Least Aggressive Method First?

[Tundra_10]

While sifting through other websites and forums and such to gain different perspectives and ideas as to the best approach to this and best approach to that I stubbled upon an idea that has me somewhat perplexed, confused and a feeling of misunderstanding.

I totally get the whole notion of using the least aggressive method first but to what degree I guess is where I was missing and possibly not getting the "ah-ha" that I was supposed to.

I recently read that a flex polisher is best to be used for compounding and defect removal and really is not appropriate to apply sealants. I read that because of its forced action it will unnecessarily remove extra clear coat from the finish and a more preferred method would be to use a PC or similar when doing the sealant stage.

Since I have been a member of this forum the longest I felt the appropriate thing to do was post my concern hear to have someone help me to better understand if this is just a bunch of who-ha malarky or if there is some truth behind it. Either way it does not matter to me since I now have both tools, one was just going to be a back up and collect a lot of dust though. Now I might be thinking otherwise if I do or should in fact use both tools in my process and let the flex hang back when my paint is finally corrected and just use the PC for all my polishing and sealant application thereafter.

Please, I implore you to give me any sort of feedback or understanding you have on the topic. Its not so much a rush as it is the curiosity is killing me now.

Thanks everyone who read and posted on this thread! :xyxthumbs:

 

[BobbyG]

I recently read that a flex polisher is best to be used for compounding and defect removal and really is not appropriate to apply sealants.

I read that because of its forced action it will unnecessarily remove extra clear coat from the finish and a more preferred method would be to use a PC or similar when doing the sealant stage.

Regardless of the machine, the human element is the only safeguard for not removing too much of the finish during the correction phase.

Aggressiveness in Time:

1. Shortest - Rotary
2. Middle - Flex 3401
3. Longest - Porter Cable style

Applying sealants and waxes using the Flex 3401 with a red pad on speed 3 may be slightly overkill however won't remove any finish. A Porter Cable style polisher is the lighter of the 3 and more maneuverable.

Since I have been a member of this forum the longest I felt the appropriate thing to do was post my concern hear to have someone help me to better understand if this is just a bunch of who-ha malarky or if there is some truth behind it.

Either way it does not matter to me since I now have both tools, one was just going to be a back up and collect a lot of dust though.

Now I might be thinking otherwise if I do or should in fact use both tools in my process and let the flex hang back when my paint is finally corrected and just use the PC for all my polishing and sealant application thereafter.

Please, I implore you to give me any sort of feedback or understanding you have on the topic. Its not so much a rush as it is the curiosity is killing me now.

Thanks everyone who read and posted on this thread! :xyxthumbs:

Personally, I use my rotary and Flex 3401 for compounding and polishing. My Porter Cable 7424 is mainly used to apply sealants and waxes now.

 

[Tundra_10]

BobbyG thank you for your insight, I was admittedly a little excited to see you reading my thread because I knew you would respond and do so in a thorough and respectful manner!

I was a little off in my thinking and I am glad there are people like you on this forum to help people like me!

 

[BobbyG]

BobbyG thank you for your insight, I was admittedly a little excited to see you reading my thread because I knew you would respond and do so in a thorough and respectful manner!

I was a little off in my thinking and I am glad there are people like you on this forum to help people like me!

You're very welcome!

I'm always glad to help in any way I can. I hope I answered your question.

 

[Tundra_10]

You definitely did! As I initially mentioned it was my understanding that the flex would be a good all-duty tool. That may be the case but since I do have the option to use something a little less aggressive for other steps I believe I will utilize everything I have.

No sense in letting something get dusty when you have an excuse to use it!

Thank you again!

 

[VR8]

I do the exact same thing Tundra, Flex (or other machine) for the polishing and PC for the wax/sealant application. Like Bobby said, the PC is the lightweight machine, therefore the easiest one to apply sealants only having to use one hand to guide it across the car. And there's the least amount of extra weight on top of the applicator pad. Plus, it's just nice to save your Flex. No need to put the extra hours on it if it's not necessary.

 

[Tundra_10]

Thank you VR8 for your additional supportive comments, I am now glad that I listened to another member on here and decided to keep my pc. I was thinking about selling it but someone mentioned I should hang on to it and now that I am discovering this, I am glad I did and I definitely will keep it. I did not think I really had a use for it but now I am realizing its still probably going to be the machine I will be using the most when I get my paint corrected. Now all I need is some nice weather and one of my wonderful 3-day weekends because this thing is going to take forever to get the way I want it this first time around lol!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I recently read that a flex polisher is best to be used for compounding and defect removal and really is not appropriate to apply sealants.

I read that because of its forced action it will unnecessarily remove extra clear coat from the finish and a more preferred method would be to use a PC or similar when doing the sealant stage.

Disagree.

