DARK HORSE
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:dunno: That's all you have to say :dunno:
Review: Solution Finish “Brings Black Back” (Trim Restoration Product)
- Thread starter CEE DOG
- Start date
:dunno: That's all you have to say :dunno:
CEE DOG
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Bob! Your always insightful comments and questions are once again appreciated! Thank you my friend. Please see my comments in red within your quote.
I wasn't trying to speak for Chris but I did share my thoughts towards those questions as well.
Thanks again Bob! A pleasure as always.
I wasn't trying to speak for Chris but I did share my thoughts towards those questions as well.
No truer words were ever spoken!!!
Excellent review, as always. Corey!
-Just a few questions, though, if you don't mind Corey.
(Some things that caught my interest, that's all. I believe that most of what follows may be best addressed by Mr. West for his commentary.)
-And so that everyone will be assured...This is not a bashing of this product or any individual.
1.)a. From: http://solutionfinish.com/about.php:
Solution Finish is an incredible new product that restores originally black surfaces to a deep, rich black "wet look" shine that dries quickly with no greasy residue.
1.)b. From AGO: Solution Finish Black Plastic & Vinyl Restorer, trim restorer, black plastic restorer
Solution Finish by famed car fabricator and designer Rich Evans is an incredible new product that restores originally black surfaces to a deep, rich, black finish, without the "wet look."
My thoughts:
The: Without wet-look/To a Wet-look...May cause some confusion. IMO...Shouldn't this be addressed by the parties involved?
I think it may be error on AG's part. They also recomend on the AG page to apply in shade which is not something that matters and in fact the sun or a warm surface can only help not hurt.
Along with: (From the Q&A Section)
Corey:7. I noticed in the AG store web page they say for best results apply to a cool surface in the shade. I know that is rather standard but I tested Solution Finish in the sun as well and found no visible ill effects. Does application in the sun not allow the surface to darken as much as it would or affect the durability in some way?
Mr. West: Actually, Solution Finish likes a warmer surface rather than cold, so application in the sun only has a positive effect on the performance and durability. We have been told that in extreme cold conditions, let's say 40 degrees and below, it's not recommended to apply Solution Finish.
My Comments:
IMO...This issue needs to be addressed, also.
See above
2.)a. RE: Q&A session.
-Durability: ["Restores vs. Permanency"...<<Note: My words]
Corey:1. How many months can we expect from Solution Finish in average conditions?
Mr. West: Well, believe it or not, the term "average conditions" is broader than you may think. The average conditions in California vary greatly from, let's say, North Carolina. But, without being coy, here's the answer to the question: An application of Solution Finish will last between 12-14 months. However, we've found that the average vehicle owner usually reapplies Solution Finish in 6-8 months just to freshen and keep it at optimum appearance.
My Comments/Questions:
-Everything seems to oxidize when exposed to our Suns different rays. Does this also apply to "Solution Finish"? -Will "Solution Finish" also outgas/degrade, as it were, being that it has penetrated 'plastics/vinyl', at a nano-scale?
-Besides to: Freshen/optimum appearance...Are any of the above reasons I listed, or others, the cause for a reapplication within the 6-8 months time frame?
My thoughts: Solution Finish stops the formation of peroxide gas oxidation but time and the environment combined with who knows what cleaners people use I assume will cause the plastic to lose some of its pop over time. If people use extremely acidic cleaners I believe that will harm the finish.
2.)b.Testing:
Corey asked:4.- Is Solution Finish particularly vulnerable to any specific types of cleaners people may want to avoid?
Mr. West:We are continually testing in this area and to date have found that acetone and extreme de-greasers drastically affect Solution Finish's performance and durability. Not so much in California because of strict (green) regulations, but in many states car washes are allowed to use a foam pre-soak in drive-through and full service washes which has an acid-based composition that literally cleans by melting a layer of wax or clearcoat.
My Comments/Questions:
-Here lately...I seen many products introduced to the "detailing world" without being 'fully-tested'...
