Andr3wilson
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- May 16, 2012
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Always wanted to ask
- Thread starter Wes Bremec
- Start date
FUNX650
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- Dec 1, 2010
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Even though the Highline Meter II is Chinese-sourced...
In the scenario you have presented:
That's from whom I'd purchase an EPTG.
Also: Warranty-work is a factor.
Are you "posilutely-sure" you won't be purchasing a:
Defelsko PosiTector 200 Series (Advanced)...
That I may wish to borrow every now and then?!?!
Bob
addysdaddy
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- Jun 13, 2012
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I'm getting the feeling ur conspiring with Nick to shrink my wallet Bob. haha. So to answer your question, I'm positive I won't be getting the Defelsko. And thanks for the opinion, I was leaning a bit that way even though several forum members have been very happy with the knock off.Even though the Highline Meter II is Chinese-sourced...
In the scenario you have presented:
That's from whom I'd purchase an EPTG.
Also: Warranty-work is a factor.
Are you "posilutely-sure" you won't be purchasing a:
Defelsko PosiTector 200 Series (Advanced)...
That I may wish to borrow every now and then?!?!
Bob
Ryry11
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- Oct 4, 2012
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This thread and responses are mainly concerned with a FULL correction, correct? I'd like to flip it a little bit and ask if anyone has any insight into this: let's assume most of us on here correct and maintain our finishes on our personal rides and keep them looking stellar using proper washing and drying techniques. However, as we all know, those swirls and scratches are inevitable and WILL happen. That being said, does anyone know or have an opinion on just polishing with a mild to moderate polish (I.e. sf4500 or m205) and how often that could be done? Obviously all the variables are still in play and there is no "definite" answer, but just curious what you guys feel. The rupes diamond ultra fine gel is touted as being able to be used anytime for a light polish because it removes no measurable clear, so obviously isn't providing much correction, but made me wonder if you were to use a very fine polish how often you could.
addysdaddy
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- Jun 13, 2012
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A good question that I believe can only be answered with the use of a paint gauge meter
Andr3wilson
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Good question!
Personally my Lexus has a soft, acrylic clear coat. I do a "maintenance" polish to it once every 3-4 of months. Try as hard as we all want, but mar free washing and drying is nearly impossible.
I use SF4500 on a white pad with a 3401. This has plenty to remove any light marring or scuffing without really thinning the CC. Quite often I do not even bother to measure with this type of polishing because it does not take off enough CC to even show up on the EPTG. Also because it is my personal car, I know how thick it is already.
My feeling (even though I have not used them) is 205/Rupes Ultra Fine/Finishing polishes will be pretty much the same! Here is an example of my maintenance polish with SF4500 on a white pad.
Before:
After:
No change in thickness on the EPTG
Ryry11
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- Oct 4, 2012
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Good question!
Personally my Lexus has a soft, acrylic clear coat. I do a "maintenance" polish to it once every 3-4 of months. Try as hard as we all want, but mar free washing and drying is nearly impossible.
I use SF4500 on a white pad with a 3401. This has plenty to remove any light marring or scuffing without really thinning the CC. Quite often I do not even bother to measure with this type of polishing because it does not take off enough CC to even show up on the EPTG. Also because it is my personal car, I know how thick it is already.
My feeling (even though I have not used them) is 205/Rupes Ultra Fine/Finishing polishes will be pretty much the same! Here is an example of my maintenance polish with SF4500 on a white pad.
Before:
After:
No change in thickness on the EPTG
That's awesome! Ty for the answer! I was curious about 4500's ability to remove marring and scratching like that. I haven't had a chance to do a polish with it due to the weather, but bought it figuring it'd be a great maintenance polish. I wondered how much correction/clear it would provide/remove. I like the idea of being able to do a gentle maintenance polish when needed with a product like that and know it won't kill my clear, even though it is gentle.
