A FLEX comparision: PE14 vs 3401

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Really great to see these side by side results where the only variable is the machine, Smack. rops: I am surprised to see how very similar the results are regardless of which machine you used. Thanks for taking the time to demonstrate this to us. Seeing is believing!

Thanks Richard! Glad you enjoyed the read. Thanks for commenting.

I wanted to put this together for a while now and finally had the chance to do it. Now we all know how these tools perform under the same conditions.

Remember the 3401 has the ability to spin wool pads as well if you would need even more cut.

smack 1st off....beautiful work!!! What a night and day difference for either machine. 2nd excellent review too! I have a Flex 3401 VRG IMO it is the BEST DA...PERIOD. As for the rotary I have never used and based on your review I probably will never need one because of the Flex 3401 being as close to a rotary.

Additionally, I am a KLUTZ so I would burn the paint off with a rotary...LOL.

Bottom line excellent review and beautiful work!

BUT, why such a great wax on a van????....LOL Your customer does not realize what a great wax he/she is getting!!!

Thank you for taking the time to comment! I see you enjoyed the article.

I agree with you! The 3401 is the best DA. It has almost the power of the rotary with the safety of the oscillation. As I mentioned before the 3401 can spin the Hybrid wool pad.

Also the 3401 can burn edges if your not careful although it won't do it as easily as the PE14 can.

I was recently chosen to review this wax (review completed) and wanted to showcase it again. It is a great Wax.

Cool test! I've wanted a PE14 for quite some time now...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Thanks Bob! The PE14 has no equal in the rotary field...

 

[281]

As always Mike, amazing work and great comparison photos! So tempted to add a PE14 to the arsenal. Thank you for taking the time to do a comparison :dblthumb2:

 

[VISITOR]

nice write-up. looks almost even, and if the rotary gave a slightly better finish, the flex DA probably could of achieve that in another pass if need be. now, can you do the same test on the other side with the rupes lhr21es and flex 3401?

 

[javip2k]

Mike: nice write up and nice final results. Thanks for sharing :goodpost:

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

As always Mike, amazing work and great comparison photos! So tempted to add a PE14 to the arsenal. Thank you for taking the time to do a comparison :dblthumb2:

Thanks James!

You need a PE in your life... It's that good.

nice write-up. looks almost even, and if the rotary gave a slightly better finish, the flex DA probably could of achieve that in another pass if need be. now, can you do the same test on the other side with the rupes lhr21es and flex 3401?

Thank you sir! These are two effectively capable machines.

Wanna send a RUPES over? I'd be more than happy to compare them.

Mike: nice write up and nice final results. Thanks for sharing :goodpost:

Thank you for reading and commenting. Glad you enjoyed it. rops:

 

[Tato]

Great comparison, Mike!

It's not always we see a side-by-side thread where the only variable is the polisher. This, in fact, makes your review unique in terms we can take 'true' conclusions from it.

Paired with quality and technologically advanced pads and polishes, DAs are becoming very capable tools more than ever. The increment of Smack's technique is another variable that may help the user getting the most from the possible results, in terms of both cutting and finishing abilities.

It also looks to me this technique will open your way to an hologram free rotary polishing as you improve it while using the PE-14 more and more.

What to say about this forced rotation tool? It won't underperform in front of a rotary tool. I'm glad to have mine (3401), use it often (most always!), and take advantage of the Smack's Technique to get the most from my results. As I stated earlier in your technique's thread, your ideas and recommendations were a true game changer for me, because it simply works - Every time.

I'd like hear more regarding the pressure you applied on the pad while using both machines. Also, if you can, talk a bit about arm movement speed.

IMO, this thread may have PE14 VS 3401 on it's title, but the conclusion may be something like PE14 + 3401.

It's noticeable both tools are high end and can achieve stunning results.

I mean, users of PE14 may benefit of 3401 polishing and finishing when working on 'finicky' paints. 3401 users may benefit of PE14 when the first step in mind is correcting 'damn hard' paint or if dealing with low grit sanding marks. 3401 may polish to a high gloss, but from what I read a skilled rotary user may jewel the finish to showroom quality even sharper using the rotary tool, leaving us with nothing less than endless manners to combine both tools.

By having both you can always benefit from the best each tool has to offer, on each specific situation.

I'd like to thank you very much for putting efforts taking your time in this write up.


Thanks for sharing,

Kind Regards.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Mike, you're the man. Thanks for all the time you put into helping on this forum.

I'm liking the hybrid pads a lot on the 3401. There was a general consensus from some big names in the industry that higher speeds are not necessary when using the 3401 for correction and/or polishing(speed 4 and below).

 

[Dr_Pain]

WHY OH WHY!!! Why do you have to show me another machine I don't have in my arsenal.

