I give up

hernandez.art13 said:
Now I know why you guys always tell somebody that first introduces themselves and says they have all the products they need with there first order.

Welcome and you'll get addicted to more purchases... Haha

I'm officially hooked lol
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Menzerna s4000 here i come

Sorry for double post, meant to edit not repost
 
FivePoint.0 said:
I spend more money on detailing products than anything else. :laughing:

SF4000 is a great all around finishing polish! :dblthumb2:
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You're preaching to the choir Mark!! :laughing:

BUT......in our defense, this is the way we're able to try different and more importantly new products introduced to the market.

I couple of weeks ago I added a bottle of Menzerna FG-400 to an order. Last weekend I had the opportunity to try it out on a heavily swirled black 2011 Hyundai Elantra. While I did expect it to do some heavy duty defect removal I did not expect it to finish up so damn nice. :props:
 
FivePoint.0 said:
Yes, M205 is acceptable on HARD clears.



Do you mean DAT?
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I do actually mean SMAT. I personally feel that you do need to work it to a certain point before you can stop. If you do 2 section passes you haven't allow the product to correct its own haze and "possible holograms" yet. Understand what I'm saying.

Ex. If you work 105 right is almost disappeas and at that point its really done its job and looks great.
 
Theostoubos said:
M205, Blue Pad on a PC is a combo that has produced constantly high results.

Don't mean to criticize but it sounds that there might be a need for adjusting your technique. If the paint is soft maybe you should go lighter on the pressure and work the polish a bit longer.

Something that worked for you in the past doesn't mean that works in every car.

Work methodically and in small areas to eliminate what is going wrong.
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Ive said this already, my technique is fine. This is not my first time using a PC. Far from it

Xplosive Detail said:
Maybe stop trying such aggreesive products. Try a black pad and some 106fa/sf4000. Ive used 205 on a black to clean up corvette clear which is notoriously hardwith great results. So not sure why 205 is not working for you. Again use some DAT finishing polishes on a black pad. Try a new test area and work the product until it looks like your spreafing butter. You could be causing the swirls by stopping early with SMAT.
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I have already posted before that i tried m205 on a black pad, and other combinations. Trust me, im working the polish long enough

Xplosive Detail said:
I do actually mean SMAT. I personally feel that you do need to work it to a certain point before you can stop. If you do 2 section passes you haven't allow the product to correct its own haze and "possible holograms" yet. Understand what I'm saying.

Ex. If you work 105 right is almost disappeas and at that point its really done its job and looks great.
Click to expand...
M105 is SMAT, M205 is DAT...
 
I've been working with a newbie through e-mails who is wanting to polish the paint on his black 04 Cobra Terminator. I've used this thread as an example to highlight some of the stuff that we've been discussing.

To the OP of this thread...Please understand that I mean no disrespect by using your thread in an off forum setting and that all things written in this reply are directly written to help this guy with his black Cobra. I hope you won't be offended in any way and I only posted this in hopes that it may help others moving forward. TD

Copy and paste from my e-mail.

Good morning Daren.

Take a look at this shopping cart, Shopping Cart and then read over this thread at AG http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/64572-i-give-up.html It goes to show that there can be hurdles to overcome as far as finishing goes. Pay particular attention to post number 10 where the test section is mentioned. He should have dialed in his process from start to finish in one test section, and then pulled the car out into natural sunlight to see how it looked before proceeding on with polishing the rest of the car. Now check out post 21 where the OP gets frustrated and begins throwing all sorts of different combinations at the problem. He goes from a compound (TSR 3.0) that is a bit more aggressive than light to medium, then to a finishing polish (M-205) and then back to a sledgehammer of a heavy hitter compound (M-105) M-105 is like a quiet little man who carries a big stick. It’s much more aggressive than it appears to be. All the while he has the machine on speed 5 using different pads. In his first post he mentions using an orange pad which can be a very aggressive cutting pad depending on the manufacturer of the pad. All orange pads are too aggressive to finish dark colored paints to a wet glossy finish.

This supports what I’ve said about knowing your products and how to use them. This guy is learning like we all learn, through trial and error. A little sound guidance along the way is always helpful. He never mentions what flashlight he’s using to see these marks in the paint that he’s not liking. The common sense in all this lies here… How many folks are toting a flashlight around in their pocket at the Cruise In, and how many are gonna pull it out and aim it at your paint looking for swirls at the car show. Probably never happen. They will however be viewing your paint in direct sunlight. There is a reason Mike Phillips calls the Brinkman Swirl Finder flashlight the “Cruel Master”.

So the OP in this thread is using a PC and a white pad combined with a diminishing abrasive compound/polish on speed 5 (less than max speed) judging by the confusion of his cries for help, I’d wager a bet that he’s quite inexperienced at the whole deal and has less than great technique at keeping the pad rotation at an acceptable level. Using a quite underpowered machine to begin with, and running that underpowered machine at less than full speed, probably with not enough pressure and pad rotation (because this is really hard to achieve with an underpowered machine) to fully break down the diminishing abrasives in the TSR 3.0 so the end result of wrong product, wrong machine, not enough pad rotation on a pad that perhaps is too big (I didn’t see what size pad he’s using) probably allowing the pad to travel across the paint at too fast a rate of arm speed, (should be about 1 inch of machine travel per every second) It’s a total recipe for confusion to a less experienced paint polisher.

