air filter

I didn't realize that about the API, gotta check into that one!

I figured that if its OEM for high end rides like Porsche that my little 1.5L 122 hp 4 pot would do good by it.

The Blackstone lab test was $30.00 last time I checked and you've gotta wait a couple seconds after pulling the drainplug to get your sample, goes in a clear tube of some type and you send it in. I've saved this thread and will report back to the class when I change the oil which is going to pretty soon, I'm at 32k.

As far as the air filters go, well, dry flow is an option but since my K&N typhoon intake kit came with the one you oil, well, I'll stick with it. I have to clean it more often (yes, I know....don't over oil, I don't) but that's ok with me.

Not only does our group carry bags and bags of detailing supplies but let's admit it right now, we've got pocket protectors too, LOL.

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So what about M1 in an enclosed environment like a bmw, which has no drain plug? I've been thinking of stitch to Castoil on the next change but all of our cars are rated at 15k per oil change...

Lucky Joe,
Wannabe Detailer

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Blackstone is $25 for their analysis. The kit is free and you don't pay till you send it in. TBN analysis is an additional $10, which measures the amount of active additive left in the oil. And yes, they want oil from the middle of the pour when draining it.

They said I could probably go to 5k intervals in my last test, but I'm still sticking with 3k. Running Valvoline SynPower and a Motorcraft filter.
 
Blackstone is $25 for their analysis. The kit is free and you don't pay till you send it in. TBN analysis is an additional $10, which measures the amount of active additive left in the oil. And yes, they want oil from the middle of the pour when draining it.

They said I could probably go to 5k intervals in my last test, but I'm still sticking with 3k. Running Valvoline SynPower and a Motorcraft filter.

Thanks Chris, I'll be paying that extra $10 because that's the most important thing to me, all that other info I'm going to need additional education to understand all that info, LOL!

I appreciate all the info here and so has everyone else and future members who stumple upon it.

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I didn't realize that about the API, gotta check into that one! I figured that if its OEM for high end rides like Porsche that my little 1.5L 122 hp 4 pot would do good by it.

Let's not get mixed up, you said you use the M1 EP, no one uses the EP as a factory fill because the API says it poisons your catalysts. (The EP was created when the API eliminated or reduced the allowable ZDP content) The regular M1 formulations meet the latest API rating.
 
I dont see the big worry in going 15-20k hell even 100k oil change. As long as your having your oil checked via oil sample manufacture will let you know when to change. (Speaking on the half of amsoil) im reading a lot of well im comfortable with only changing at the longest of "x" miles.... take 30 seconds swab your stick put a 43cent or whatever stamps cost on it and wait for your graphs and information to come back... a warm and fuzzy isnt science... ill take science over gut feeling any day especially when the oil manufacture will warantee the motor. Go talk to your dealer if your under warantee both my vw's dealer had no problem honoring the warrantee as long as oil test samples were done every 10k or at the manufacture oil change intervals my 2012 golf tdi is at 32k miles and amsoil has been in it since 1000 miles..... amsoil if mobile 1 says its good for 15 im sure it is... oils and other synthetic fluids have come such a long way..

What what???? Swabs? That doesn't sound like it'd be even close to working. Pulling a sample off the dipstick isn't the same as from the (oil) suspension itself. I'm with others here, I thought all the labs wanted 3 ounces, (well at least 2+).

Oil analysis is an extremely valuable tool in a fleet environment where the engines have large crankcases, are operated for long idle times, driven for extended periods, over extended miles and used for heavy hauling. Also it is a great tool for manufacturers/dealerships if for no other reason than to CYA before having to pay for a new engine.

The objective purpose of regular analysis is to maximize equipment reliability by finding and realizing minor problems before they turn into major repairs. The only way that works however is by regular, frequent, monitoring and developing a history of what is happening inside the engine as it goes through the life cycle.

However there has to be an initial starting point and a trend established before a program can be used to monitor changes occurring within the engine. Using systematic intervals accounting for the lubricant time inside the engine, as well as the engine time (how long it has been in service) will need to be established and tracked. Taking ‘random’ samples provides nothing of use in the day to day operation of the engine.

The object is to monitor the engine for abnormal conditions and take action before those conditions lead to a catastrophic failure.

However for most all private owners (IE us) that drive cars as DD’s (daily drivers), doing regular maintenance, at scheduled oil change intervals, the value of testing may not validate the cost incurred. The theory is most, (not all) owners of passenger vehicles tend to drive them for less than 100,000 miles and get a new one. While engine failures of the oil related kind can occur within this range, it is highly unlikely as long as the oil has been changed with some sort of regular interval.

Furthermore, there are increasing numbers of manufacturers nowadays that warranty the engine for 100,000 miles anyway. ;) That being said, perhaps starting a monitoring program once the engine starts to approach the end of the warranty period would help not only to keep ahead of impending problems but also as a tool to keep the engine in service for years to come.