ShaunD
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- Nov 19, 2010
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Just like there is no blanket statement that for how to polish every paint system out there, there is not blanket statement as to how many times you can safely remove a minimum amount of paint on every vehicle out there. You have to do your research on your particular car and know its history and know the numbers that most people are getting on the average car like yours. Having a good eye for depth of defects and using a PTG is going to help as much as anything. If you are that concerned I would invest in a EPTG andbfind the lowest thickness numbers on each section/panel and try to keep your avaerage thickness readings as faraway from those low readings as possible.
From my experience very recently, you will remove 3-10 microns with the average compounding step, this doesn't include what you CAN remove with a high speed rotary and heavy cut wool pad. Obviously if you try you can remove unnecessary amounts of paint. Mike Phillips has an article/thread he made that shows how much film is removed for each step of paint correction from sanding to polishing steps. For myself I have seen as little as 10 microns removed after wetsanding(2000 grit to 4000) and compounding. Done properly you can remove less film with sanding vs. compounding to remove deep defects.
The numbers I just pulled from my truck hood are 105-132 on a spot that had wetsanding done and on the side mirroring that where I have only compounded and polished about 3-4 times the reading are about 140-167. The 105 spot that has been wetsanded is where I tried to knock down a deep scratch that's below the clear. That spot slid lighter than the surround paint which tells me I went too far. So fornmy truck averaging about 175 for the factory paint, I will try to keep that paint away from the 120 micron range. Even with a few thin spots in CC I don't have any failures in the factory paint yet; my truck is a 2001 S10(pewter colored paint), born in LA.
This may give you some insight into average paint thickness and film removal. Not scientific but a rough idea.
Just a comparison of different OEM paint; my neighbor's 2003 F150 reads less than 100microns average thickness. I polished the truck once probably removing no more than an average of 5 microns of CC(this is a guess as I didn't have PTG when I first polished it). That said he has no CC failure yet and it has probably sat outside its whole life and he uses a brush to wash it even after I advised him not to; and was the main reason his truck needed to be polished in the first place. I'd guess his truck probably started with about an average of120-130 microns of TPT when it was new. Anyone with an f150 from the 90s may be able to verify for me on that.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using AG Online
From my experience very recently, you will remove 3-10 microns with the average compounding step, this doesn't include what you CAN remove with a high speed rotary and heavy cut wool pad. Obviously if you try you can remove unnecessary amounts of paint. Mike Phillips has an article/thread he made that shows how much film is removed for each step of paint correction from sanding to polishing steps. For myself I have seen as little as 10 microns removed after wetsanding(2000 grit to 4000) and compounding. Done properly you can remove less film with sanding vs. compounding to remove deep defects.
The numbers I just pulled from my truck hood are 105-132 on a spot that had wetsanding done and on the side mirroring that where I have only compounded and polished about 3-4 times the reading are about 140-167. The 105 spot that has been wetsanded is where I tried to knock down a deep scratch that's below the clear. That spot slid lighter than the surround paint which tells me I went too far. So fornmy truck averaging about 175 for the factory paint, I will try to keep that paint away from the 120 micron range. Even with a few thin spots in CC I don't have any failures in the factory paint yet; my truck is a 2001 S10(pewter colored paint), born in LA.
This may give you some insight into average paint thickness and film removal. Not scientific but a rough idea.
Just a comparison of different OEM paint; my neighbor's 2003 F150 reads less than 100microns average thickness. I polished the truck once probably removing no more than an average of 5 microns of CC(this is a guess as I didn't have PTG when I first polished it). That said he has no CC failure yet and it has probably sat outside its whole life and he uses a brush to wash it even after I advised him not to; and was the main reason his truck needed to be polished in the first place. I'd guess his truck probably started with about an average of120-130 microns of TPT when it was new. Anyone with an f150 from the 90s may be able to verify for me on that.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using AG Online
oldmodman
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- Sep 25, 2007
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In answer to a previous question the polish that I was using was a two stage process.