Now maybe I read it wrong but I don't see where you've declared a clear winner? Both took the same amount of time and within statistical variance produced the same results. The rotary has a little harder learning curve but produces no vibration whereas the DA is a little safer in the hands of a newb..... am I summing it up right?

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Great comparison, Mike!

It's not always we see a side-by-side thread where the only variable is the polisher. This, in fact, makes your review unique in terms we can take 'true' conclusions from it.

Paired with quality and technologically advanced pads and polishes, DAs are becoming very capable tools more than ever. The increment of Smack's technique is another variable that may help the user getting the most from the possible results, in terms of both cutting and finishing abilities.

It also looks to me this technique will open your way to an hologram free rotary polishing as you improve it while using the PE-14 more and more.

What to say about this forced rotation tool? It won't underperform in front of a rotary tool. I'm glad to have mine (3401), use it often (most always!), and take advantage of the Smack's Technique to get the most from my results. As I stated earlier in your technique's thread, your ideas and recommendations were a true game changer for me, because it simply works - Every time.

I'd like hear more regarding the pressure you applied on the pad while using both machines. Also, if you can, talk a bit about arm movement speed.

IMO, this thread may have PE14 VS 3401 on it's title, but the conclusion may be something like PE14 + 3401.

It's noticeable both tools are high end and can achieve stunning results.

I mean, users of PE14 may benefit of 3401 polishing and finishing when working on 'finicky' paints. 3401 users may benefit of PE14 when the first step in mind is correcting 'damn hard' paint or if dealing with low grit sanding marks. 3401 may polish to a high gloss, but from what I read a skilled rotary user may jewel the finish to showroom quality even sharper using the rotary tool, leaving us with nothing less than endless manners to combine both tools.

By having both you can always benefit from the best each tool has to offer, on each specific situation.

I'd like to thank you very much for putting efforts taking your time in this write up.


Thanks for sharing,

Kind Regards.

Thank you for the kind words Rafael!!

I wanted to do this write up in a style that would allow the user to make their own judgement on the results and not take my word for it. That's why I did not mention any positives or negatives or say why one is better than the other.

DA tools have really come along way and with the Hybrid power of the 3401, (Forced Oscillation) you can really achieve some outstanding results. And with my technique that I developed and shared you can take the performance of the 3401 to another level.

This technique also works just as well on the PE14 as the 3401 allowing you to switch between either machine that much easier as everything stays the same minus the tool itself.

Pressure, speed, passes, etc were the same for either machine. I start briefly on speed 1 to quickly spread the product, set the machine to speed 3 and proceed to make 2-3 moderate to heavy passes and slowly ease up my pressure so by the time I get to the 6th pass I will use just the weight of the machine.

As you have said that was a great way to put it. It wasn't so much one machine vs. the other but more of what each are capable of. One way to really effectively use them would be the PE14 for correction and the 3401 polishing work for a sure fire 1-2 knockout punch for deadly accurate work without fear of holograms.

Of course you can always go back for a 3rd step with SF4500 and a finer pad for enhanced clarity.

Thank you for taking the time for this incredible response Rafael. I truly appreciate that.

Best,
Mike

Mike, you're the man. Thanks for all the time you put into helping on this forum.

I'm liking the hybrid pads a lot on the 3401. There was a general consensus from some big names in the industry that higher speeds are not necessary when using the 3401 for correction and/or polishing(speed 4 and below).

Thanks Mark! I enjoy helping out here on the forum where and when I can.

As you know and see I love the Hybrids on either machine. Hmmmm, didn't know about the general consensus.

WHY OH WHY!!! Why do you have to show me another machine I don't have in my arsenal.

Now maybe I read it wrong but I don't see where you've declared a clear winner? Both took the same amount of time and within statistical variance produced the same results. The rotary has a little harder learning curve but produces no vibration whereas the DA is a little safer in the hands of a newb..... am I summing it up right?

Hahahaha. Claude, the PE14 has zero vibration when the pad runs true...

I didn't want to declare a winner. I wanted to leave that for the viewer to judge without my input. So this one is your call.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Hmmmm, didn't know about the general consensus.

I'm not trying to discredit your technique in any way. You're the first person that mentioned higher speeds are not needed to get heavy correction with the 3401. It's ironic because there was just a 3-day NXT course at Meguiar's last week and I was told the general consensus from some big names felt higher speeds are not necessary(correcting & finishing) with the 3401.

However, I THINK the "smack technique" may be limited to using Menzerna polishes. I could be wrong....

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

I'm not trying to discredit your technique in any way. You're the first person that mentioned higher speeds are not needed to get heavy correction with the 3401. It's ironic because there was just a 3-day NXT course at Meguiar's last week and I was told the general consensus from some big names felt higher speeds are not necessary(correcting & finishing) with the 3401.

However, I THINK the "smack technique" may be limited to using Menzerna polishes. I could be wrong....

I didn't take it that way at all Mark. I was just stating that I have never heard of that general consensus before.

