CONFUSED - Induced Holograms With A DA?!?!

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Bates Detailing

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Hey Mike and AG,


Been a bit since being here and I have run across a doozy, so I turn to AG for the answers :dblthumb2:. Heres the case :

A month or so ago we polished an F-650 for a reg client. We washed, clay barred, alc'ed it, then polished it with M205 and a cyclo with white pads. We service this vehicle biweekly to monthly so we regularly keep a thin layer of wax on it.

The next week the client pulled me to the side and pointed out tons of holograms in the sun and insisted we did it. Bollocks I thought to myself - white pads and a cyclo (theres no way!). I told him it needs a correction and we will do that soon for him.


Just the other day, I decided to go ahead and compound, polish, and wax (M105, M205, and Collonite to top off). Well, used light cutting pads and M105 and Holograms were ten times worse! Topped it with M205 and white pads and holograms were still bad :/!?!?!? Wow - I use the cyclo to remove holograms.... its inducing them on this ride!


I have not seen this before - I talked to Tuscadora Dave for about 30 minutes while working on this and he tossed some good ideas out there..... ideas that I couldn't quite perform due to lack of products at the time. What ideas do you have Mike, or all of AG for that matter?!?!??! Have you all dealt with this ?rare? issue before?!?!?!
 
I have worked with soft paint before but has never left Holograms. How old is the F-650?
 
Pureshine said:
I have worked with soft paint before but has never left Holograms. How old is the F-650?
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"Factory Paint" according to client - I believe it is a 2008 I THINK....... soft I don't think is the issue though. While using the least aggressive method and using lite cutting pads to compound, the micro scratches/swirl marks did not budge - but holograms were induced?!?!? Odd Right?!?!
 
Ya very odd I have never had this problem. Hopefully someone
else has the answer.
 
Why dont you try using a different polisher? Maybe your cyclo isnt working how its supposed to? Just a thought.
 
Where does the owner of the vehicle work?....is it near or at an industrial site of some sort? Is it possible the vehicle is getting misted with a layer of ferrous soot or some other foreign substance? I dunno but it almost sounds like there might be something within the very top surface of the paint that you are just pushing around with the Cyclo.....something that washing and claying isn't completely removing.
 
CM8 6MT said:
Why dont you try using a different polisher? Maybe your cyclo isnt working how its supposed to? Just a thought.
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I thought of that only - we polished his black Escalade the same day and no issues...... and we have polished 10 cars + since and no issues. Polishing 1000 cars plus this past 2 years, this is the enigma!
 
Rockeey said:
Where does the owner of the vehicle work?....is it near or at an industrial site of some sort? Is it possible the vehicle is getting misted with a layer of ferrous soot or some other foreign substance? I dunno but it almost sounds like there might be something within the very top surface of the paint that you are just pushing around with the Cyclo.....something that washing and claying isn't completely removing.
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It lived in FL for the first couple of years - but that is all I really know..... factory paint and lived in the salt air?>!?!??!?!
 
would you be able to get any pics? What sort of maring/holograms are they exactly? They cant look like rotary induced holograms right?
 
MirandaAutoSpa said:
would you be able to get any pics? What sort of maring/holograms are they exactly? They cant look like rotary induced holograms right?
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Yes - they look like rotary induced holograms - only induced with a da!?!?!?! Holograms are created by heat right? At least that is what I have learned and told my clients - only these holograms couldn't have been created by heat - because using white pads with M205 and some mild speed behind them, there should be no holograms!?!?!? Slightly confused here lol.
 
This is really puzzling. Maybe try a new polish? Give menz SF4000 on a red/black pad a shot. To my knowledge Megs 105/205 are SMAT, maybe a DAT polish like Menz might finish out better. How thick is the paint?

Come to think of it also, are you detailing in direct sunlight and/or outside? I had a problem with my PC the 3rd time I ever polished. I was in my garage (now my shop/showroom) with the door up in the morning (garage faces east) and I started on my black infiniti FX50 (super soft clear, flat paint), and the wind blew some dust or debris onto the surface. I induced a whole bunch of swirls (dust stuck under pad). Sun heated up the black paint super warm, making it softer

Just a few ideas.
 
B&B Tennessee said:
Yes - they look like rotary induced holograms - only induced with a da!?!?!?! Holograms are created by heat right? At least that is what I have learned and told my clients - only these holograms couldn't have been created by heat - because using white pads with M205 and some mild speed behind them, there should be no holograms!?!?!? Slightly confused here lol.
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I have induced DA type marring on paint before, but it doesnt look like true rotary trails. Hmmmm seems wierd to me......
 
Andr3wilson said:
This is really puzzling. Maybe try a new polish? Give menz SF4000 on a red/black pad a shot. To my knowledge Megs 105/205 are SMAT, maybe a DAT polish like Menz might finish out better. How thick is the paint?

Come to think of it also, are you detailing in direct sunlight and/or outside? I had a problem with my PC the 3rd time I ever polished. I was in my garage (now my shop/showroom) with the door up in the morning (garage faces east) and I started on my black infiniti FX50 (super soft clear, flat paint), and the wind blew some dust or debris onto the surface. I induced a whole bunch of swirls (dust stuck under pad). Sun heated up the black paint super warm, making it softer

Just a few ideas.
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MirandaAutoSpa said:
I have induced DA type marring on paint before, but it doesnt look like true rotary trails. Hmmmm seems wierd to me......
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This has nothing to do with marring..... only holograms! I can remove all marring easily - but leaving holograms all over the black truck will make it look like a hack job :/ Marring no problem - Holograms being created by the cyclo - BIG Problem!
 
This one is going to be interesting. I bet you are frustrated at this point. If holograms are caused by heat, how is heat transfer occuring with the DA? When I correct my Honda's ridiculously soft paint, at high speed with a cutting pad, the panel gets "warm" to the touch. I just dont see a DA inducing holograms unless theres other elements that you might not be aware of like others have stated. Its definitely not the fault of M105/205, for someone to suggest that I find rather comical.
 
B&B Tennessee said:
This has nothing to do with marring..... only holograms! I can remove all marring easily - but leaving holograms all over the black truck will make it look like a hack job :/ Marring no problem - Holograms being created by the cyclo - BIG Problem!
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Sorry man, that is so wierd! Can you try to polishing with a PCXP and see if it changes anything? I have never used the Cyclo, but I would assume that the motion of both DA tools would be the same? PCXP+Finishing Pad+M205=Hologram free?
 
I dont know why but my money says get rid of the cyclo for this car, get a different type of DA, fresh new pad & start clean. You have to do a little process of elimination because at this point its going to be any ones guess. Unless someone who has experienced this before can chime in.
 
MirandaAutoSpa said:
Sorry man, that is so wierd! Can you try to polishing with a PCXP and see if it changes anything? I have never used the Cyclo, but I would assume that the motion of both DA tools would be the same? PCXP+Finishing Pad+M205=Hologram free?
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No apology needed lol - Thanks for your input and advice! Should be hologram free - YES, is it...... NO?!?!?!
 
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