Meguiars #83 with their maroon foam "scouring pad" then Meguiar's #82 with their soft foam finishing pad.
Remember, that this was back in the early 90's until it started to show clear coat failure in 2009
Since that time I have switched almost entirely to Menzerna polishes and Lake Country foam pads.
Meguiars #83 with their maroon foam "scouring pad" then Meguiar's #82 with their soft foam finishing pad.
Remember, that this was back in the early 90's until it started to show clear coat failure in 2009
Since that time I have switched almost entirely to Menzerna polishes and Lake Country foam pads.
WRXINXS
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- Dec 5, 2011
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So using M205 or SF4500 would not remove very much clear coat? I just used M205 on soft clear with a LC white pad and wondered how much I took off.
I have a EPG coming in so soon I will be able to tell for sure.
How about for instance if I wanted to maintain with SF4500 or Optimum Finish Polish on a black LC pad. Would that remove much on soft clear coat paint?
Also, I guess rocker panel (same thing as door jamb?) may not be the best place to test original factory paint thickness and I should look for a place that the buffer may have not been able to get to?
Drew
I have a EPG coming in so soon I will be able to tell for sure.
How about for instance if I wanted to maintain with SF4500 or Optimum Finish Polish on a black LC pad. Would that remove much on soft clear coat paint?
Also, I guess rocker panel (same thing as door jamb?) may not be the best place to test original factory paint thickness and I should look for a place that the buffer may have not been able to get to?
Drew
Andr3wilson
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Well I cannot speak for Opti polishes (never used them yet) but as for 4500. I do not know of a gauge (i am sure somewhere, some one has something) that could read how much you have taken off. On a EPTG, 4500 will not change the reading (too much margin of error and not fine enough measurement). Maybe .2, .4 of a micron? The previous pics on my Lexus with 4500 on a white pad did not change the thickness. That car has soft CC (600 gsm mf can mar it)
As for EPTG's, you have to remember thermal expansion to deal with. Take a measurement on cold paint, compound heavy and polish then measure right after, you will have almost no change. This comes to the fact as it heats up, it expands. Always measure on equal temps to get accurate readings.
As for taking measurements. I find the door jams are good to set a benchmark; ie no thinner than whats there. I find near the wiper spindles, badging, spoilers, above the licence plate or behind the licence plate are great places to get an idea of what it started with.
What do you mean by harm? If you mean by no abrasion or removal you need to look at glazes, waxes, and sealants.
Pretty much anything can harm the paint if used incorrectly.
TH3M B0N3Z
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- Jan 6, 2013
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When I first got into machine polishing, I wondered how many times I could polish the paint and get away with it. It wasn't until I watched Junkman's paint polishing videos where I learned that I need to polish once and then maintain. Since then, which has been several months, I started using the 2 bucket system with grit guards along with the foam gun and 2 wash mitts. It was odd at first because I wasn't used to using so many gadgets and extra buckets and mitts during my wash, but once I got a system going, it's just become second nature and I never stray from it. Well, I did wash my car today and didn't bother with the foam gun because I just washed my car on Sunday, lol. Had a crappy day at work and I needed some therapy... washing my car helped.
Anyway, once I started using the foam gun and 2 buckets and all of that, I realized that I was truly maintaining my paint and I really didn't need to polish anymore other than a spot or two here and there. And then that particular car visited the body shop one last time for some corrective repairs and they washed the car when I asked them not to... totally swirled the paint. I was annoyed to almost no end. Funny how a body shop with the words "Pro Detailing" on their sign can mess up beautiful paint in one wash. Don't get me completely wrong, they've painted parts of my car twice and it looked awesome, but the way they washed the car made all sorts of swirls. That heap is gone, anyway.
I've kinda strayed from the point. I basically learned that I need to maintain the paint. You can polish all you want, but the way the paint is maintained by washing and drying can make or break the whole detail.