Yikes, That Was Painful

After watching both videos twice I was here thinking, "wow, he must have gotten a call from the 3D/HD lawyer to change his speech like that"...

Anyway, did you guys notice how he has was loading his body weight onto the polisher and it wouldn't stop rotating? The very point of using a DA is to have the clutch engage so you don't burn trough the clear coat, isn't?

Remember as a da spins in a circular motion it also oscillates in a different pattern which is key IMO to prevent damage. There is no actual clutch . If my memory is correct it is a free floating spindle assembly.

If you knew Garry as well as many other members of the detailing community do , you would know nothing could be further from the truth.
 
Really, so it's all about the orbit of the pad, so it's okay to put my whole body weight onto the polisher...? Don't think so..
 
I read the entire thread over there on this, seems like it was only a couple folks, and one guy posting under multiple accounts that were complaining. In reality, what is the big deal? This is supposed to be a fun/job hobby in which you choose what works best for you and roll with it!
 
Really, so it's all about the orbit of the pad, so it's okay to put my whole body weight onto the polisher...? Don't think so..
Actually, yes. A long as your not TRYING to strike through the clear, you'd be pretty hard pressed to burn the paint with a DA. Try that with a circular(rotary) polisher, and your chances of burning through the clear are MUCH greater. So, yes, it's about the orbit of the pad.
 
Because a DA orbits, it will not generate enough heat to burn your clear. A rotary on the other hand spins in one direction and creates a lot of heat and therefore can burn through. The whole body weight demo was just to show how much pressure could be applied to the new HD polisher without stopping the pad from spinning. Using that much pressure would not be necessary for correction work.
Really, so it's all about the orbit of the pad, so it's okay to put my whole body weight onto the polisher...? Don't think so..
 
Using that much pressure would not be necessary for correction work.

One may not need all that power so in reality the other DA polishers (PCXP, Meg's G110v2, Griots) are still more than adequate for the job power wise but for some, it is all about knowing they have to most powerful even if not really required.

I think someone selling a DA should focus on engineering ergonomic aspects such as flex features like the trigger, better speed dial, less vibration/noise, etc. that mean something after using an extended time.
 
:iagree:Good points Al.
One may not need all that power so in reality the other DA polishers (PCXP, Meg's G110v2, Griots) are still more than adequate for the job power wise but for some, it is all about knowing they have to most powerful even if not really required.

I think someone selling a DA should focus on engineering ergonomic aspects such as flex features like the trigger, better speed dial, less vibration/noise, etc. that mean something after using an extended time.
 
I beg to differ, a DA/RO CAN and HAS burned paint, it's just much less common then with a rotory. It's not correct to say it just can't do it, it's just much harder to do it.

Excess "power" in a DA is debatable. If a PC can do the job with exactly the same products and passes, then the "power" aspect is irrelevant, it's simply the OPM's that does the work. If it can't, then the power aspect is what does the work. Two different DA's both spin at say 6000 OPM, do they work the same, or is the one with the more powerful motor going to get it done faster?
 
I beg to differ, a DA/RO CAN and HAS burned paint, it's just much less common then with a rotory. It's not correct to say it just can't do it, it's just much harder to do it.

Excess "power" in a DA is debatable. If a PC can do the job with exactly the same products and passes, then the "power" aspect is irrelevant, it's simply the OPM's that does the work. If it can't, then the power aspect is what does the work. Two different DA's both spin at say 6000 OPM, do they work the same, or is the one with the more powerful motor going to get it done faster?
Who said a DA CAN'T burn paint?
 
Are you saying Garry Dean doesn't know what he's doing?


popcorn2.gif
:haha:
 
In reality, what is the big deal? This is supposed to be a fun/job hobby in which you choose what works best for you and roll with it!

Exactly. There's an old saying, take the high road... kind of keeps a person out of trouble.

There used to be a guy on the now defunct DetailersClub.com discussion forum that had a signature line that went something like this,

"Don't wrestle with a pig, you'll both get dirty but the pig likes it"


:laughing:



The whole body weight demo was just to show how much pressure could be applied to the new HD polisher without stopping the pad from spinning.

Using that much pressure would not be necessary for correction work.

Exactly. Also something I've been saying since coming to Autogeek from MeguiarsOnline and continually being asked which of the available PC style DA Polishers is the best.

No sane person ever pushes down so hard when doing correction work that the pad would stop spinning when using good technique.

Now curves and raised body lines are another story, that is when you place more pressure to just an edge or portion of a pad on a DA Polisher it "can" be enough to stop the pad from spinning.

Also, holding the polisher purposefully on edge can be enough leverage over the drive mechanism to stop the pad from rotating.

If the new HD DA Polisher is so strong that nothing will stop the pad from spinning, then it's kind of a new version of a rotary buffer.

