New to scratch removal w/ questions.

Ya this is for sure a job for wet sanding. I would not attempt it without a PTG though. If you go through the clear coat it could very easily be money out of your pocket. This is one of those jobs where since you have never wet-sanded the risk is far far far greater than the reward in my opinion.

You can try to compound it, but that is asking a lot out of any compound. Compounds are not really designed to take out scratches like this. Thats what wet sanding is for. If I were you (since you dont know how to wet sand) I would get my hands on a microfiber cutting pad and some FG400.
 
Yeah wet sanding isn't an option. I've never done anything above simple swirl remover because I simply do this part time and I'm not in the business of burning clearcoat.

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I'll update you guys tomorrow. I'm going to give it a shot with what I have just for the experience. The guy is a captain at my firehouse and if it isn't fixed by what I toss at it, I'll send him to a buddy of mine with a body shop that can get the scratches out.

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I'll update you guys tomorrow. I'm going to give it a shot with what I have just for the experience. The guy is a captain at my firehouse and if it isn't fixed by what I toss at it, I'll send him to a buddy of mine with a body shop that can get the scratches out.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AG Online

Check out AmmoNYC on Youtube. I remember I have seen a video that explains how the wet sand works to take out scratches.
 
If this were brought to me, I would say it will cost you $50 dollars for just that spot ONLY.

And please sign here, here and here. Lol (So I am not responsible for any damages lol)

Then I would bust out my 3M rubbing compound a wool pad and my rotary.

The scratches would be reduced but nowhere near fixed.

That looks like a lost cause.

(Just trying to be helpful)

My professional advice to you Mfrickman, just don't touch so your not responsible for anything. Good luck
 
I think if you started out with an 800 grit sanding disk you and the owner would be very surprised by the results (in a good way)

#800 grit? Really? That's REALLY aggressive.

Too aggressive in my opinion for a factory finish especially an older factory finish. Also too aggressive for anyone that doesn't have any experience wetsanding.

To use such a low grit you would also then have to follow this with less aggressive sanding papers to refine and remove the deep #800 grit sanding marks so at some point a person could then safely buff out the last set of sanding marks.

All that sanding and then compounding and then polishing is a recipe for an accident of factory hard and factory thin paint.

The only people I know that use sandpaper that aggressive are painters that purposefully sprayed extra clear on on a custom paint job so they know they have the material or film-build to sand on safely as they work through the sanding process for a show car finish.

Boat detailers might also use sandpaper this aggressive and people prepping molds in the fiberglas industry. Others that use this aggressive of a paper would be people sanding really bad aluminum.

If this truck has the factory paint and it's a "Daily Driver", then the most aggressive I would get is #3000 by machine. Anything more aggressive than this might remove more of the scratches but it's going to leave whisper thin layer of clear behind and it's just a daily driver.





I have never wetsanded and I am slightly intimidated by it.

The whole truck is bombarded with swirls by a detailer down the street he's been taking it to for years and I think this is an opportunity to upsell some correction work.

So the truck has already been buffed by others before you and this means others before you have already removed a measurable amount of the factory clear coat.

This means what's left is thinner that what came from the factory and too thin to sand safely.



I've had a client ask me if I can tackle this:

cxKGmMZ.jpg


The most aggressive thing I have is CG's AIO.

I don't do much more than swirl removal so this is new to me.

Will I need a compound to tackle this? I have a PC with LC pads.


Couple of comments and then a suggestion...

First, it's hard to tell from the picture but just taking a guess from the picture and the information presented so far in this thread, this truck looks like,

A: A daily driver work truck.

B: An older truck.

C: A truck that has been worked on for some measure of time by other detailers.

Taking all three points above and the products and experience you listed, here's what you could do and here's what I would do...


First...

Educate your customer...

Grab a 3M Post-it Note and explain to him that the factory clear layer of paint is thinner than the post-it note and have him hold the post-it note between his fingers like I show in my how-to book.

This will DRIVE HOME THE POINT of how thin the ORIGINAL factory paint was then explain it's probably thinner now due to being detailed over the years.

Then explain that all the UV protection is in the clear layer, the less clear, the less UV protection and the greater the risk for clear coat failure down the road. Point out to him a car with clear coat failure so he can "see" what that term means.

By doing the above you will haven just,

A: Educated your customer.
B: Separated yourself from your competition by showing your customer you actually"know something" about this trade.
C: Will have done him a huge favor by educating him even if you don't do the work.

Second...

Under promise and over deliver.

You do this by saying this,

Because the clear layer of paint is thin and this is your daily driver work truck, I know how to safely buff this section of paint to make these scratches a LOT LESS NOTICEABLE but without removing so much paint as to burn through it or creating a greater risk for clear coat failure down the road.


Right now the scratches are VERY visible because when a clear layer of paint is scratched the scratches are OPAQUE and with a dark color under the clear it makes the scratches very easy to see and even unsightly.

By safely compounding the area and the polishing and waxing you'll make the majority of scratches visible disappear to the point that any owner of a daily driver after you have educated them be able to live with what's leftover.