-I realize that with new emerging technologies, everything-under-the-Sun can't always be tested against every product...But;
-Every vehicle owner, along with those that details these vehicles (owners/detailers), maintains those vehicles differently.
-As such: There has been no mention of how to maintain the plastics/vinyls once they have been treated with "Solution Finish".
I read this a lot lately Bob. I expect manufacturers do not want to make things sound more compex when in fact they are making them less complex. I don't think any special care must be taken except for what Chris described.
I believe that Q&A is exactly what you wanted to know as far as special care. Avoid Extreme degreasers, acetone, and extremaly acidic liquids. All the car washes we are using in our driveway are fine.
As a general comment (non related to any one company) I think manufacturers are always looking to improve or learn more about their products capabilities but once they have something they consider performs above the level of current products on the market its time to release. Otherwise they would go out of business. However the innovators may never stop changing some formula even after they release a product since newer tech and observations can always be made.
There is no such thing as perfect on our planet so something can always be improved in some way.
Examples:
a. Car wash sessions: Shampoos /water-spotting
b. Detail sprays/detail waxes
c. Waxes---can they be removed from "Solution Finish(ed)" plastics/vinyls? (Some of us may 'accidently' brush/touch a waxing applicator against black trim---smooth or textured)
The first three I think you can treat just as you do now. No special care is needed, just treat it as you did before.
d. Sealants and Coatings. Can they be applied atop "Solution Finish", with the attributes associated with Sealants/Coatings, being so manifested...Or not?
-(If so, would the time frame (6-8 months) be extended, by, for example, the "durability of sealants'/coatings' time frames, before the need to: "freshen/keep at optimum appearance...would/should take place?
Chris spoke with me about about this and you can certainly top SF. Of course he can't speak for how every product from another company works over his but I think we'll learn more about this in the future.
For now I can say I'm personally testing coatings and sealants and will let you know how it goes with updates.
-Sorry for this protracted reply...And I also apologize if some of these comments/questions of mine may have already been addressed.
-Anyway:
Thanks for allowing these musings of mine. Any additional information/comments will be appreciated.
-Thanks again, Corey, for your time and efforts for this review.
Bob
Thanks again Bob! A pleasure as always.
CEE DOG
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Thanks Mark! I think on that test strip its interesting because I didn't make the SF bond completely before applying. On the other hand on the test section of my vehicle I let it bond completely and then even spray with IPA before applying OC (and others) In that case I think this may be a fine marriage. The SF shoudl be completely soaked in and part of the plastic and the OC should bond to the surface so I expect good results but I suppose I wouldnt be shocked if it didn't make a difference either.
Not much! I used between 1/2 and 3/4 bottle on the entire review so I prolly used 1/4 of an ounce on the van. Maybe 1/3.
I'll show you what I mean with a picture in my long overdue update at L2D in the next week or three. It made a huge difference on how much less the sides with UTTG and WGETS over the top of C4 were faded compared to C4 alone. That test did not have UTTG and WGETS by themsleves.
You can certainly purchase one... I believe AG is getting them, give them a call if they aren't in the store section.
TADMAN!!!!!!!!!!! Great to see you my friend and your feedback is always treasured.
Shane731
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- Dec 25, 2009
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I think this is definitely one of your best reviews (of course they're all top notch!)! I kinda want this now but can't really justify it, especially since I have Meguiar's UP as well as a fair amount of UTTG to use up. I wish I could do reviews half as good as you. Keep up the good work Corey! :dblthumb2:
:urtheman:
:urtheman:
SolutionFinish
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- Dec 27, 2011
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Hello Forum...and Bob I just dont have the time now, to really read all of he above....but I will and try to clear-up some of the Qs Bob has...I see what he means on some so tomorrow when I have time to look into it Ill post OKNo truer words were ever spoken!!!
Excellent review, as always. Corey!
-Just a few questions, though, if you don't mind Corey.
(Some things that caught my interest, that's all. I believe that most of what follows may be best addressed by Mr. West for his commentary.)