The "Smack Technique" is geared for Menzerna products. If you look at the rotary application speeds on FG400 and SF4000, it says to run the compound between 900-1200 rpm and the polish from 1500-2100 rpm. My technique has adapted these speeds into Flex speeds hence 3 for correction and 5 for polishing.

It has been quite a while since I have used the Meguiar's twins on the Flex. I would have to look up what the speeds are for them. I also think that the Meg's twins benefit from the KBM method as SMAT technology behaves differently that DAT products.

Did you attend the NXT course?

 

[Andr3wilson]

Great post Mike!!! Love those hybrid pads.

 

[Rsurfer]

The "Smack Technique" is geared for Menzerna products. If you look at the rotary application speeds on FG400 and SF4000, it says to run the compound between 900-1200 rpm and the polish from 1500-2100 rpm. My technique has adapted these speeds into Flex speeds hence 3 for correction and 5 for polishing.



Not trying to give you a hard time, but how can you compare a rotary at 2100 rpm to a Flex DA that is spinning at 500-600 rpm?

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Great post Mike!!! Love those hybrid pads.

Thanks Andrew!!!!

Not trying to give you a hard time, but how can you compare a rotary at 2100 rpm to a Flex DA that is spinning at 500-600 rpm?

Honestly you can't. That's why I have come up with my technique on getting the most from FG400 on the 3401 which seems to translate really well to the PE14 and vice versa. Same goes for SF4000 on either machine.

This test was done using my technique I developed and performing the exact same steps on either machine and documenting the outcome. Sure on the bottles of Menzerna they say for rotary use and I adapted them to work on the 3401.

If you crank up the 3401 to speed 6 with FG400 in an effort to try and replicate the rotary speed of the PE14 you will see that FG400 quickly loses workability and starts to dust quite badly. With my method of using speed 3 on the 3401, this becomes its sweet spot in terms of performance.

Hope this answers your question.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

The "Smack Technique" is geared for Menzerna products. If you look at the rotary application speeds on FG400 and SF4000, it says to run the compound between 900-1200 rpm and the polish from 1500-2100 rpm. My technique has adapted these speeds into Flex speeds hence 3 for correction and 5 for polishing.

That's what I thought. Makes sense!

I did not attend NXT, but spoke with someone who did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, you're the man. Thanks for all the time you put into helping on this forum.

I agree. He's always posting well thought out articles that help others and I think that is the the goal of this forum and my own personal goal.

High speeds for the Flex for correction work?


I thought I've read numerous times that Mike uses and suggests medium speeds for cutting like the 4 setting?

Here's a quote from his recent article on the Flex 3401

My technique concerning the 3401, Menzerna products, and Hybrid pads

My methods when using Menzerna products, Hybrid pads, driven by the Flex XC 3401 VRG

FG400 and cutting pad speed 3-4

S4000 and polishing pad speed 4-5

And that mimics what I recently wrote in an offline project.

To be honest, I think Mike Pennington said it best when he shared his analogy to polishing paint by using a graphic equalizer.





The Graphic Equalizer Analogy to Polishing Paint


Mike Pennington, the Director of Training for Meguiar's, gave me this analogy a long time ago so I want to give him credit for it because it's a good analogy BUT you have to be old enough to remember Graphic Equalizers.

Graphic Equalizers

The analogy being that you can adjust your pad, product, tool and technique just like you can adjust music using a graphic equalizer and when everything is dialed-in perfect for the paint you're working on you'll get the results you're looking for.

It does mean sometimes playing around a little to find the perfect combination of products and procedures kind of like adjusting a graphic equalizer for a single song so it sounds perfect to your ears.

When everything is right... you'll make beautiful music or in this case you create a show car finish.

Of course in order to experiment it means you need to have more than one product in your arsenal of detailing products.

Usually, a good compound, a couple of polishes with correction ability, a finishing polish and some LSP's, this could include cleaner/waxes and finishing waxes.

Clay, Car Wash, Microfiber Towels and if you work by machine then a variety of buffing pads and if you work by hand then a variety of hand applicator pads.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Nice article Mike...

I'm sure your insights will help and inspire others into the future.


:dblthumb2:

 

[Eric M.]

Great article! Thanks for taking the time to do this. For some reason I can't see the pics anymore?

 

[David at LC Pads]

Great write up Mike!

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Nice article Mike...

I'm sure your insights will help and inspire others into the future.


:dblthumb2:

Thanks for taking the time to comment on my thread Mike. :xyxthumbs:

I hope this will inspire others and not be afraid of the rotary polisher.

Great article! Thanks for taking the time to do this. For some reason I can't see the pics anymore?

Thank you sir! Well my photobucket account has exceeded its bandwidth limit due to the overwhelming views on this thread and my Synergy thread. Have to wait until it resets itself.

Great write up Mike!

Thanks Dave!!!!