Interesting thought .... Car Wash Soap

mg6045 said:
from what I understand, is that these soaps are only PH Nuetral AFTER they are diluted and mixed with the proper ratio of water.

The actual soap at full concentration in the bottle is NOT PH nuetral. It needs diluting. Thats just one thing to think about. as well as the PH level of your garden hose water. In most cases that's not PH neutral either.

(i may be wrong, but im confident this is the case, if not , please feel free to correct me)

also, any wash media is abrasive, which will and does remove wax when your washing. if there is no abrasion, your not washing anything off. and if its not very abrasive, your rubbing it with your hand , causing abrasion.

Anything further than this would just be theory, or speculation, so i'll end it there. And hopefully someone with chemical knowledge can answer this for sure.

P.S. - an easy solution to all of this would be for more advanced LSP's that are less sensitive to detergents. We are starting to see these LSP's arrive on the market, and imo, within 5 years from now, they will be as user friendly as the nicest carnuba wax's we have available now as far as application and being foolproof. Even for the most hamfisted Human being.
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I would hope that you are mixing soap with water :). I understand what you are saying about the pH level and the point about the wash media, but regardless if you are washing with Wolfgang, Pinnacle, Meg's, or Duragloss, if the soap is rated at pH 7 when mixed at the correct ratio then it should not strip wax. Duragloss products were designed to be "less sensitive" to detergents and have been around for a long, long time.

killrwheels@autogeek said:
---warning original post was from 2007 ---
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I understand but I have seen this posted on more than one occasion where someone said Duragloss Car Wash Concentrate strips LSP's. Your natural reaction is to defend Wolfgang/Pinnacle and mine is to defend Duragloss. :xyxthumbs:
 
When used at 1oz:1gal, DG 901 hasn't stripped any LSP IME.

I've been using this wash exclusively for over a year and a half. AT LEAST 100 washes; it's by far the slickest wash I've used.
 
Scott,

Your old post comes back to haunt us.

Ph is only one parameter of a product. Ph closer to 7 (neutral) MIGHT be preferable but doesn't mean that it's safe for a wax.

I use CG Citrus Wash and Gloss to strip wax before I polish and rewax. Is it perfect? heck no. Does it strip well? Yes. Does it strip all sealant?. Probably not. I would not use it as a maintenance car wash.

Do I like DG 901. I'm not sure but it is certainly a good car wash that doesn't seem to strip wax.. My favs right now are OC Blue 33, Opt Car Wash, and Ultima Car wash but I have not tried the WG, Pinnacle or DP car washes. I also liked Megs Mirror glaze and Gold Class washes which seemed to be fine with traditional carnauba washes.

Aint't this fun!
 
rwright said:
I would hope that you are mixing soap with water :). I understand what you are saying about the pH level and the point about the wash media, but regardless if you are washing with Wolfgang, Pinnacle, Meg's, or Duragloss, if the soap is rated at pH 7 when mixed at the correct ratio then it should not strip wax. Duragloss products were designed to be "less sensitive" to detergents and have been around for a long, long time.



I understand but I have seen this posted on more than one occasion where someone said Duragloss Car Wash Concentrate strips LSP's. Your natural reaction is to defend Wolfgang/Pinnacle and mine is to defend Duragloss. :xyxthumbs:
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lol, yeah i think i left out the sentence meaning that proper dilution is VERY important. I know when I first started out I always though more was better and used probably twice the wash soap that was necessary. I probably stripped wax just about every other wash. lol. I have a funny feeling that many folks that dont frequent the forums very much use this same behavior. Its just human nature to think more is better.. :)

I also should have said that even though soaps will not strip wax completely being PH neutral, the fact is that washing the car with even the mildest shampoo's does degrade your wax layer. In my mind that is a fact. soaps claim not to "strip" wax (they should say, "wont strip wax completely"), but washing and the soap's nature in itself will degrade it.
 
This discussion leads to the reason I'm so fond of DP Auto Bath. I feel that it's got good enough cleaning power and doesn't compromise my LSP (FWIW I do add a ~1/2 oz of DP RW&G to both rinse and soap buckets). The product description was just what I was looking for and in practice the product has been great for me. I bought a few 32oz bottles of the DP Auto Bath on BOGO right after the first time I tried it, which prematurely ended my soap-search for a while.

Bullet points from the description:

*A blend of lubricating oils and cleaning agents that both cleanse the paint and protect it

*DP Auto Bath Shampoo contains no soap or detergent. Alkaline cleaners like these can remove protective coatings and dull the finish

*It will not remove wax or sealant coatings

*Oils in the shampoo act as a lubricant to allow gritty contaminants to slide off the paint in the rinse water without scratching. These same oils “wet” the paint to create a brighter, shinier finish
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On another note, I use CG Citrus Wash and Clear but only in prep for polishing. IMO it's overkill for daily use and just "feels" like it strips LSP even at the higher dilution ratio. To me, if it can, it will (to some extent).

killrwheels@autogeek said:
---warning original post was from 2007 ---
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LOL... '07, I was wondering why this thread seemed like a reunion with a couple members who haven't been posting lately!
 
and im still useing the same shampoo from 07!!!! :xyxthumbs:pinnacle!!!!!
 
mg6045 said:
lol, yeah i think i left out the sentence meaning that proper dilution is VERY important. I know when I first started out I always though more was better and used probably twice the wash soap that was necessary. I probably stripped wax just about every other wash. lol. I have a funny feeling that many folks that dont frequent the forums very much use this same behavior. Its just human nature to think more is better.. :)
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In discussions about Optimum's soap with David G., increasing the soap (surfactant) concentration does not increase the stripping ability but just increases the pure cleaning ability. It has to do with the surfactant used in the soap.

I suspect it is when the pH increases (like with alkaline cleaning soaps like many all purpose cleaners) that the ability to strip more comes into play as you increase concentration.
 
Great post Al! I saw when you hammered that down over on the Optimum forum as well. Dr. G was speaking for Optimum car soap specifically right? I can't remember for sure.
 
Something to consider. Surfactants are typically "wetting agents" which generally means that they allow something that isn't particularly water soluble to be more water soluble. They can chemically break the bonds between molecules and surround the molecule so it can be wiped or washed away with various solvents. Oils and lubricants would be additional examples and they are not always highly soluble in water.

Some surfactants work better at specific pH and some contaminants may also "accept" the wetting agent better at a certain pH.

Just because something has a neutral pH doesn't necessarily mean that it will be more or less effective or more or less damaging. Pure water has a pH of 7 and is the best solvent on earth. Think what water does to steel.

Just food for thought.
 
That's why I just bought Dodo Wax Safe wash. It's one, if not the "purest" soap out there. It will not change the look of the LSP, and it's obviously wax friendly.
 
pinnacle is a joy to use.. love them coconut oils !!! so slick
 
See, this thread provided some good info. Thanks all.


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