-And so that everyone will be assured...This is not a bashing of this product or any individual.
1.)a. From: http://solutionfinish.com/about.php:
Solution Finish is an incredible new product that restores originally black surfaces to a deep, rich black "wet look" shine that dries quickly with no greasy residue.
1.)b. From AGO: Solution Finish Black Plastic & Vinyl Restorer, trim restorer, black plastic restorer
Solution Finish by famed car fabricator and designer Rich Evans is an incredible new product that restores originally black surfaces to a deep, rich, black finish, without the "wet look."
My thoughts:
The: Without wet-look/To a Wet-look...May cause some confusion. IMO...Shouldn't this be addressed by the parties involved?
Along with: (From the Q&A Section)
Corey:7. I noticed in the AG store web page they say for best results apply to a cool surface in the shade. I know that is rather standard but I tested Solution Finish in the sun as well and found no visible ill effects. Does application in the sun not allow the surface to darken as much as it would or affect the durability in some way?
Mr. West: Actually, Solution Finish likes a warmer surface rather than cold, so application in the sun only has a positive effect on the performance and durability. We have been told that in extreme cold conditions, let's say 40 degrees and below, it's not recommended to apply Solution Finish.
My Comments:
IMO...This issue needs to be addressed, also.
2.)a. RE: Q&A session.
-Durability: ["Restores vs. Permanency"...<<Note: My words]
Corey:1. How many months can we expect from Solution Finish in average conditions?
Mr. West: Well, believe it or not, the term "average conditions" is broader than you may think. The average conditions in California vary greatly from, let's say, North Carolina. But, without being coy, here's the answer to the question: An application of Solution Finish will last between 12-14 months. However, we've found that the average vehicle owner usually reapplies Solution Finish in 6-8 months just to freshen and keep it at optimum appearance.
My Comments/Questions:
-Everything seems to oxidize when exposed to our Suns different rays. Does this also apply to "Solution Finish"? -Will "Solution Finish" also outgas/degrade, as it were, being that it has penetrated 'plastics/vinyl', at a nano-scale?
-Besides to: Freshen/optimum appearance...Are any of the above reasons I listed, or others, the cause for a reapplication within the 6-8 months time frame?
2.)b.Testing:
Corey asked:4.- Is Solution Finish particularly vulnerable to any specific types of cleaners people may want to avoid?
Mr. West:We are continually testing in this area and to date have found that acetone and extreme de-greasers drastically affect Solution Finish's performance and durability. Not so much in California because of strict (green) regulations, but in many states car washes are allowed to use a foam pre-soak in drive-through and full service washes which has an acid-based composition that literally cleans by melting a layer of wax or clearcoat.
My Comments/Questions:
-Here lately...I seen many products introduced to the "detailing world" without being 'fully-tested'...
-I realize that with new emerging technologies, everything-under-the-Sun can't always be tested against every product...But;
-Every vehicle owner, along with those that details these vehicles (owners/detailers), maintains those vehicles differently.
-As such: There has been no mention of how to maintain the plastics/vinyls once they have been treated with "Solution Finish".
Examples:
a. Car wash sessions: Shampoos /water-spotting
b. Detail sprays/detail waxes
c. Waxes---can they be removed from "Solution Finish(ed)" plastics/vinyls? (Some of us may 'accidently' brush/touch a waxing applicator against black trim---smooth or textured)
d. Sealants and Coatings. Can they be applied atop "Solution Finish", with the attributes associated with Sealants/Coatings, being so manifested...Or not?
-(If so, would the time frame (6-8 months) be extended, by, for example, the "durability of sealants'/coatings' time frames, before the need to: "freshen/keep at optimum appearance...would/should take place?
-Sorry for this protracted reply...And I also apologize if some of these comments/questions of mine may have already been addressed.
-Anyway:
Thanks for allowing these musings of mine. Any additional information/comments will be appreciated.
-Thanks again, Corey, for your time and efforts for this review.