The Harbor Freight machine is significantly more powerful than a Porter Cable 7424XP but should still be run at max speed with the HF pads. The HF pads are 6” pads where the PC kits purchased at AG typically have 6.5” pads (a total mismatch of pad per machine performance) so people start off at a disadvantage when they buy these kits.

Technique consists of having the pad flat in the right proportion, the right amount of applied pressure or down force, and the right machine angle to take full advantage of the centripetal force that the machine’s free rotating spindle assembly has to offer. This free rotating spindle assembly is like a cantankerous, spoiled, hard to please woman. You need to constantly give her just what she wants, in the proportions that she wants it to keep her performing for you. The things that she wants are applied downward pressure, the right angle of pressure on her moving parts, and she loves to go fast. (speed 6) Problem is that the car and all of its panels are differently shaped and at differing angles, so the things that the free rotating spindle assembly wants or requires to perform well are constantly changing so you just need to adjust your machine angle and downward pressure as you go to keep the pad rotation you need to achieve your paint polishing goals. Add in the abrasive’s breakdown pressure and time and the amount of work time against the paint to allow the combination to work flawlessly and it can take a good bit of practice to get it all figured out.

This is why test sections (working it all out in one smaller area of the car until you get it all right from start to finish) is so important. The OP is concerned about having wasted 5 hours of his life and achieving less that desirable results, the reality of his situation is that he’ll likely spend 20 more hours figuring all of it out and getting his car looking the way he wants it to look. Work it out in one smaller area of the car (from start to finish) and if you can’t figure it out in that area take a break and regroup your thoughts, ask questions of more experienced paint polishers, have a toke, a beer or whatever it is that calms you back down and go back at it in that section with renewed thinking and a newly adjusted plan of attack. (preferably with a less abrasive pad and product if you’ll just be guessing as to what to do next.) The last thing you’ll want to do is to continue on to other areas of the car…especially if the “Cruise In” is only a few days away.

It will be much more advantageous to you to start out with a polishing pad on your black Cobra with M-205 Meguiars Mirror Glaze #205 Ultra Finishing Polish, final polish, Meguiars polishes, car polish, 205 FP which is a light to medium polish that contains (SMAT or Super Micro Abrasive Technology) abrasives that do not require the advanced skill or added techniques to break down the abrasives. These SMAT abrasives are harder and way finer than traditional diminishing abrasives and require very little to no expertise to use. It will only require more polishing time to remove anything deeper than light swirl marks,(it will remove deeper stuff with more time worked against the paint.) but at least you don’t end up with buffer haze all over your test section or worse yet all over the car if you decide not to heed the advice about working from start to finish in one smaller test section. If the M-205 and polishing pad doesn’t achieve the wet looking gloss you are after, step down to a finishing pad and M-205 and rework the section with several passes with the finishing pad. Stick with one product and master it before jumping around to different products trying to achieve a result you see more experienced paint polishers achieving.

I’ve written enough for one setting. Have a great Sunday and call if you need to. TD
 
tuscarora dave said:
... Stick with one product and master it before jumping around to different products trying to achieve a result you see more experienced paint polishers achieving.
Click to expand...

Sage advice that's helped me in more than one occasion. TuscaroraDave was the man who gave me that advice...you helped me learn so much about using a particular Meguiar's product and how to use it with different pads...and how important it is at times to shrink the work area down below what is the norm.:props:
 
Ok guys so after going over the car with a blue pad and V36 (best results) I pulled it out the sun. It's looks perfect lol even though there are holograms visible when I'm in the garage, I can see one outside. I guesse ill be putting on the 22ple in a little bit :D even though I'm still confused about the whole situation in general lol
 
Im the MAN
tuscarora dave said:
I've been working with a newbie through e-mails who is wanting to polish the paint on his black 04 Cobra Terminator. I've used this thread as an example to highlight some of the stuff that we've been discussing.

To the OP of this thread...Please understand that I mean no disrespect by using your thread in an off forum setting and that all things written in this reply are directly written to help this guy with his black Cobra. I hope you won't be offended in any way and I only posted this in hopes that it may help others moving forward. TD

Copy and paste from my e-mail.

Good morning Daren.

Take a look at this shopping cart, Shopping Cart and then read over this thread at AG http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/64572-i-give-up.html It goes to show that there can be hurdles to overcome as far as finishing goes. Pay particular attention to post number 10 where the test section is mentioned. He should have dialed in his process from start to finish in one test section, and then pulled the car out into natural sunlight to see how it looked before proceeding on with polishing the rest of the car. Now check out post 21 where the OP gets frustrated and begins throwing all sorts of different combinations at the problem. He goes from a compound (TSR 3.0) that is a bit more aggressive than light to medium, then to a finishing polish (M-205) and then back to a sledgehammer of a heavy hitter compound (M-105) M-105 is like a quiet little man who carries a big stick. It’s much more aggressive than it appears to be. All the while he has the machine on speed 5 using different pads. In his first post he mentions using an orange pad which can be a very aggressive cutting pad depending on the manufacturer of the pad. All orange pads are too aggressive to finish dark colored paints to a wet glossy finish.