When you're machine applying a wax or paint sealant, AFTER doing a multiple-step paint polishing procedure, you should be using a "Finishing Wax", or a "Finishing Paint Sealant", and by this I mean a product that offers zero cleaning or abrading ability because you've already done the abrading work.

Follow me?

Then the pad you would be using to apply a show car wax or paint sealant would be a soft, foam finishing pad. Correct?

So if you're applying a finishing wax using a finishing foam pad on a slow setting.... how is this combination going to remove paint?

That would be the least of my worries.

I use the Flex 3401 to apply waxes and paint sealants after doing correction work and the least of my worries would be if it's removing paint.

I prefer to use a PC to machine apply waxes and paint sealants because it's a smaller, lighter, more compact tool that I can easily hold and control with one hand like you see in the picture below and as I point out in the caption for the picture...


1939 Lincoln Zephyr - Swirls Removed - Modeled by Nicole

What's nice about DA Polishers like the PC, Megs and Griot's units is they are light enough and compact in size enough that most people can easily hold them with one hand which makes machine applying the wax fast and easy.

But as far as a finishing pad and a finishing wax removing paint let alone too much paint it's a non-issue.

Since I have been a member of this forum the longest I felt the appropriate thing to do was post my concern hear to have someone help me to better understand if this is just a bunch of who-ha malarkey or if there is some truth behind it.

Good question.... and yes it's a bunch of who-ha malarkey as long as you're using a soft or non-aggressive pad and a non-cleaning wax or paint sealant there's no abrading taking place that's worthy of be concerned with.


Good question...

:xyxthumbs:

 

[Tundra_10]

^^ Awesome, thank you for the additional feedback Mike. I am not sure why I let the "outside information" defer my thoughts, but thats why I came back here for clarification because you all have introduced and taught me so much in the short time that I have been here.

You, and the rest of the gang here at AG have instilled a trust and bond with my persuasion and dissuasion on certain thoughts and techniques. The different views have helped me to understand topics yet you all have the general complimentary answers that coincide with the topic. Thus giving and providing different views with the same outcome!

 

[FUNX650]

I recently read that a flex polisher is best to be used for compounding

The Flex 3401 coupled with the appropriate "compounding pad/compound product"; and then, of course, taking the human factors into consideration; will, no doubt, be effective for compounding a clear-coat paint film.
IMO, a rotary with a synthetic-wool pad will be more effective.

However:
When considering the preservation of the very thin clear-coat paint film; and, unless the vehicle is to be a Show Car...


I often shudder when I hear the words (or even the process, for that matter)...Compounding Clear-Coat Paint Film with compound products.

That is, unless the Show Car's owner, and owners who have determined their vehicles have "Show-Car-Worthinessy", have been dutifully informed that the vehicle will have less CC than before (sometimes considerably less) due to the compounding followed by an often needed multi-step polishing process....And that among many factors, a protective LSP is more critical than ever...Also, that the owners have agreed to give the 'green light' to the corrector/detailer's total correction processes.

Owners of DD's that are concerned about CC's longevity, also IMO, should be dissuaded, as much as possible, from having their vehicles CC paint film compounded.

As the saying goes: Some things (such as paint blemishes) you may just have to live with.


Probably not too popular of a position to take...But, that's just me and my opinion.


And...Less I forget...Yes is my answer to your thread's question




Bob

 

[Tundra_10]

FUNX725, thank you for your response. I apologize if I used the incorrect vernacular in my questioning opening thread post. I meant the use of some sort of swirl remover or a more aggressive step then a polish or sealant. If I made you think otherwise I apologize for sending you a-stray. Thank you for your insight though, I am heeding everyones advise and am gleefully getting a stronger comprehension of what is truly meant of less aggressive method first.

It does not necessarily mean just the pads or the product being used. It also means the tool, the process, the man behind the machine. I guess I had a shallow understanding and never knew to ask the correct question to find that deeper meaning.

Thanks to you and other members (and Mike) I am realizing there is still so much out there for me to even understand, before I can even ask the right questions to lead me to understanding more about the process to getting a better quality finished product.

Everyday I have more and more appreciation for you professionals. You all make it seem so easy with your before, during and after because your comments seem to be so cavalier and nonchalant as if the work you do is the everyday grunge. You all in-fact are artists and these cars are your canvas.

I am also starting to see why this hobby is so addictive because those of us who are learning are inspired so much by the individuals that show beautiful work and we all would love to try to achieve such on our own with the knowledge that you all provide.

Awesome, simply awesome. Thank you everyone! If anyone else has anything to share or to enlighten me with please feel free to post, so far the responses have been incredible and more then I could have ever asked for. Thank you everyone!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I've been adding pictures to this thread,

1959 Chevrolet El Camino - Extreme Makeover - Modeled by Christina


Here's an example of using the Flex 3401 with a soft finishing pad to machine apply a paste wax... very non-aggressive....