Bob
PS i really do love all of this input....iam not as smart as some people, so this helps me find out my flaws & stuff
wish you all the best
Cw
SolutionFinish
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- Dec 27, 2011
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And this is just for Bob....how could you possibly know I was a IMO in high school. I was the deputy leader in France but we didn't win. (if your reading this and don't know what we are talking about IMO is International Mathematical Olympiad)
FUNX650
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- Dec 1, 2010
- 21,057
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Corey...Thanks for your kind words and responses.
-I just have to pick out the response to this inquiry of mine, though. (I was referring to your original posting of "particulate-sizes")
My question:
d. Sealants and Coatings. Can they be applied atop "Solution Finish", with the attributes associated with Sealants/Coatings, being so manifested...Or not?
-(If so, would the time frame (6-8 months) be extended, by, for example, the "durability of sealants'/coatings' time frames, before the need to: "freshen/keep at optimum appearance...would/should take place? though...About other products such as waxes/sealants follows:
You responded:
Chris spoke with me about about this and you can certainly top SF. Of course he can't speak for how every product from another company works over his but I think we'll learn more about this in the future.
For now I can say I'm personally testing coatings and sealants and will let you know how it goes with updates.
My Current Comments:
Particulate-sizes: Could it be...My nano's are smaller than your nano's!
IMO: This puts a whole new slant on the old saying:
Size Matters!!!
Thanks again Corey...(Mr West has stated his reply regarding my questions should be forthcoming tomorrow)
Bob
Royaldetail
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- Dec 9, 2011
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FUNX650
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^^^^Good one, Sir.^^^
From my posting:
"My Comments:
IMO...This issue needs to be addressed, also."
I'll have to remember, when in discussions with you, Mr. West, to use the following acronyms/forums-speak:
IME; or,
IMHO; or, even:
IMSOEXCITED! ~ Pointer Sisters
{BTW: Even though the Wife was born in France...I've taught her: The "Appalachian-Way of Life"...(Involves a different drawl, so to speak.)}
Bob
CEE DOG
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I'm tickled pink buddy!!
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! I hear you and know the feeling. Im the same way with justifying....Just remember you work hard so if you decide you want it you should let yourself have it.
Btw: You don't give yourself enough credit Shane!! Your reviews are awesome!
Thanks again my friend!!
Thanks buddy!! Yes it does.
CEE DOG
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I realized you can check the WGETS review updates to see what I mean. Of course that's outdated with how bad the c4 ended up fading.
Unfortunately I somehow don't have before pics of that front bumper from that day.... But the before rear bumper from that Saturn gives you an idea. That faded at the same rate. Tha was c4 coated but never layered with UTTG or wets But I do have video! Just ran out of time editing it.
SolutionFinish
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^^^^Good one, Sir.^^^
From my posting:
"My Comments:
IMO...This issue needs to be addressed, also."
I'll have to remember, when in discussions with you, Mr. West, to use the following acronyms/forums-speak:
IME; or,
IMHO; or, even:
IMSOEXCITED! ~ Pointer Sisters
{BTW: Even though the Wife was born in France...I've taught her: The "Appalachian-Way of Life"...(Involves a different drawl, so to speak.)}
Bob
Very Nice...Thanks Bob
bimmer325!
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- Jul 6, 2010
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Corey...I am "waiting" for you to get lazy..and give a mediocre review..but alas...you never disappoint! I take my hat off to you once again. Great review..and thanks btw..now I gotta spend more money getting new stuff.
FUNX650
New member
- Dec 1, 2010
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Your more than welcome, Mr. West.
As you may have been able to detect...I enjoy these types of discussion...
They are FUN, IMHO!! (<<<
)Speaking of FUN...A quick poser:
-To m ounces of a m% solution of SF.... x ounces of OC are added to yield a (m-10)% solution.
