Opti Coat (OC) or Opti Guard )OG) Revenation

[Old Tiger]

Where exactly do you get this? The car appeared to have gone to some rough locations, and without having another car spending the same time at the same location, you can't really say whether or not OG did better than just unprotected paint. Heck, having it survive underneath all that iron contamination seems pretty impressive to me.

In fact I think it is less permeable than Clear Coat. All the Iron was on the surface so it released in volume. Iron gets embedded in clear and doesnt release near as easy!

 

[RMM]

Where exactly do you get this? The car appeared to have gone to some rough locations, and without having another car spending the same time at the same location, you can't really say whether or not OG did better than just unprotected paint...

I see your point. However, my opinion wasn't only based on Old Tiger's experience but on all the other cases reported recently - I don't think the other cars have experienced the same harsh environments as the Yaris.

...Heck, having it survive underneath all that iron contamination seems pretty impressive to me.

To me also (I stated that in my post). I don't compare OG/OC with anything on the market - only to OEM clear coat.
Optimum is probably my prefered detail products brand: I only wish they had better distribution channels in Europe!

 

[RMM]

IME, ReLoad is the Best value topper. Permanon is superb but costs >> $ more than ReLoad!

Thank you very much for your answer :xyxthumbs:

 

[Chris Thomas]

This thread is an excellent example of what I've been suggesting as a first diagnosis step. Something sitting atop the coating WILL change the beading...but by no means implys the coating is gone. A strong wash and mild clay is what I have suggested as a first step for those who see beading diminish. Good job, Jim!

There are some cases where the prep didn't allow the coating to bond well and it was actually gone after a few months. With our product holding up for 8+ years on test vehicles we know were prepped right, I can safely and confidently say that if it has actually "disappeared", then it was a prep issue.

For example, one of the posters whom I helped diagnose had beading stop only on the roof. When we determined that it was gone, I asked about how each section was prepped. Then we exposed that Optimum Polish was used on the majority of the vehicle, but Meguars 205 was used on the roof where the failure to bond well occurred. This is by no means a slam on M205...just know that some polishes leave things behind that can prove difficult to remove.

Most of the prep questions I get are along the lines of "what can I get by with using" instead of asking for clarification the directions we have posted...and I think these liberties some are taking are to blame for performance inconsistent with our assertions about Optimum Coatings. I have not had a single report of bad performance when Optimum Polshes were used, followed by water dampened MF wipedown or an ONR wash, then following the application directions on the label.

I have also shown concern in all my posts for applications being "handled" too much. Or buffed too much with a towel after initial application. The product only needs to be spread evenly over the section, not buffed in with ANY amount of pressure. The side to side, up/down, and/or circle passes are to be done quickly and effortlessly just to spread it out...not to "work" the coating. As soon as you have coverage, stop touching it or you'll likely thin the coating. Then when 90% of the section has flashed to clear, you can go over the areas that haven't flashed to clear lightly/quickly with a paint safe MF. This is not like removing residue so no pressure is needed. You are only removing the wet/thick area of over application. No pressure is needed because even just spreading it out will prevent dry high spots. Also, if you do still get a high spot, go ahead and let the coating cure for a day or so before removing it. This will ensure proper bonding and prevent lackluster beading from touching it while it dries. I always have my clients come back for an inspection and complimentary hand wash within the first 30 days. They can point out spots and it will ensure that you are removing as little coating as possible.

As for the excessive bleeding: that is not an example of permeation, but in fact the opposite. All of the contaminant were "stopped" at/by the coating. Had the car not had Opti Coat, you would have seen penetration into the clear like we do at lots in Ford & Chrysler plants in Mexico where new cars await deployment. It is very contaminated around rail yards and industrial areas and that's why even new cars need decon washes and claying. It should be noted too how easily the contaminants came off compared to OEM clears. Likely there was only a thin layer that was able to stick (I don't think bond or penetrate is accurate given the returned beading) and the rest wash just built up on top of that. Did Jim mention the wash method and frequency here, or did I miss it? I'm curious about the locale where it sits and maintenance wash process, frequency.