You'll look like the hero and the truck will look good.


If you don't have a compound, then get either the M105 or the UC and buff this area using a foam cutting pad. Then you can either polish it with a less aggressive polish and then seal with a wax or paint sealant or you could just follow the compounding step with a one-step cleaner/wax.


If you haven't read my article below, take a moment to read through it and I think you'll see how it makes sense to match your services to your customer.

A few tips on starting a part-time detailing business
Match your services to your customer



Since you've never wetsanded before, don't use a customer's vehicle to learn and practice wetsanding. Get a junker panel from a salvage yard or a body shop and learn on something that won't matter if you make a mistake.

Do you own a rotary buffer? If not, then you shouldn't be wetsanding a customer car anyways as factory hard paints can be very difficult to remove sanding marks out of 100% using a DA Polisher or by hand. You also don't want to be practicing how to use a rotary buffer to remove sanding marks on a customer car.


KISS - Keep it Simple Simon

Under promise and over deliver and you'll be doing your customer a favor and you'll be taking the safe approach for doing the repair work on this truck.

There's a huge difference between working on a daily driver and a show car or a Special Interest Vehicle and part of masting the craft of detailing is knowing how to determine what is what.
 
Here's a picture from my how-to book showing how thin a Post-It Note is...

FactoryThinPaint.JPG



You don't want to be sanding paint this thin with #800 grit sanding paper.



Here's what clear coat failure looks like, kind of like the paint has a rash.


The Clearcoat Failure Photo Gallery Archive


ClearCoatFailure008.jpg




Do good work but also work safely.


Looking forward to progress with this project...


:dblthumb2:
 
#800 grit? Really? That's REALLY aggressive.

Yep. 800 is what I would start with

It's been my expeirence sanding discs are only half as aggressive as traditional sandpaper. In other words an 800 grit sanding disc equates to 1500 grit in traditional sandpaper

When questioning my good friend (and mentor in sanding) Kevin Brown about my findings he explained to me how you can do just as much damage using 3,000 grit discs as you can a lower grade. He was saying something about when using a higher grade disc, you have to make A LOT more passes. Doing this removes more clear coat then if you just went with a lower grade in the first place. I hate to put words in his mouth, but I think what he meant was by starting with a lower grade, less passes would be needed, thus less clear coat is actually removed. I can't say I comprehended everything he was saying, he was getting very excited talking about this and I was afraid he was going to hyperventilate and die, so I just agreed

I removed similiar dog scratches as to what the OP has posted just a few weeks ago. I wouldn't just post this information for the sake of raising my post count :D

Kevin is a member here. Would it be okay if I emailed him this thread so he can explain this for himself?

P.S. I heard you got married while I was away. Congratualations man !!!! :props:
 
Yep. 800 is what I would start with

It's been my expeirence sanding discs are only half as aggressive as traditional sandpaper. In other words an 800 grit sanding disc equates to 1500 grit in traditional sandpaper

When questioning my good friend (and mentor in sanding) Kevin Brown about my findings he explained to me how you can do just as much damage using 3,000 grit discs as you can a lower grade. He was saying something about when using a higher grade disc, you have to make A LOT more passes. Doing this removes more clear coat then if you just went with a lower grade in the first place. I hate to put words in his mouth, but I think what he meant was by starting with a lower grade, less passes would be needed, thus less clear coat is actually removed. I can't say I comprehended everything he was saying, he was getting very excited talking about this and I was afraid he was going to hyperventilate and die, so I just agreed

I removed similiar dog scratches as to what the OP has posted just a few weeks ago. I wouldn't just post this information for the sake of raising my post count :D

Kevin is a member here. Would it be okay if I emailed him this thread so he can explain this for himself?

P.S. I heard you got married while I was away. Congratualations man !!!! :props:


Flash this is very interesting. I was thinking at first that maybe the 800 grit was a typo. I would be very interested in getting more info on the process you are talking about. This would be some great info to read!
 
Yep. 800 is what I would start with

If that works for you then I say go for it. I'll stick to what I wrote and recommended. That is,

Avoid sanding and if the truck is older and a daily driver work truck, just offer to improve the finish, don't promise to remove 100% of the scratches. Especially in the context of the OP's stated experience and arsenal of products and tools.

There's an old saying,

Use the least aggressive product to get the job done


That's a pretty good approach that's been working for a long time whether you're working on a show car or a daily driver and whether you're a seasoned professional or brand new to car detailing.



Kevin is a member here. Would it be okay if I emailed him this thread so he can explain this for himself?

I count Kevin as a very good friend. We've known each other since the early 1990's and in my how-to book I gave him credit for the KBM as I don't ever steal other people's work and claim it as my own. I make it a practice to give credit where credit is due. I don't see the same respect practiced in the online world since I've been in the online world but I can't take responsibility for other's actions, only my own.

By all means invite Kevin to explain your recommendation of starting with #800 grit discs or sandpaper on older, factory paint on a daily driver to a guy that's new to doing correction work. Kevin is a really smart and experienced detailer and everyone benefits from his insights and experience.