This supports what I’ve said about knowing your products and how to use them. This guy is learning like we all learn, through trial and error. A little sound guidance along the way is always helpful. He never mentions what flashlight he’s using to see these marks in the paint that he’s not liking. The common sense in all this lies here… How many folks are toting a flashlight around in their pocket at the Cruise In, and how many are gonna pull it out and aim it at your paint looking for swirls at the car show. Probably never happen. They will however be viewing your paint in direct sunlight. There is a reason Mike Phillips calls the Brinkman Swirl Finder flashlight the “Cruel Master”.

So the OP in this thread is using a PC and a white pad combined with a diminishing abrasive compound/polish on speed 5 (less than max speed) judging by the confusion of his cries for help, I’d wager a bet that he’s quite inexperienced at the whole deal and has less than great technique at keeping the pad rotation at an acceptable level. Using a quite underpowered machine to begin with, and running that underpowered machine at less than full speed, probably with not enough pressure and pad rotation (because this is really hard to achieve with an underpowered machine) to fully break down the diminishing abrasives in the TSR 3.0 so the end result of wrong product, wrong machine, not enough pad rotation on a pad that perhaps is too big (I didn’t see what size pad he’s using) probably allowing the pad to travel across the paint at too fast a rate of arm speed, (should be about 1 inch of machine travel per every second) It’s a total recipe for confusion to a less experienced paint polisher.

The Harbor Freight machine is significantly more powerful than a Porter Cable 7424XP but should still be run at max speed with the HF pads. The HF pads are 6” pads where the PC kits purchased at AG typically have 6.5” pads (a total mismatch of pad per machine performance) so people start off at a disadvantage when they buy these kits.

Technique consists of having the pad flat in the right proportion, the right amount of applied pressure or down force, and the right machine angle to take full advantage of the centripetal force that the machine’s free rotating spindle assembly has to offer. This free rotating spindle assembly is like a cantankerous, spoiled, hard to please woman. You need to constantly give her just what she wants, in the proportions that she wants it to keep her performing for you. The things that she wants are applied downward pressure, the right angle of pressure on her moving parts, and she loves to go fast. (speed 6) Problem is that the car and all of its panels are differently shaped and at differing angles, so the things that the free rotating spindle assembly wants or requires to perform well are constantly changing so you just need to adjust your machine angle and downward pressure as you go to keep the pad rotation you need to achieve your paint polishing goals. Add in the abrasive’s breakdown pressure and time and the amount of work time against the paint to allow the combination to work flawlessly and it can take a good bit of practice to get it all figured out.

This is why test sections (working it all out in one smaller area of the car until you get it all right from start to finish) is so important. The OP is concerned about having wasted 5 hours of his life and achieving less that desirable results, the reality of his situation is that he’ll likely spend 20 more hours figuring all of it out and getting his car looking the way he wants it to look. Work it out in one smaller area of the car (from start to finish) and if you can’t figure it out in that area take a break and regroup your thoughts, ask questions of more experienced paint polishers, have a toke, a beer or whatever it is that calms you back down and go back at it in that section with renewed thinking and a newly adjusted plan of attack. (preferably with a less abrasive pad and product if you’ll just be guessing as to what to do next.) The last thing you’ll want to do is to continue on to other areas of the car…especially if the “Cruise In” is only a few days away.

It will be much more advantageous to you to start out with a polishing pad on your black Cobra with M-205 Meguiars Mirror Glaze #205 Ultra Finishing Polish, final polish, Meguiars polishes, car polish, 205 FP which is a light to medium polish that contains (SMAT or Super Micro Abrasive Technology) abrasives that do not require the advanced skill or added techniques to break down the abrasives. These SMAT abrasives are harder and way finer than traditional diminishing abrasives and require very little to no expertise to use. It will only require more polishing time to remove anything deeper than light swirl marks,(it will remove deeper stuff with more time worked against the paint.) but at least you don’t end up with buffer haze all over your test section or worse yet all over the car if you decide not to heed the advice about working from start to finish in one smaller test section. If the M-205 and polishing pad doesn’t achieve the wet looking gloss you are after, step down to a finishing pad and M-205 and rework the section with several passes with the finishing pad. Stick with one product and master it before jumping around to different products trying to achieve a result you see more experienced paint polishers achieving.

I’ve written enough for one setting. Have a great Sunday and call if you need to. TD
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It's ok. But just to clarify, my technique is not an issue. I old say its damn near perfect. I've worked on my car before with everything going well. It's just for some reason these strange defects, particularly one quarter panel and the bumper, will not come off. I've tried every possible pad and product combination I could do. TRUST me, my technique will trying these test spots was fine. Nonetheless, when I pull the car out outside, it's darn near flawless. I guess from now on ill check my work with sunlight more often :D
 
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