 

[Hoytman]

...we exposed that Optimum Polish was used on the majority of the vehicle, but Meguars 205 was used on the roof where the failure to bond well occurred. This is by no means a slam on M205...just know that some polishes leave things behind that can prove difficult to remove.

I have not had a single report of bad performance when Optimum Polshes were used, followed by water dampened MF wipedown or an ONR wash, then following the application directions on the label.

Does the underlined above mean that no matter what polish I use as long as it's followed by an ONR wash (strong one perhaps) that opti-coat/guard should have no issues? In other words M205 followed by ONR.

OR

Are you saying that a simple "water dampened MF wipedown" will work after optimum polish, and/or M205?

OR

Are you saying that optimum polishes followed by ONR is the only way to assure adhesion of OC/OG? Obviously, there's some, "synergistic compatibility" going on with this choice as Mike Phillips would say. LOL!

Then when 90% of the section has flashed to clear, you can go over the areas that haven't flashed to clear lightly/quickly with a paint safe MF. This is not like removing residue so no pressure is needed.

I'm somewhat confused by that statement. So, when 90% flashes clear, you only go over the areas that haven't flashed, instead of all of it?

 

[Chris Thomas]

I'm saying those that:

1. Use Optimum Polishes
2. And either a) use a water dampened MF to remove the Optimum Polish residue or b) an ONR wash to remove the Optimum Polish residue
3. Then follow the instructions on the Opti Coat label

Have not reported any issues. Yes, there is synergistic compatability. It's not the only way to ensure adhesion, but it is the easier.

You only "need" to go over what hasn't flashed clear. If its clear then there is not going to be a high spot. You "can" go over the whole section, but again...that's a what can I get by with question. There is no residue to remove so all you are doing is removing excess product from the places it is too thick, in order to prevent a blemish.

I consistently use the product as outlined and get consistent results. I think some of the confusion stems from all the comparisons of our coating to extended life sealants like CQUARTZ. These products are not the same tech and application instructions shouldn't be interchanged. There is no residue to buff off later with OC. OC doesn't need to be topped or boosted. OC doesn't wear off from normal maintenance over a couple of years, but lasts until you deliberately remove it abrasively. This is not a slam on CQuartz, but a distinction I've made since the beginning...these aren't apples to apples even with Finest. Opti Coat is just wipe it on and remove/blend excess before it dries. When I demo applications at SEMA and Detailfest, everyone is amazed at the simplicity of it. The worry of error from the word permanent makes people over think it, be too cautious, go too slow, wipe too much, etc.

 

[Old Tiger]

Chris, my son lived in apartments. He would go thru a touchless from time to time. Im glad you validated my theory that the contaminants couldnt penetrate the OG. I dont get that reaction when I decon an uncoated vehicle and I did one much worse than this. I had an amazing foamm clay bar replacement that I used after the Iron X. Chris do you and Dr. G. want me to post a picture of it? I only use Optimum Polishes and compound on the cars I coat. I do this part time and I dont want to do heavy compounding. That being said, your compound is a dang good one. I usually just need Polish II!

 

[Hoytman]

Thanks for the clarification Chris.

 

[octane]

Chris, I am probably guilty of overthinking the OC process... I'm pretty sure I buffed too much, now the problem I have is that after a good wash with some apc added, water still bead off 80% of the paint surface, the rest I probably removed the OC when buffing the high spots... (my fault)

what should I do, polish the whole car then reapply? or can I just reapply without removing the OC 2.0 that is still there?

when Old Tiger says that OC is layerable, is it true for all OC 2.0 produced, or was there a change in product recently?

thanks

 

[Chris Thomas]

Chris, my son lived in apartments. He would go thru a touchless from time to time. Im glad you validated my theory that the contaminants couldnt penetrate the OG. I dont get that reaction when I decon an uncoated vehicle and I did one much worse than this. I had an amazing foamm clay bar replacement that I used after the Iron X. Chris do you and Dr. G. want me to post a picture of it? I only use Optimum Polishes and compound on the cars I coat. I do this part time and I dont want to do heavy compounding. That being said, your compound is a dang good one. I usually just need Polish II!