I would be surprised to see Kevin recommend using #800 grit sanding discs to the OP of this thread for this project but I'm always open to learning. Keep in mind, after using #800 grit sanding papers or discs you would still have to refine these sanding marks to at a minimum #1200 grit to use a product like M105 or M100, which are stated at being able to remove down to #1200 grit sanding marks on fresh paint.

So your process could look like this,

  1. Sand with #800 grit
  2. Sand with #1200 grit
  3. Machine Compound
  4. Machine Polish
All four of the above steps will remove a measurable amount of paint. Again, this is on a daily driver, probably a work truck by a guy that is new to detailing. I'm thinking just the expense of using premium quality products to do the above would cost more than what I recommended, that is just compound, polish and wax and educate the customer. Plus his customer might not want to pay for a project requiring sanding discs, a premium compound and polish.


Maybe a pro working very carefully with all the tools, pads and products could carefully do the work, especially if they taped off all the raised body lines and edges with a tape like the 3M Blue Vinyl Tape.

Paint tends to be thinner on edges and raised body lines. If a person didn't tape off these areas, the chance for a mistake would be even riskier. See examples in this thread except we used #1500 and #3000 grit Trizact discs.

1965 Mustang GT Fastback - Wetsanding - Live Broadcast

1965_Mustang_Wetsand_Autogeek_005.jpg


1965_Mustang_Wetsand_Autogeek_006.jpg





P.S. I heard you got married while I was away. Congratulations man !!!! :props:

Thank you. And yes, I did get married and life is good... You can see my lovely wife here...

A few wedding pictures - Mike & Stacy in Key West




:)
 
My cousin said he used 800 grit, but that was on a new painted car, with extra CC to spare. To remove "dirt" that got collected during the paint process. I said, "really!?" He said "yeah crazy huh" (probably more, but don't remember the exact conversation)

This job might be fixable/masked but way, way... to advanced from my experience/skill.

Even a DA Nano Skin Auto Scrub would scare me to put on this. (Lol not really, but that's how "bad" this is IMO)
 
I hate to put words in his mouth, but I think what he meant was by starting with a lower grade, less passes would be needed, thus less clear coat is actually removed. I can't say I comprehended everything he was saying,

Flash this is very interesting. I was thinking at first that maybe the 800 grit was a typo. I would be very interested in getting more info on the process you are talking about. This would be some great info to read!

No it was no typo. Maybe not exactly what Kevin was trying to explain to me, but it worked out beatifully on my friends Camry (thank you Jesus!)

If that works for you then I say go for it. I'll stick to what I wrote and recommended. That is,

Avoid sanding and if the truck is older and a daily driver work truck, just offer to improve the finish, don't promise to remove 100% of the scratches. Especially in the context of the OP's stated experience and arsenal of products and tools.

:)

I agree Mike. I've turned down a job were the owner wanted their 2012 King Ranch (daily driver) fully wetsanded just to remove a very small amount of orange peel. IMO it just wasn't worth it. After polishing it out and talking with the guy somemore he thanked me for not listening to him

What the OP posted though I don't see where you have much to lose. That thing looks TERRIBLE!

I've sent Kevin this thread. Hopefully in time he can write something out that we all might learn from....and that without doubt includes me

Your wife is HOT! How do ugly guys like us land such pretty girls? Best I can figure is they know we know we will never be able to do any better

:o
 
Thanks for all of the help guys. Here's the moment you've all been waiting for. :dblthumb2:

Started with this:
cxKGmMZ.jpg


After 4 section passes of UC:
LdtR02A.jpg


After 3 more section passes of UC:
VBCzq2x.jpg


Followed up with 2 section passes of CG AIO:
Mh2bItL.jpg


50/50 (I have no fancy swirl light) :o
n9z0AkQ.jpg


Afters:
oVpBdZh.jpg

BWSl6vU.jpg

Pg71TlK.jpg

tKF4it9.jpg


50/50 in the sun:
cUZKTWd.jpg


Mike,

Thanks for the advice. This was my first paint correction period. I feel confident now and people need to have confidence in their products. I'm very impressed by the UC and the AIO.

I'd say it's about 90-95% correction but you REALLY have to look for the scratches. Any of you AGer's could find it but to the normal customer/citizen, you won't see a thing.

Thanks again guys,

Frick :buffing::buffing::buffing:Im the MANIm the MANIm the MAN
 
Yep Mfrickman, great results!
So no wet sanding, Just compound?
Again Great job (props!)
 
No wetsanding.

-ONRWW'd the area with 4:1 QD.
-Clayed with Nanoskin Sponge
-Compound with Meg's UC with an orange LC CCS pad with my PC7424
-Applied CG AIO with green LC pad
-Final wipe with ONRWW 4:1

Primed my pads with the QD solution and just did like the Mike Phillips' articles and videos show. I think it turned out really good and took me 15 minutes.

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It didn't turn really good, it turned out awesome-ingly really great!

Again great job! it's night and day.
👏
 
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