The cost of a typical analysis is what, $25.00 on average? Not draining the oil and only changing a filter plus adding a quart adds another $10.00~$15.00 to that cost.
How much is an oil change? Even with synthetic oil at over the counter prices (on sale) there are plenty of well respected brands available, with a very good filter and up to 6 quarts for $30.00~$35.00.

So at 10K you do an analysis, that’s $35.00~$40.00. Then at 20K another one, then say at 30K do a change. With the initial change at $35.00 and every analysis the same or more cost incurred then there is no cost savings whatsoever.

WITHOUT an already established trend of oil analysis in place it would be ludicrous to consider extended oil change periods. Using analysis to get away with, or try to justify extended oil changes in an engine where the cost of the analysis is equal to or greater than the oil change itself just doesn’t make sense as a value savings tool. Where regular analysis does save money is in high volume crankcases resulting in optimal run times of the lubicrant and substantial savings between changes. (Like in a 6.5 gallon crankcase the savings would be well over $100 if just skipping one change.)

My suggestion would be change the oil, change it regularly, and on schedule. Sending in a sample is a fine way to keep track of what is going on inside the engine. And something that everyone should do if they want to really know what is going on inside their engine.
 
I hate oil threads, every car forum I am on has several and they always end up going down the same road. Oh wait, this is an air filter thread, they usually end up turning into oil threads...........:argue:
 
Ha, cardaddy, I think for some the oil analysis thing is just a little OCD behavior like having a lot of waxes or discussing whether Spar or Opti-Lens is going to last longer on your headlights. I think over at Bob Is The Oil Guy forum, a lot of the oil analysis is used to compare brands of oils or reformulations of the same brand, just like someone here would compare an LSP for longevity. ("The SN M1 is giving me higher wear numbers than the SM did so I"m going to change to Castrol because people seem to be getting better results than that"). I did have to chuckle when I realized you're right that $25-35 for an analysis is the cost of the material for an oil change.
 
Am I wrong to just get one oil test and call it a day for a while? Now I'm not a Honda snob one bit but I know they make great engines, so getting a test done @35k should tie me over for a while.

Forgot who posted this earlier, sorry but regular M1 has the API rating I need and not M1 EP? Why in the world would Mobil make an oil that's more expensive but is said to last 15k and it not have the proper API rating for any car, well just about any?

I decided to try M1 EP so I didn't do unnecessary oil changes too soon and save money in the process. My factory oil change is at 10k according to the maintence minder and from what I was told they (Honda) use Texaco oil or something like that, so to me the use of a synthetic like M1 would be better than that and when combined with an EP oil filter like the one M1 offers would easily let me do this, the test will determine if I'm on the right track here or if I need to change my "evil ways" (Santana), LOL.



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Forgot who posted this earlier, sorry but regular M1 has the API rating I need and not M1 EP? Why in the world would Mobil make an oil that's more expensive but is said to last 15k and it not have the proper API rating for any car, well just about any?

It was me. I'm looking at the Mobil 1 site and it appears the EP now meets the latest API rating, so I gave you old info. If you look at Bob is the Oil Guy forum, I think you will find that when the SM rating came out with the limits on ZDP, was when Mobil came out with the EP to essentially continue the SL formulation. I haven't looked into this for a while, so it appears things didn't continue that way. Sorry if I got you worried over nothing.
 
No problem Setec and once again because of this more, updated and most imortantly correct info is given to the group, that's the most important thing here.

This is why I can't wait to get the test done. Does anyone think you really, truely need to do the test every 10k on a DD?

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I hate oil threads, every car forum I am on has several and they always end up going down the same road. Oh wait, this is an air filter thread, they usually end up turning into oil threads...........

Yep, almost like we've been reading each others mail! ;)

I'm just glad it's here on AG, because over at bobistheoilguy I got bored DECADES ago with all the tech jargon. :)

And let's PLEASE not get started on "hyper-milers"..... :eek:


Ha, cardaddy, I think for some the oil analysis thing is just a little OCD behavior like having a lot of waxes or discussing whether Spar or Opti-Lens is going to last longer on your headlights. I think over at Bob Is The Oil Guy forum, a lot of the oil analysis is used to compare brands of oils or reformulations of the same brand, just like someone here would compare an LSP for longevity. ("The SN M1 is giving me higher wear numbers than the SM did so I"m going to change to Castrol because people seem to be getting better results than that"). I did have to chuckle when I realized you're right that $25-35 for an analysis is the cost of the material for an oil change.

