote an article on that topic...


The Flex PE14 Rotary Polisher - The rotary I grab first...


It's always easy to write an article like the above when it's true, honest and comes natural as an attempt to help others...

Indeed, this rotary was crafted for polishing, and polishing only.

Agreed.

This tool was never meant for grinding steel or concrete, plenty of better suited options for that type of work.

Best regards and thanks in advance. And Merry Christmas!

:xyxthumbs:

 

[AaronC]

sorry for bring back this thread from the past, but is it possible to remove holograms with da polisher? I detailed a black suv today and saw some light holograms and thought that it was probably me but the owner said a he had previously taken it to another shop...so question is can I use my dual action polisher to remove them or do I need a rotary? second question is would my dual action could have created those holograms?

 

[allenk4]

A DA can cause holograms if used with improper technique; usually a dirty pad

A DA is the best tool for removing holograms