I think we may have uncovered the origin of the issue. Touchless washes use very strong detergents that don't fully remove the road film that accumulates on a vehicle. With experience on interiors, we can learn that not rinsing detergents thoroughly from carpets will actually "attract" dirt faster...and that'd be no different with the exterior. Not fully removing the road film with a hand wash from time to time and a few washes not fully rinsing away the chemicals would allow the surface to start holding contaminants. Just take a white towel with you and dry off the car after a touchless wash to confirm my theory.

The good news is that Opti Coat did not allow them to penetrate like they would have on OEM clear! I'm glad you were able to get to the issue without too much effort. Also, its good to hear you like the polishes. A lot of time has gone into them and we are always trying to improve!

 

[Chris Thomas]

Chris, I am probably guilty of overthinking the OC process... I'm pretty sure I buffed too much, now the problem I have is that after a good wash with some apc added, water still bead off 80% of the paint surface, the rest I probably removed the OC when buffing the high spots... (my fault)

what should I do, polish the whole car then reapply? or can I just reapply without removing the OC 2.0 that is still there?

when Old Tiger says that OC is layerable, is it true for all OC 2.0 produced, or was there a change in product recently?

thanks

The surface will need to be cleaned well again...maybe a mild clay if its been awhile, but you can add another coat without polishing most times. Sometimes after 30-90 days, you may need a pass or two with a finishing polish if you test an area and it streaks immediately unlike the normal flashing.

 

[PoorOwner]

As a consumer paying for OC installed, I was promised it will be easy to wash and take care of (no need to wax your car)... to need a non OTC product like IronX, clay and polish seems to me just maintaining another clear coat to me. I do understand the benefit of having the extra coat as a sacraficial layer.

Just saying.. from a consumer point of view.

 

[Chris Thomas]

As a consumer paying for OC installed, I was promised it will be easy to wash and take care of (no need to wax your car)... to need a non OTC product like IronX, clay and polish seems to me just maintaining another clear coat to me. I do understand the benefit of having the extra coat as a sacraficial layer.

Just saying.. from a consumer point of view.

It is easy to wash. But automated touch less washes don't get the car clean and can allow a buildup of road film. We have always asserted that having a coating applied is not excuse use to cut corners on proper maintenance, just that it would be easier. I'm certain a hand wash once or twice a month would not have allowed this level of contamination...and OG wasn't a sacrificial barrier in this case. It did prevent penetration that OEM clear would not have.

Also, OC is our consumer version. If I were paying a professional to do it I would want the professional version, Opti Guard.

 

[octane]

As a consumer paying for OC installed, I was promised it will be easy to wash and take care of (no need to wax your car)... to need a non OTC product like IronX, clay and polish seems to me just maintaining another clear coat to me. I do understand the benefit of having the extra coat as a sacraficial layer.

Just saying.. from a consumer point of view.

the contamination on this car was probably 10X what a normal car would see in one year, so a case like this would not happen on 99% of cars. I think that what we have seen, this is a tribute to how well OC can protect the clear coat in cases of severe contamination!

 

[tuscarora dave]

Very interesting thread!!

I applied Opti-Coat 2.0 to my personal car nearly 2 years ago. Reason for application was two fold.

1. So that I could concentrate on customer's cars instead of having to budget time to keep my own car waxed or sealed.

2. So I could torture the living crap out of the Opti-Coat 2.0 application on my own car, in order to see for myself whether an application of it would be something I could confidently offer my customers, or if it would just be another hollow marketing hype type of product that would be more of a liability than an asset for my customers and my detailing business.

I have regularly sprayed a liberal coating of a concentrated alkaline all purpose cleaner onto my car and allowed it to fully dry in direct sunlight, then I re-wet the car and wash it with a wash brush and car wash concentrate to remove any road film that the APC may not have emulsified. For days after washing the car like this, people often times comment on my freshly waxed car. They can't believe it when I tell them that I haven't polished or waxed it in nearly 2 years.