Remember, one of the key features that helps people BRAND NEW to machine polishing is the feature where the pad WILL stop spinning if a mistake is made or bad technique is used. Take away that simple safety feature and you're talking about a rotary buffer.

I don't remember seeing Gary ever hold the polisher to put more pressure on just an edge, that's something I do when testing,

  • These types of tool
  • Backing plates
  • Pad designs

FWIW



One may not need all that power so in reality the other DA polishers (PCXP, Meg's G110v2, Griots) are still more than adequate for the job power wise

Exactly.

MILLIONS of cars have been buffed out since Meguiar's introduced the Porter Cable as a paint polisher back in either the late 1980's or the early 1990's.

It wasn't available in 1988 as a paint polisher when I went to work for Meguiar's as a Trainer calling on body shops. I did show guys how to use the W5500 foam pad on air powered DA Sanders like the 3M and Dynabrade units. The W5500 is akin to the white pad that comes with a new Porter Cable, I have a picture of one somewhere.

I do remember using and demonstrating the Meguiar's offered Porter Cable probably back to 1990, possibly 1989, just can't remember the exact year.



but for some, it is all about knowing they have to most powerful even if not really required.

Macho macho men!

Seriously, I like power, heck my daily driver has a 454 BBC and it's a blast to drive.


I think someone selling a DA should focus on engineering ergonomic aspects such as flex features like the trigger, better speed dial, less vibration/noise, etc. that mean something after using an extended time.

And safe power.


:)
 
I beg to differ, a DA/RO CAN and HAS burned paint,

Correct. Been there seen that... been there done that...


ANYTHING that removes paint, including your hand can burn through, or strike-through, or abrade through the clear layer to expose the basecoat on a basecoat/clearcoat finish, or abrade through a single stage finish to expose the primer.


This is especially true if other hack detailers have buffed cars out before the rest of us get to them to do it right the second time. (Or third or forth or fifth time, etc...)



Basically, if the paint is what I call Whisper Thin, then you can easily go through it by machine or even by hand. This will normally be the easy to buff areas like the horizontal surfaces, especially if there are any raised body lines or edges.


"Always use the least aggressive approach to get the job done"


The goal is to get the job done, (whatever that is), while leaving the most paint on the car to last over the service life of the car.


I covered this in the Live Broadcast last Thursday night on the 1968 Firebird.

1968Firebird023.jpg




:)
 
Just to chime in on another point to consider, the below is taken from Mark's thread here,


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-da-say-professional-random-orbital-side.html


Here's post #136, I have not purchased the book yet but plan too...

I think it's a very interesting insight that Matt added to the discussion that also applies here,

I read an interesting book last year Called "PoorlyMade in China" by Paul Midler and it was very interesting to read about how a factory wants your contract (and your design!) so will offer you a low price for your initial order.

Then when you come back to place a second order for the same product, they reduce the internal quality of the interior pieces without telling you and if you bring it up their excuse is that they cannot possible manufacture the product at the original quality for the original price anymore.

If you want the original quality it will cost you more.

Thing is, you don't often know that the quality has been reduced until something fails and you discover it's not up to spec. Griots may not even know that the motor isn't the same as originally spec'd.





Just food for though...


:dunno:
 
Thing is, you don't often know that the quality has been reduced until something fails and you discover it's not up to spec. Griots may not even know that the motor isn't the same as originally spec'd.
Yep, I don't think it was a QC issue with the Griot's, I think they changed something with the polisher, and Griot's may not even be aware, as Mike said.

:dblthumb2:
 
Actually, yes. A long as your not TRYING to strike through the clear, you'd be pretty hard pressed to burn the paint with a DA. Try that with a circular(rotary) polisher, and your chances of burning through the clear are MUCH greater. So, yes, it's about the orbit of the pad.
__________________
2012 Summit White Camaro 1SS, 6M, Factory Options

Mark
Who said a DA CAN'T burn paint?
 
Remember as a da spins in a circular motion it also oscillates in a different pattern which is key IMO to prevent damage. There is no actual clutch . If my memory is correct it is a free floating spindle assembly.


Correct Paul, here's an article that explains this in-depth...

The Free Floating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...



In the below pictures, I'm pointing to what's referred to as the Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly of a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher.

Porter Cable 7424XP with the Backing Plate Removed Exposing the
Counterweight and Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly
FreeRotatingSpingleAssembley003.jpg


Close-up
FreeRotatingSpingleAssembley004.jpg




I think on MOL there was a thread that tried to make a big deal out of the use of the word clutch as it relates to the free floating spindle assembly.

I wrote the above article to set the record straight in a nice and friendly way, especially after reading others doing the opposite, that is discussing the mis-use of the word in a disparaging manner.


"Take the high road"


:laughing:
 
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