OCD is exactly the catagory I file it under. I've never done it on passenger cars, just doesn't make financial sense. But I did do it with my fleet trucks. Not so much with the Fords as the crankcase wasn't large enough to justify the cost, but when I started running CAT's at 6.5 gallons they went to CAT and it did indeed save me both time and money. Never skipped an oil change, but... was able to optimize the running hours and miles of the oil where it wasn't changed too soon, nor too late. ;)

The side benefit was where the Ford/International V8 diesels you NEEDED to sell before they hit 250,000 miles, the CAT engines drove as good at 250,000 as they did with 250 miles. I wouldn't even consider looking inside those engines (other than injectors) till they hit 500,000. :)

Am I wrong to just get one oil test and call it a day for a while? Now I'm not a Honda snob one bit but I know they make great engines, so getting a test done @35k should tie me over for a while.

...... the test will determine if I'm on the right track here or if I need to change my "evil ways" (Santana), LOL.

I would say YES (and no). To explain; oil analysis is a tool to be considered along with regular scheduled maintenence. Doing it just once in the middle of the usable lifetime of an engine does nothing but give you a "right here, right now" picture of what is going on inside the engine. You may show high lead for instance and that doesn't mean you have a failure, but it COULD. Might be a particle worked into a crank bearing that threw up the lead figure FOR THAT PERIOD. Next (oil) period it can (and often does) reduce and level out. Without doing at least 3~4 analysis in a row you don't know what is really happening over the long run, only what was happening at the point of the sample.

Picture it this way, you're standing at the start finish line of a race and take a photo half way through. Did that tell you who won the race? Or even tell you who ran good up until that point? The only way to tell is take a photo every time they come by. :rolleyes:

That is something that concerns me about doing a swab sample for instance. Checking oil that is stuck to the dipstick (or anything else for that matter) will show everything that has been deposited and STUCK to the metal in that area. In a different area of the crankcase you'll get different readings, like in a high temp area under the heads, or a high friction area at the crank journals. Taking it from the same place over time, YES gives you a better idea, but only then. That's why they require you not only send in 3 ounces, but get it from the middle of a drain flow.

FWIW industrial applications where they send in regular samples are not there for skipping oil changes, they are there to know what is going on inside the machinery. When you're running a $100,000 engine that is load critical you just figure that cost into your long-term operating cost. It's certainly not a way to skip a crankcase drain. Although after a trend has been established, you THEN know how long you can leave the lubricant inside the crankcase and optimize it's use over that time frame. ;)
 
How about tires.....I've got many friends running the same tires as me, Continental DWS' and get this, some get 20-25k out of them (Mazdaspeed 3's), another one, a Saab 9-5 wagon got 33k and right now my fiance has almost 30k and they're at 7/32nd's and just yesterday I had mine rotated and balanced and get this, with 25k on the tires I was at 9/32nd's on the rear and 8/32nd's oon the front, before rotation. All of us except my fiance do a lot of freeway driving to and from work, mine is a true 50/50 mix and my one buddy, Derek0609, does about 85% highway and only can get 20-25k out of his. We've come to the conclusion its based on suspension tune/set-up from the factory compared to my car as well as the vehicle weight and ofcoarse performance, pretty easy to turn the tires when you've got a MS3, although Derek isn't very hard on his cars. His wife that em' on the Saab wagon did about 85% highway but again, heavier vehicle with more power.

Now, back on topic and you guys will appreciate this. In the mid 90's I worked for a tool coating company and was chosen to be in charge of our 3 vans for all maintence and we got a brand new 97' GMC Safari. The driver drove about 1500 miles a week, almost all highway, fast forward to about 80k where the oil pump was replaced and that was the last time the engine was opened up, we sold the van when we outsourced van service in the spring of 2005 where the van reached 656k....remember, the engine was never opened up after the oil pump was replaced and that's all they replaced too! At about 250k or so I convinced the boss that we need to run synthetic because of the miles we were running, I was changing the oil every 2 weeks, that got moved to once a month or 6k. The plugs were changed at 100k and the trans service was done every 30k, first just doing the filter and gasket change and then the T-tech machine at the 30k interval and then the filter and gasket and then back to the machine and that also worked, very well indeed because the trans never ever came out of the truck while it was in service with us. The van had 129 visits to the Valvoline oil change shop where I was on first name basis with them and grew to be good friends with them infact. I even ran Michelin X-One's on that van and got 100k out of a set, rotated and balanced about once a month. To this day I wonder how long that van lasted but I know this, it wasn't maintained like I maintained it, that's for sure! The coolant was done twice a year and the radiator made it 300k and the water pump made it 329k, change those fluids and things happen I say. I even called GM when it hit 3 or 400k to tell them about the van and they offered me a free oil change, LOL! I wasn't looking for a freebie but rather a look into a vehicle to show them what they did right, that's all. The one thing you could count on with the Safari's was it eating idler arms about every 30-40k, had the alignment done every 25k or so and it was a very common problem with the vans design but since we took care of it, it never ate the tires shoulders up.

The above van would've been a great engine to do the oil tests on, who knows, maybe we could've left the oil in longer than 6k and gotten the same life out of it, you never know.

One thing I should've insisted on was using a K&N in our vans but didn't think of it, oh well, water under that bridge now, a lot of water, LOL!

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