My prep for this particular application was to polish with M-205 followed by PO85RD both via rotary, wash with alkaline degreaser then wipedown with a cheap Glass cleaner (Basically RO water, vinegar and alcohol) and apply Opti-Coat 2.0 very sparingly followed by a very light wiping with a MF towel to smooth out any wet spots from changing directions with the supplied foam applicator.

I believe that if the vehicle is prepped properly, OC or OG should surpass the expectations of any car owner.

I offer OC or OG not as a permanent coating but rather a 2 year coating, informing the customer that the manufacturer calls it a permanent coating but my torture testing is only 2 years into the test.

Just my unsolicited 2 cents. TD

 

[Old Tiger]

the contamination on this car was probably 10X what a normal car would see in one year, so a case like this would not happen on 99% of cars. I think that what we have seen, this is a tribute to how well OC can protect the clear coat in cases of severe contamination!

Spot on! Very well stated!

 

[Old Tiger]

Very interesting thread!!

I applied Opti-Coat 2.0 to my personal car nearly 2 years ago. Reason for application was two fold.

1. So that I could concentrate on customer's cars instead of having to budget time to keep my own car waxed or sealed.

2. So I could torture the living crap out of the Opti-Coat 2.0 application on my own car, in order to see for myself whether an application of it would be something I could confidently offer my customers, or if it would just be another hollow marketing hype type of product that would be more of a liability than an asset for my customers and my detailing business.

I have regularly sprayed a liberal coating of a concentrated alkaline all purpose cleaner onto my car and allowed it to fully dry in direct sunlight, then I re-wet the car and wash it with a wash brush and car wash concentrate to remove any road film that the APC may not have emulsified. For days after washing the car like this, people often times comment on my freshly waxed car. They can't believe it when I tell them that I haven't polished or waxed it in nearly 2 years.

My prep for this particular application was to polish with M-205 followed by PO85RD both via rotary, wash with alkaline degreaser then wipedown with a cheap Glass cleaner (Basically RO water, vinegar and alcohol) and apply Opti-Coat 2.0 very sparingly followed by a very light wiping with a MF towel to smooth out any wet spots from changing directions with the supplied foam applicator.

I believe that if the vehicle is prepped properly, OC or OG should surpass the expectations of any car owner.

I offer OC or OG not as a permanent coating but rather a 2 year coating, informing the customer that the manufacturer calls it a permanent coating but my torture testing is only 2 years into the test.

Just my unsolicited 2 cents. TD

Thanks TD! This is similar to what I see!

 

[Old Tiger]

Thanks for the clarification Chris.

I think we may have uncovered the origin of the issue. Touchless washes use very strong detergents that don't fully remove the road film that accumulates on a vehicle. With experience on interiors, we can learn that not rinsing detergents thoroughly from carpets will actually "attract" dirt faster...and that'd be no different with the exterior. Not fully removing the road film with a hand wash from time to time and a few washes not fully rinsing away the chemicals would allow the surface to start holding contaminants. Just take a white towel with you and dry off the car after a touchless wash to confirm my theory.

The good news is that Opti Coat did not allow them to penetrate like they would have on OEM clear! I'm glad you were able to get to the issue without too much effort. Also, its good to hear you like the polishes. A lot of time has gone into them and we are always trying to improve!

I think you nailed the source of the contimination Chris! The amazing clay bar replacement was a great step after Iron X. Chris, do you want to see a picture?

 

[Chris Thomas]

Of course I do!

 

[Chris Thomas]

I shot this yesterday just to show that things on the surface can change beading. The only time to assume Opti Coat is gone is after your certain there's no film. The science behind Opti Coat creates a bond so strong that it actually becomes part of it...so I never intend to offend customers by suggesting user error...but if you clean it well and it doesn't bead, it has to be in the prep.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/...-8FC9-C6B75213616D-10196-0000047965415CCB.mp4

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