-If m > 25...Then x is:
Note: [ /=division symbol ]
(A) 10m/m-10
(B) 5m/m-10
(C) m/m-10
(D) 5m/m-20
(E) cannot be determined by the given information
Im the MANIm the MANIm the MANBob
SolutionFinish
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- Dec 27, 2011
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Hello Crew, I finally had the time to read the above questions and will try my best to respond accordingly, keeping in mind I am not even in the same ball park Cory and Nick.(boy they do a great job)
A couple of the questions are easy to answer, the issue with the wet look is only a typo on the website, it dries with no greasy residue or the wet look, regarding the weather my answer is correct and I will ask Autogeek to change the cool surface in the shade comment and I will correct the typo.
This coming Saturday I am going in and refreshing frequently asked questions section of my website to clarify most of these types of questions. Hopefully that will clear up any miss information there is.
Before I attempt to answer your other questions let me explain a little about plastic and how it degrades
.
Plastic generally ages rapidly because of the effects of light, oxygen and heat. The different types of UV radiation causes a photo chemical effect within the polymer structure which leads to oxidation. Once thermal- oxidation starts a chain reaction occurs which accelerates even more degradation, ultimately causing cracking, chocking, color change and discoloration of gloss, stiffness and flexibility.
Many plastics are manufactured by a process involving chain polymerization with a defined composition and molecular weight , when polymers are exposed to stress, light, heat, air, water or radiation , a chemical reaction starts resulting in a change in the composition of the polymer ,the reactions lead to the modification of the plastics physical and optical properties, a process called photo degradation takes place when UV radiation breaks down the chemical bonds in plastic causing cracking ,color changes and loss of physical properties Solution Finish uses absorbers to avoid this issue
.
Of coarse UV radiation is universal and can never be totally eliminated, it burns the exterior skin of plastic rubber, vinyl and paint just to name a few. Paint turns dull then chalky, rubber seals and bumpers turn white, dry out and become hard as a rock, vinyl trim will also turn white and eventually crack, hard plastics like air dams side mirrors and trim react in the same way.
So, overt time heat, light and oxygen degrade the plastics, shortening the life of the part. To protect against such light induced oxidation or weathering Solution Finish has added light absorbers, stabilizers and antioxidants. These additives ensure the mechanical properties and aesthetic appearance of the part is retained protecting against color fading, discoloration and loss of gloss, even under long-term UV exposure. Plastic that absorbs UV energy excites the protons, in a plastic, exciting the protons can create free radicals, while many pure plastics cannot absorb UV radiation the presence of residues and other impurities even at trace amounts will often act as free radical receptors, those free radicals can cause breaks in the polymer bonds which ultimately destroys the plastic rubber or vinyl. Solution finish uses 23 different ingredients that absorb and deflect this situation.
Everything starts to break down at one point and cannot be completely stopped Solution Finish is no different, how fast it breaks down depends on how much exposure it has to the elements and for how long. Anything placed over the top of the Solution Finish coat will help it's long lasting durability because, the UV rays must break it down first, before it can start the process all over again. The reason most of the Solution Finish customer re- applies is be because it maintains the darkest appearance for their black trim
.
Solution finish is new to the market place, but (not new as in being used) we have been privately using and testing solution finish for over three years, so I would say it is tested.(but nothing can be fully tested) There is no mention of how to maintain Solution Finish once it's been treated because there is no maintenance required, only if you want to add a little more protection, it's left up to the individual. Because Solution Finish is a solvent-based product it will cut through most waxes that accidentally gets on the part to be treated.
One thing Solution Finish is not and that is a miracle product it just happens to be the best on the market now, it was designed to be a professional product for professionals to use.
I hope this helps a little bit…..Cw
FUNX650
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- Dec 1, 2010
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Thank you, Mr. West (Cw), for answering all of my inquiries regarding "Solution Finish" to the fullest degree.
It is most appreciated!!
Best Regards,
Bob
CEE DOG
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Chris, thanks for taking the time to right out the full explanation on how it all works. There's a bunch of us here (as you can see) that love the details.
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Thanks Richard, no it is not slippery. I used it on my friends running boards for the win.
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Thanks Richard, no it is not slippery. I used it on my friends running boards for the win.