Jeff machine waxing the hood with a Flex 3401

 

[RFulmer]

I've been adding pictures to this thread,

1959 Chevrolet El Camino - Extreme Makeover - Modeled by Christina


Here's an example of using the Flex 3401 with a soft finishing pad to machine apply a paste wax... very non-aggressive....

Jeff machine waxing the hood with a Flex 3401

Is that a HT Crimson pad he is applying wax with.

Nice car and as always nice job on the finish. Your "car of the week" segments show the use of a lot of different products which is really helpful when it comes time to do things ourselves. Seeing you use the cyan pad and swirl remover, tangerine pad with finishing polish and so on drives it home on which product to use with which machine and pad.

I just ordered your book tonight too, signed of course :dblthumb2:

 

[Kristopher1129]

No matter what tool you're using to lay down your final wax or sealant...there will be no removal of clear coat.

You'd need to be using something with abrasives, which wax and sealant do not have. The only way you would be removing clear coat while laying down LSP is if you're doing something incredibly wrong.

I don't have a flex...but, regardless you would not be removing any clear coat while laying wax.

I think the "least aggressive method" more applies to problem solving during correction. Like when attempting to remove scratches, swirls, or any defects from the paint.

When it comes to laying down wax or sealant to protect whatever method you've chosen for correction...there's no level of aggressiveness to choose from. There's a few different methods to choose from, but no risk involved with any of them. :xyxthumbs:

 

[Tundra_10]

Here's an example of using the Flex 3401 with a soft finishing pad to machine apply a paste wax... very non-aggressive....

Mike, not sure if you are going to see this post so if someone else (or Mike if you come back to see any activity on here) could I would be more then gracious of the reply.

I have seen you applying the wax by machine on several of your "cars of the week", maybe I have not read enough into the posts because I am too busy drooling over the cars and the models. What is your reasoning or rational behind applying the wax by machine. Are you trying to save time or does the wax apply differently when by machine (i.e. does it heat up so it allows it to spread thinner, or in more even coats)?

Also, would you be willing to do that with all hard waxes or are you only using certain ones as others would not take well to such an application method?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I have seen you applying the wax by machine on several of your "cars of the week", maybe I have not read enough into the posts because I am too busy drooling over the cars and the models. What is your reasoning or rational behind applying the wax by machine.

Machine always outperforms man

Are you trying to save time or does the wax apply differently when by machine (i.e. does it heat up so it allows it to spread thinner, or in more even coats)?

• Foam pad on machine = uniform flat surface against paint
• Equal pressure over the entire surface assuming you hold the tool correctly
• Uniform, consistent oscillating action to work the product over the surface
• The machine never gets tired
• Faster
• More effective at laying down a thin, uniform coating

The above is off the top of my head but more than enough reasons to compel me to do as many steps as possible by machine.

I think I cover this in my how-to book somewhere also...

Also, would you be willing to do that with all hard waxes or are you only using certain ones as others would not take well to such an application method?

I prefer to get my hand out of the process so the reverse of that is I try to use a machine for every step.

The machine always outperforms the human hand when it comes to working on automotive paints. About the only time I work by hand is if I have to and that would be for things like A-Pillars, Louvers, tight, complicated areas where you can't get a machine.

There is something to be said for spending a relaxing Saturday afternoon hand applying a wax or paint sealant to your baby for the relaxation benefits so it does come down to personal preference but I strongly think that it's faster and even safer to machine apply "Finishing Waxes", that is show car stuff to paint that's been previously machine polished to perfection or almost perfection.


Great questions!

 

[Tundra_10]

I think I cover this in my how-to book somewhere also...

Awesome! Again, thank you so much for your rumoring my questions and answering them quickly. I do need to finish that book one day. I will then reread it several more times so that I can at least get the understanding down of the information you are providing. I try to use it, along with the videos you have to ensure at the very least, following good technique in my endeavors to having a wonderful finish on my vehicle.

 

[Black Car]

I have been using my flex with a grey pad to apply waxes on speed 3. I see no issues with it.

 

[ShinyRex]

Apparently I am all about reviving old threads today. I was thumbing through Mike's book and I have a question on process. The book states

Test Spot 1:
Finishing polish & Polishing Pad

Test Spot 2:
Medium Polish & Polishing Pad
Finishing Polish & Finishing Pad

My question is would it be worth starting out with a finishing pad or folloing up the finishing polish on a polishing pad with the same polish on a finishing pad? or would that just be a waste of time as the white pad should finish down nicely?

Specifically I am talking about LC white and black pads and 106FA as the polish. My car has some very light swirls and I am not sure if I am overthinking things too much. I am sure trial and error is an acceptable answer but I was curious what everyone thinks.